Super Unleaded: Duty reduction
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From: 5 beats 4 - RS3 Rulez!!!
Jza,
Did you EVER go to school!? Can you read!? Can you count (beyond your fingers and toes!!!!!!!)
Obviously your answer is NO to all of these!!!!!
Arguments sake each litre is 80p. On that 80p YOU are paying the government 64p in TAX (approx). Which means between the seller and producer, they have to split a MASSIVE 16p!!!!!! W O W
Nobody is getting het up, you are the one who has first made perosonal remarks!!! WE are just stating facts. Do you want me to email you the calculations I performed and a text book on SIMPLE arithmetic!!!!!!
It is a known FACT, the oil companys do not make humungus profits on petrol sales and this discussion is about petrol. So your point that they make millions in other areas, is no concern & totally irrelevant here!!!!!!!!! So because they make profit else where, are they supposed to sell us petrol for nothing then!!!!!!
It has also been stated WHY the oil companies only bought the price down by the amount they did!!
So not only do you not check your facts out before dissing everybody, but you don't even read the facts that are posted for your benefit!!!!
Before you start giving someone the "Big 'un" make sure they are not a Moderator first!!!
Shaun.
Did you EVER go to school!? Can you read!? Can you count (beyond your fingers and toes!!!!!!!)
Obviously your answer is NO to all of these!!!!!
Arguments sake each litre is 80p. On that 80p YOU are paying the government 64p in TAX (approx). Which means between the seller and producer, they have to split a MASSIVE 16p!!!!!! W O W
Nobody is getting het up, you are the one who has first made perosonal remarks!!! WE are just stating facts. Do you want me to email you the calculations I performed and a text book on SIMPLE arithmetic!!!!!!
It is a known FACT, the oil companys do not make humungus profits on petrol sales and this discussion is about petrol.
So your point that they make millions in other areas, is no concern & totally irrelevant here!!!!!!!!! So because they make profit else where, are they supposed to sell us petrol for nothing then!!!!!! It has also been stated WHY the oil companies only bought the price down by the amount they did!!
So not only do you not check your facts out before dissing everybody, but you don't even read the facts that are posted for your benefit!!!!
Before you start giving someone the "Big 'un" make sure they are not a Moderator first!!!
Shaun.
Jza, the point is that in comparison the amount the oil companies get is very small compared to the government. The fact they make huge amounts of money internationally does not affect this fact.
Why is it these companies should charge less in the UK, than the rest of the world for the same product? It is hardly their fault that those in charge of the country use it as a means of topping up their finances.
Yes, I bought my car knowing the fuel economy would be shocking, and in all honesty if I had known how far the used values of Imprezas were going to fall in advance I would not have bought one.
[edited to say I had started typing this before Shaun nipped in and posted the same thing before me ]
[This message has been edited by Robertio (edited 08 March 2001).]
Why is it these companies should charge less in the UK, than the rest of the world for the same product? It is hardly their fault that those in charge of the country use it as a means of topping up their finances.
Yes, I bought my car knowing the fuel economy would be shocking, and in all honesty if I had known how far the used values of Imprezas were going to fall in advance I would not have bought one.
[edited to say I had started typing this before Shaun nipped in and posted the same thing before me
][This message has been edited by Robertio (edited 08 March 2001).]
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Orville:
<B>It amazes me how many people complain about fuel prices and then buy a brande new car that only averages 20mpg. If everyone was so worried about paying 80-90p per litre for fuel, why do we not all drive fuel efficient cars. [/quote]
I've just bought a 330d and save myself £300 per month on fuel alone
<B>It amazes me how many people complain about fuel prices and then buy a brande new car that only averages 20mpg. If everyone was so worried about paying 80-90p per litre for fuel, why do we not all drive fuel efficient cars. [/quote]
I've just bought a 330d and save myself £300 per month on fuel alone
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jza:
<B>GaryC and Shaun,
The two of you should go on TV - so i could turn the ****ing thing off!
You boring sad old women!!! - getting all het up in defence of the Billions of $ profit making Oil companies!!!!
I just pointed out that oil companies make huge profits - and should not be looked on as the "good guys" in all this!! They screw us just like the government!!! And they could have cut oil prices but made a token jesture. They could always reduce there huge profits by lowering the price if they wanted to - but they dont as they are in this to make money!!!!
As you will see i made no political comments in my post - as enough had been said on the matter. We get screwed by everyone on petrol! I dont disagree with that!!! So dont label me in any political sense ok!!!
Jza[/quote]
You must be a labia party member.
If the oil companies make 2p per litre profit how do you suggest they reduce prices??? Do you think they should make a loss on every litre sold?? Wake up and smell the bull****.
Oil companies profit........2p (profit in return for work)
Petrol retailers profit.....2p (profit in return for work)
New Labias profit..........62p (profit in return for f**k all)
On who's door do YOU think there is room for price cutting?
YOu are either a Labia party member, or the sort of dip-**** that votes them in
PS your elbow is the point where your arm bends, halfway between your shoulder and your wrist. Your **** is the one at the top of your legs - where you seem to talk out of
<B>GaryC and Shaun,
The two of you should go on TV - so i could turn the ****ing thing off!
You boring sad old women!!! - getting all het up in defence of the Billions of $ profit making Oil companies!!!!
I just pointed out that oil companies make huge profits - and should not be looked on as the "good guys" in all this!! They screw us just like the government!!! And they could have cut oil prices but made a token jesture. They could always reduce there huge profits by lowering the price if they wanted to - but they dont as they are in this to make money!!!!
As you will see i made no political comments in my post - as enough had been said on the matter. We get screwed by everyone on petrol! I dont disagree with that!!! So dont label me in any political sense ok!!!
Jza[/quote]
You must be a labia party member.
If the oil companies make 2p per litre profit how do you suggest they reduce prices??? Do you think they should make a loss on every litre sold?? Wake up and smell the bull****.
Oil companies profit........2p (profit in return for work)
Petrol retailers profit.....2p (profit in return for work)
New Labias profit..........62p (profit in return for f**k all)
On who's door do YOU think there is room for price cutting?
YOu are either a Labia party member, or the sort of dip-**** that votes them in
PS your elbow is the point where your arm bends, halfway between your shoulder and your wrist. Your **** is the one at the top of your legs - where you seem to talk out of
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Shaun:
<B>
Before you start giving someone the "Big 'un" make sure they are not a Moderator first!!!
[/quote]
YEAH...do not mess with 'The Moderators'
We'll be back.....
<B>
Before you start giving someone the "Big 'un" make sure they are not a Moderator first!!!
[/quote]
YEAH...do not mess with 'The Moderators'
We'll be back.....
'Let just close our schools, hospitals, sack the army and get petrol for 20pence per ltr', why? Petrol is taxed for environmental reasons (so we are told), not to fund areas which our taxes are supposed to cover. If that is where the money is going, then why should only those who buy petrol paying for it?
'Alternative - let's get 20p per ltr and increase rate of tax to 60p & 70p in the £.' Being a bit melodramatic aren't we? But yes, if the money is being spent on the above then the national tax rates should be adjusted to cover it.
'Alternative - let's get 20p per ltr and increase rate of tax to 60p & 70p in the £.' Being a bit melodramatic aren't we? But yes, if the money is being spent on the above then the national tax rates should be adjusted to cover it.
I often laugh at people who say that the oil companies raise the price of oil 
Oil is actually traded in the world market, so the producers can't fix a price, they sell at what the buyers are prepared to pay. If no one is buying, then there is a glut of oil, and prices drop - like they did early last year. When there is high demand, buyers out-bid each other in the market place, and prices rise...
What the producers can do, is control the level of production. In 1999, when crude was trading at about $10 per barrel, most of the UK oil platforms were running at a loss. Most cost around $14 - $16 per barrel to operate when all the costs are added up.
Think of it this way. A lot of the UK oil platforms cost around £1 billion to make and install. All of this money came from bank loans, which have to paid back over the years. Don't even start to work out the interest payments!!
Oil and gas are extracted from the ground (usually several thousand feet below the surface of the sea bed) at high pressure and temperaure, and need special processing to remove all the water (in some cases 95% or more of volume extracted is water!) and other impurities and toxins (such as H2S).
You need from 70 - 400 people on board on a full time basis to operate. Commuting costs are also higher than most other industries
The government of course extracts huge amounts of tax (petroleum revenue tax) from the oil companies for simply producing the oil in the first place. I can't remember, but I think it's about 75% or so, leaving companies to pay for everything else and make a profit out of the remaining 25%. Oh and they pay their corporation tax out opf the remaining 25% as well!
Once extracted, the oil has to be either stored, or pumped through a 100+ mile pipeline to onshore (for which the pipeline owners charge a levvy of course, which isn't cheap either!). It thens gets delivered to refinieries for processing, before eventually being delivered as petrol to the garage forecourt.
This fuel is delivered at a cost of about 14 pence per litre to the
garage (depending on the price of crude oil). The government then adds about 600% tax and VAT to this (85% of the final price is tax), bringing it up to about 76p per litre which we pay now.
Compare this to a litre of milk, which costs about the same, or even a bit more in some shops! No high costs involved with production, or any serious risks due to hazardous materials etc. No big processing costs (a quick boil for a few seconds before cooling and bottling), and it's usually sold within about 100 miles or so of where it is produced. The government doesn't add a
600% tax to it, or take the proceeds of 75% of their milk production, just for the right to produce milk.
Put into perspective, petrol doesn't seem that expensive when compared to milk. Perhaps we should all start a capmaing for cheaper milk
If you think about things in a different way, before the UK became self sufficient in oil, income tax was at 33% for basic rate payers, and very high for higher tax payers (about 80% or higher I think). Now the basic rate is about 20-23%, and higher rate is 40%. They have been able to do this over
the years using the tens of billions from the oil industry, and increased taxes on
fuel.
In the US, taxes in general are much higher, but fuel is taxed a lot less. As a high fuel user, I would be better off paying higher tax and lower fuel costs, but those without cars would be way better off with the way things are (except when you think that public transport costs could be reduced significantly if the fuel taxes were reduced).
I think I've gone on for long enough. It's time for something to eat!
John
Oil is actually traded in the world market, so the producers can't fix a price, they sell at what the buyers are prepared to pay. If no one is buying, then there is a glut of oil, and prices drop - like they did early last year. When there is high demand, buyers out-bid each other in the market place, and prices rise...What the producers can do, is control the level of production. In 1999, when crude was trading at about $10 per barrel, most of the UK oil platforms were running at a loss. Most cost around $14 - $16 per barrel to operate when all the costs are added up.
Think of it this way. A lot of the UK oil platforms cost around £1 billion to make and install. All of this money came from bank loans, which have to paid back over the years. Don't even start to work out the interest payments!!
Oil and gas are extracted from the ground (usually several thousand feet below the surface of the sea bed) at high pressure and temperaure, and need special processing to remove all the water (in some cases 95% or more of volume extracted is water!) and other impurities and toxins (such as H2S).
You need from 70 - 400 people on board on a full time basis to operate. Commuting costs are also higher than most other industries
The government of course extracts huge amounts of tax (petroleum revenue tax) from the oil companies for simply producing the oil in the first place. I can't remember, but I think it's about 75% or so, leaving companies to pay for everything else and make a profit out of the remaining 25%. Oh and they pay their corporation tax out opf the remaining 25% as well!
Once extracted, the oil has to be either stored, or pumped through a 100+ mile pipeline to onshore (for which the pipeline owners charge a levvy of course, which isn't cheap either!). It thens gets delivered to refinieries for processing, before eventually being delivered as petrol to the garage forecourt.
This fuel is delivered at a cost of about 14 pence per litre to the
garage (depending on the price of crude oil). The government then adds about 600% tax and VAT to this (85% of the final price is tax), bringing it up to about 76p per litre which we pay now.
Compare this to a litre of milk, which costs about the same, or even a bit more in some shops! No high costs involved with production, or any serious risks due to hazardous materials etc. No big processing costs (a quick boil for a few seconds before cooling and bottling), and it's usually sold within about 100 miles or so of where it is produced. The government doesn't add a
600% tax to it, or take the proceeds of 75% of their milk production, just for the right to produce milk.
Put into perspective, petrol doesn't seem that expensive when compared to milk. Perhaps we should all start a capmaing for cheaper milk
If you think about things in a different way, before the UK became self sufficient in oil, income tax was at 33% for basic rate payers, and very high for higher tax payers (about 80% or higher I think). Now the basic rate is about 20-23%, and higher rate is 40%. They have been able to do this over
the years using the tens of billions from the oil industry, and increased taxes on
fuel.
In the US, taxes in general are much higher, but fuel is taxed a lot less. As a high fuel user, I would be better off paying higher tax and lower fuel costs, but those without cars would be way better off with the way things are (except when you think that public transport costs could be reduced significantly if the fuel taxes were reduced).
I think I've gone on for long enough. It's time for something to eat!
John
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My suggestions were extreme.
But makes the point, when asking for Tax cuts remember to do one of the following to fund it. Cut services or fund it through increased national debt or put a bit of petrol onto the economy and get growth upto 5%+ (Lawson style).
This is the main debate between the two political parties at the moment.
But makes the point, when asking for Tax cuts remember to do one of the following to fund it. Cut services or fund it through increased national debt or put a bit of petrol onto the economy and get growth upto 5%+ (Lawson style).
This is the main debate between the two political parties at the moment.
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One word "Surplus"
I love it when people believe the politicians rantings about "cutting tax means less hospitals, schools, blah, blah, blah" has no-one ever heard of emotional blackmail! LOL
Old Fatty Brown has a massive surplus so by cutting petrol tax he is not actually <I>losing</I> anything (although he likes to make people think he is) just dipping into his 18 billion quid war chest a tiny little bit.
Labour? What a bunch of *****
Political moi? Never
I love it when people believe the politicians rantings about "cutting tax means less hospitals, schools, blah, blah, blah" has no-one ever heard of emotional blackmail! LOL
Old Fatty Brown has a massive surplus so by cutting petrol tax he is not actually <I>losing</I> anything (although he likes to make people think he is
) just dipping into his 18 billion quid war chest a tiny little bit.Labour? What a bunch of *****
Political moi? Never
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Yup I do, and each year the "surplus" has grown.....how can this happen in any other way than by increasing tax?
Edited cos I have been at work far toooooo long and it has made me a bit fik
[This message has been edited by Weaver (edited 08 March 2001).]
Edited cos I have been at work far toooooo long and it has made me a bit fik
[This message has been edited by Weaver (edited 08 March 2001).]
I have no problem with petrol duty being used to improve the transport system, or cut the national debt. What I do not agree with is using it to cover shortfalls brought about by having the tax rate at the wrong level.
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It is expected to be 1.1% of GDP.
12 billion in £ & p.
Since it appears that I have been arguing against tax cuts - let me put another side of the argument.
This govn will actually have approx £24 billion more revenue than was budgeted by Clarke in his last budget last year alone - now whose pockets has that come from?
I just to win the lottery so I don't give a **** anymore...
...just 1 final figure to put it into perspective - the 2p cut in fuel will cost the gov 1.7 billion in lost revenue.
any i'm off to get my sprog from the fotty and enjoy the car
[This message has been edited by RVeiga (edited 08 March 2001).]
12 billion in £ & p.
Since it appears that I have been arguing against tax cuts - let me put another side of the argument.
This govn will actually have approx £24 billion more revenue than was budgeted by Clarke in his last budget last year alone - now whose pockets has that come from?
I just to win the lottery so I don't give a **** anymore...
...just 1 final figure to put it into perspective - the 2p cut in fuel will cost the gov 1.7 billion in lost revenue.
any i'm off to get my sprog from the fotty and enjoy the car
[This message has been edited by RVeiga (edited 08 March 2001).]
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RVeiga:
<B>
...just 1 final figure to put it into perspective - the 2p cut in fuel will cost the gov 1.7 billion in lost revenue.
[/quote]
Diddums - poor 'icle New Labia
This, assuming true, just proves how much the motorist is being screwed to fatten New Labias coffers, and prop up their bad management of the economy, and over zealous giveaways to the non-working social spongers
If 2p is worth £1.7 billion, the full 62p tax is worth £52.7 billion (£52,700,000,000.00!!!!!) Which is a little high as total motoring taxes (including RFL etc) last year was only £37bn (and only £4.2bn was spent on transport/roads/etc) - the point is still valid though
<B>
...just 1 final figure to put it into perspective - the 2p cut in fuel will cost the gov 1.7 billion in lost revenue.
[/quote]
Diddums - poor 'icle New Labia
This, assuming true, just proves how much the motorist is being screwed to fatten New Labias coffers, and prop up their bad management of the economy, and over zealous giveaways to the non-working social spongers
If 2p is worth £1.7 billion, the full 62p tax is worth £52.7 billion (£52,700,000,000.00!!!!!) Which is a little high as total motoring taxes (including RFL etc) last year was only £37bn (and only £4.2bn was spent on transport/roads/etc) - the point is still valid though
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GaryC JohnS Shaun,
Good too see some people have some knowledge on this issue rather than just spouting off bits they hear in the media!
Orville - get a life mate, we all need to do 0-60 in at least 6 seconds.
I dont think people are complaining at the fuel consumption of the Scoob, as its a samll price to pay for the performance, its expensive driving most cars...
Mark.
Good too see some people have some knowledge on this issue rather than just spouting off bits they hear in the media!
Orville - get a life mate, we all need to do 0-60 in at least 6 seconds.
I dont think people are complaining at the fuel consumption of the Scoob, as its a samll price to pay for the performance, its expensive driving most cars...
Mark.
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GaryC
As well as a pretty boring chap know-it-all i take it your some sort of right wing neo-fascist? Governments have been overcharging us on pertol duty for years.
Why dont you go and burn some of your precious petrol on a cross and hunt down some new labia people. You could even dress up in a white pointy hat and shoot some lefties!!!!!
Just because your a moderator doesnt mean **** to me - your just boring
Jza
As well as a pretty boring chap know-it-all i take it your some sort of right wing neo-fascist? Governments have been overcharging us on pertol duty for years.
Why dont you go and burn some of your precious petrol on a cross and hunt down some new labia people. You could even dress up in a white pointy hat and shoot some lefties!!!!!
Just because your a moderator doesnt mean **** to me - your just boring
Jza
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