Whatever ...

a) Gets you through the day
b) Floats your boat
c) Makes you happy.

I think they're the best 3 options.

 

Big IF there Martin.

 

Of course, absence of evidence doesn't always mean evidence of absence. however, there is not a single piece of evidence for a creator. Ever. Just because the Universe is a wonderful thing to behold does not mean it even hints at a creator. It is simply a thought in our heads. The thought of a creator is the first science, but unlike science, it hasn't moved on since a better fit was found to describe how things are.

This is simply not so. Science does not claim there is no God per se, but like most things, if there is no evidence produced by the claimant, then it isn't true. God isn't even a decent theory. The overwhelming amount of evidence for evolution, the origins of the Universe, geology etc. etc. precludes other explanations. It is not aimed at God, God just happens to be one thing that falls by the wayside because it doesn't cut it.

I would have to ask why? Why does there have to be a purpose to anything?

But they don't say live a good life. They preach a mixture of hatred and some good stuff. Who are you to choose what should be taken literally and what should not? It's not a smorgasboard you know, you either believe or you don't.

Jesus probably didn't exist, so no, he probably wasn't the son of someone who doesn't exist, no more than anyone else then

God is quite clearly defined, by most religions. If you think it's something else, then fine, but bring some evidence to the table..........

Geezer

 

I haven't defined god as a creator of anything, believing in god and believing in evolution are not mutually exclusive beliefs either are they?

The essence of all religions do not preach hatred, that simply is not true, all of the great religions TEACH goodness, people (preachers) preach hate. Try to separate what was meant by the teaching of Jesus (for instance) from the cremonial and doctrinal clap trap man added

I really don't have to prove anthing do I? It's a discussion around god, and I gave my rather unauthordox perspective

 

Well, herein lies the problem Martin. You haven't defined God at all. There is only the definition from the mainstream religions, and that is clearly at odds with evolution. If you believe in those Gods, then you must reject evolution. You can't pick and choose what to believe.

If you believe something else, what is it? What purpose does it serve if not a creator? Nothing.

So intolerance of homosexuals, slavery, suppression of women, killing of non-believers, killing adulterers etc is goodness? These are all things advocated in the both the New and Old Testaments. Even Jesus supposedly said religion is more important than the family, so what does that tell you? He said some pretty nasty stuff (by today's standards) as well as a few musings on being nice to each other.

Again, why are you (not necessarily you of course, but true believers) choosing only the stuff that suits, or sounds nice in today's context? You should be following all of the bibles moral teachings, it's the word of God! Of course, you would end up so confused you'd end up just killing yourself (another mortal sin.......)

Of course you don't have to prove anything, but you made a claim about some sort of God, would be interesting to hear your definition and how it fits in to known facts and if not a creator wha point there would be in that god.

Geezer

 

Couple of snips in there to bypass the bits I'm not commenting on

Believing in a God and accepting evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It could be argued that a God put in place the mechanism for evolution and let life get on with it.

Martin did also state that the ceremonial and doctrinal claptrap was added by Man, so really he is agreeing with the point about hatred of homosexuals, implicit slavery etc etc. You could also argue that the Bible does not necessarily contain only the teachings / word of (a) God. Now that would be an interesting discussion! (Oh, hint: never argue with a Jesuit! I did once... never again )

I do however have to say that if you publicly make a statement about your point of view you need to be willing to have others question it. This is the absolute essence of Science

 

Well, I would have to disagree All the mainstream religions have a creation story. None of them mention evolution. Man was created in his present form. Where does evolution fit into that?

It has all been added by man, or it is the work of God. Which is it? If it is all man, there it is all invention. If it is the word of God, then God advocates those things. There is nothing to say what is what, how are you to decide?

If you you do decide, then basically you are determining your own set of values and how to live your life, and religion (and by definition any god) become irrelevant.

I just find it fascinating that people who believe cannot see the inconsistencies and contradictions that religion throws up, or the absolute lack of any evidence fails to convonvce them they are wrong.

I know that's what faith is, but they discount faith every single day of their lives for proof, otherwise they wouldn't be able to function! You go figure

Geezer

 

Why does there have to be some big point to it all? Is the point what happens next? Does this apply to other sentient beings too?

Guessing at another answer if you think that there is more to it all is no solution. If there is a Big Reason - why is it a secret?

I dont think there is any difference in ultimate longer lasting significance between us and a gnat, and that is fine by me.

D

 

Years back I remember watching this great program where it started with everything going in a 1m squared area.

Then it zoomed out to a 10m sq area, then 100, a 1000

Each time multiplying by a factor of 10

Very soon you realised just how utterly, utterly insignificant we are. We're living on a small planet orbiting a completely unremarkable star which is part of just one more Galaxy in this massive, massive reality.

Martin - the Universe doesn't care. Honestly.

I feel like getting a T-Shirt printed that says something like:

"Welcome to reality. It sucks"

but then I realised someone beat me to it:

"**** Happens"

 

I've said this before, but what if the universe as we know it was all just some tiny speck in something much bigger. Like a lump of giant cheese ? We could be like a tiny particle in one of the holes in a much larger world, where millions of our years is one minute in their time. We could just be sitting there as part of some cheese waiting to be eaten. And that vast world could exist inside another lump of cheese in an even bigger world still, and so on.

 

So, did people start walking slowly backwards from you at this point?



Mind you, if it was a cheese - we'd be one of the green veins in a Roquefort

 

You've been watching Men in Black!

 

Did I actually said anything specific about my beliefs? You are too fond of making assumptions I'm afraid. As I said before-that can be an abject error.

You are certainly not in a position to tell me how I should have lived my life, in the Service or otherwise. If you are just trying to undermine what I have said , it just won't work.

If I was to make similar assumptions I would quite easily be able to say that you are a conscientious objector who would never accept that there might be a time to fight against those who threaten us and who would not lift a finger to defend his country or his family!

See how it works?

Les

 

I didnt mean to offend you Les and didnt quite get my point across how I meant. All I was trying to get at is if you say you believe in god why don't you obide by his rules. If you don't obide by his rules then how can you say your a believer.

.
.
Appologises for any offence earlier it wasn't my intention

 

I'm offended by your ridicule of my beliefs. I've reported you to... well in Kieran's case, himself. You can laugh all you want, but unlike all the others on this thread, I have the proof to support them.

Here it is below

 

That's pretty unequivocal, I'm a believer brother, halleluah!!!!!!!

Geezer

 

Some one has already mentioned Men in Black...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJOVUF-HaDw

works for me as well as anything else

 

and I gave myself a stern talking to I can tell you. I was very disappointed with myself

 

Ok about the misunderstanding.

In what way do I not abide by any rules though?

Les

 

I think what he is getting at is that if you believe in the god of Abraham, the you should follow the teachings of the bible.

If you believe in something else, depending on what that belief is, a god becomes unecessary, it's just a personal set of values.

Geezer

 

I think you lot even though you are entitled to your own opinions,need to stand in a nice neat que on the cliffs at beachey head so i can hit each and everyone of you on the back of your heads with a rusty spade

 

That is the nail on the head Geezer, basically what I was trying to say is that you can't add your own values and then say you believe in your god. Has far as the bible goes it wasn't written by god its just mans version of events.
Just to add if there is A god in your life then why is it not possible for there to be numerous gods. If you believe in the holy books that have been about for thousands of years , it looks like apple and microsoft are going to become gods themselves