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For Sale Sections: Paid SN membership required to post in ALL of the for sale forums

Old 13 April 2010, 02:10 PM
  #31  
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there is no way to prevent scammers but detterents are gd, ive only been on this forum just under 1yr , and when i started it to sell or buy may i add that my low post count was brought up,which is unfair to say the least,just because im new dont mean im a scammer although i know where people are coming from,

now ive been buying and selling on here not as much as some people but this itrader is gd in theory but to dam hard to use,people just cant get to grip with it,there must be an easier way to leave feedback and people prefer to buy on forums to try and avoid scammers on fleabay etc,

a minimun post off 200 before being allowed to sell would put people off and it if people are caught making pointless posts or spamming posts to get there count up then the mods should step in,this is a large site with plenty of moderators so it is possible to do this.

i think stopping the majority of the community from buying in the for sale section is wrong,yes i agree to stop scammers but why should people who have been here a long time with large post counts be punished by the minority, as the statement above suggested there was a problem with a guy with ove 500 posts not so long ago,so it goes to show if people want to be dishonest and scam money from you they will do,

its a hard subject to please everyone although i havent upgraded my membership what stops me posting for sale or items i may be getting rid of in other topics,yes its hard to sort out but i think making a minimum post count of 200 or 300 and a paid subscription should help sort this out,
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Old 13 April 2010, 04:53 PM
  #32  
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i have a few bit and pieces that I am happy to give away free

Classic MY00 sidelight, foglight, and rear 3.54/3.99 diff

obviously will not post the rear diff

what to I do??
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Old 13 April 2010, 07:01 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by junior1910 View Post
there is no way to prevent scammers but detterents are gd, ive only been on this forum just under 1yr , and when i started it to sell or buy may i add that my low post count was brought up,which is unfair to say the least,just because im new dont mean im a scammer although i know where people are coming from,

now ive been buying and selling on here not as much as some people but this itrader is gd in theory but to dam hard to use,people just cant get to grip with it,there must be an easier way to leave feedback and people prefer to buy on forums to try and avoid scammers on fleabay etc,

a minimun post off 200 before being allowed to sell would put people off and it if people are caught making pointless posts or spamming posts to get there count up then the mods should step in,this is a large site with plenty of moderators so it is possible to do this.

i think stopping the majority of the community from buying in the for sale section is wrong,yes i agree to stop scammers but why should people who have been here a long time with large post counts be punished by the minority, as the statement above suggested there was a problem with a guy with ove 500 posts not so long ago,so it goes to show if people want to be dishonest and scam money from you they will do,

its a hard subject to please everyone although i havent upgraded my membership what stops me posting for sale or items i may be getting rid of in other topics,yes its hard to sort out but i think making a minimum post count of 200 or 300 and a paid subscription should help sort this out,
I tried reading this but gave up after the first paragraph.
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Old 13 April 2010, 09:29 PM
  #34  
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aye, i think i did go off on one
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Old 13 April 2010, 10:08 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
i have a few bit and pieces that I am happy to give away free

Classic MY00 sidelight, foglight, and rear 3.54/3.99 diff

obviously will not post the rear diff

what to I do??
Hi i dont know if i read this right but i am interested in the sidelights? for the classic. What do i do?
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Old 13 April 2010, 10:15 PM
  #36  
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You will have to cross IB's palm with silver if you want to buy anything off here.



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Old 14 April 2010, 08:11 AM
  #37  
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Having to pay is a joke, Ive been on here for four years, purchased many items and never been ripped off. The reason is paypal or cash on collection. Simple. 9 times out of 10, any one who is genuine and is selling something will have a paypal account, and I know it may take little while to register, but if you do get scammed your money can be returned.

If a seller is requesting a cheque or bank transfer, any one should be instantely wary.

Saying it protects members is total crap, if your want protection buy having to pay to sell/buy, as mentioned, go to the section where these rules allready apply, stopping ALL members is plain stupid.

If any rules are to be applied I think it should be to have a verified paypal account. Im not sure how it could be implemanted, but this way no one has to pay for so called "saftey" as every one that registers to paypal, has to have the bank details varified so money can be chased.
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Old 14 April 2010, 04:47 PM
  #38  
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I was done out of 130 by a member on here and used paypal, he just took all the money out of the account so when they tried to get it back to give me, it wasnt there so that was the end of that...

I haven't forgot mr fish
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Old 14 April 2010, 07:56 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by carlos123lane View Post
Hi i dont know if i read this right but i am interested in the sidelights? for the classic. What do i do?
Hi -- it is just the passenger side

if you still want it pm me your address and I will send it to you
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Old 15 April 2010, 02:24 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
...Also to set the record straight.....On this occassion it was I who brought this up with Stu (although it's certainly not a new idea)...
Perhaps I imagined the post where a SN member suggested this, having seen it in force on PassionFord: and you said youd tell Stu? Feel free to set the record straight.
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Old 15 April 2010, 07:02 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by GC8 View Post
Perhaps I imagined the post where a SN member suggested this, having seen it in force on PassionFord: and you said youd tell Stu? Feel free to set the record straight.
No you didn't imagine it, but I think you're getting the ordering confused! I raised the possibility of closing the FS forums to all but paying members before 'Pistol' replied by saying he thought it was a good idea and had seen it work on PassionFord. I then stated that I'd bring it to Webby's attention and started a thread in the mods forum before posting this thread with the outcome of the discussion. IN any case I wasn't claiming it was my idea, just that I was the one to articulate the suggestion to Stu and the other mods that FS forums be for paying members only on this occasion.

BTW the reason I brought that up was not to try and claim credit for the idea (which seems to be what you're getting at) but to dispel the suggestion that this policy might have been motivated financially and instigated at the IB end or whatever, when in truth it was actioned by an unpaid mod who stands to gain nowt from any funds raised.

In all honesty, it's something that has cropped up time and time again in the past. Now it's been dealt with!

Ns04

Last edited by New_scooby_04; 15 April 2010 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 15 April 2010, 09:45 PM
  #42  
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I was done for £250 on here along with several others totaling over £800 (maybe even more) and when emailing mods etc not one of us had any response what so ever. I appreciate you cant get involved but acknowledgement would have been nice.
As for making this a safer market place on here, you are joking right? How will paying £5 stop anyone getting ripped off??? What this is is just a quick and easy way to generate some extra revenue. Making people have a post count along side a length of time as a member would have been a much better way of making this site safer but this would not have been so easy to sort out I guess and defiantly wouldn’t have raised any money would it... What a bloody joke, I am sure you had the best intentions but I think you have got this one very wrong..........
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Old 15 April 2010, 09:45 PM
  #43  
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Old 16 April 2010, 12:22 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by coops1 View Post
I was done for £250 on here along with several others totaling over £800 (maybe even more) and when emailing mods etc not one of us had any response what so ever. I appreciate you cant get involved but acknowledgement would have been nice.
As for making this a safer market place on here, you are joking right? How will paying £5 stop anyone getting ripped off??? What this is is just a quick and easy way to generate some extra revenue. Making people have a post count along side a length of time as a member would have been a much better way of making this site safer but this would not have been so easy to sort out I guess and defiantly wouldn’t have raised any money would it... What a bloody joke, I am sure you had the best intentions but I think you have got this one very wrong..........
Firstly, I can't comment on your situation as I have certainly not heard from yourself. What I will say for what it's worth is that I am sorry for what has happened to you and other members. I hate as much as the next person people who come onto forums with the sole intention of ripping members off. If I could wave a wand and make this impossible to happen I would.

As for trying to cut this down.... it's not fool proof or perfect but it's been said several times now, if the area is for paying members only, they have to provide more than just an e-mail address (which is all any non paying member needs to do). If it came to a situation where we may be able to assist a member, we have a bit more to pass on with payment details (of the scammer) held. As it stands, post count or not, all we would have is a random e-mail address. It's not about the cost of membership, it's more about having a bit more of a paper trail.

The post count issue has been covered too. If people really want to scam others, getting a post count up isn't going to stop them. It could deter some I will admit, but if someone is determined to scam they will suck it up and post until they can 'sell'. As said, trolls have done this when restrictions were in place just to spout crap and wind people up, I would imagine someone who thinks they can fleece people out of possibly a significant amount of money would be happy enough to post a bit for a while to have the chance.

What you have to remember is that NS04, myself, other mods aren't doing this for any gain. It has been put to Stu who has implemented it, IB didn't do this off their own back. There is nothing in it for any of us other than the fact we care enough to want to try something more to protect the decent, genuine members.

Again, nothing is going to protect people 100%, but would you rather we did nothing?
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Old 16 April 2010, 12:58 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by coops1 View Post
I was done for £250 on here along with several others totaling over £800 (maybe even more) and when emailing mods etc not one of us had any response what so ever. I appreciate you cant get involved but acknowledgement would have been nice.
As for making this a safer market place on here, you are joking right? How will paying £5 stop anyone getting ripped off??? What this is is just a quick and easy way to generate some extra revenue. Making people have a post count along side a length of time as a member would have been a much better way of making this site safer but this would not have been so easy to sort out I guess and defiantly wouldn’t have raised any money would it... What a bloody joke, I am sure you had the best intentions but I think you have got this one very wrong..........
I am confused and both concerned that you say you and others have sent messages to mods with no response. Whilst my personal email isn't public, I as well as all the other mod team are contactable via PM (private messaging) and always reply to any correspondence (except for abusive messaages, when I'm on holiday or busy at work), if someone has fell short of that basic requirement I think Stu or Scoobychick needs to made aware of it. Granted, we cannot do much to rectify the problem after someone has been ripped off, but obviously the chain of informing us of a problem has failed.

You say this method will not stop fraudsters. It never will, but it is an aid to help reduce it. Remember the onus is always on yourself to take all the personal safeguard necessary to prevent yourself from being ripped off (as noted in the stickies within the sales sections), so this is one step up from that. The only sure way to prevent people being ripped off here is to ban all sales and swaps on Scoobynet, and even then it would carry on behind the scene via the PM system.

Appreciably the market place section only existed to cater for contributing community members who wanted to sell items on a non-profit basis. These days it seems that there are members that register on SN purely to sell items and nothing more, probably for profit, whilst not involving themselves in areas outside the sales sections. Its these folk we need to keep an eye on, as these are not community members in my eyes and some to be quite frank do take the Michael. Hopefully we will be able to fully tackle and address this in the future, but in the meantime restricting the sales sections to paying members only should at least put off a majority of scammers who leach off the forum and its bonafide members. Granted some will pay their way, but if they have to set up another ID everytime they rip someone off and get rumbled, things may start to get pricey.

We do aim to give the sales sections a much needed make-over in the future. But I have no idea of when that will happen.
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Old 16 April 2010, 01:53 AM
  #46  
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We have Stu and Scoobychick as admin and whoever else!!!! Why is there so many un-answered threads in policy and bugs/request????????????? It's pathetic in my eyes!!! If they are not up to the job then IB should F*ck them off and get some one who is willing to put in the effort and answer the ''customers'' Sort it out IB or have me to answer to!!!!

Sorry but really losing patience with this place and the way it's run!!!!!

Sort it out or have me to answer to you

Last edited by Will; 17 April 2010 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 16 April 2010, 07:44 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by ALi-B View Post
Remember the onus is always on yourself to take all the personal safeguard necessary to prevent yourself from being ripped off

so why bother with all this crap?

if all you do is store and address, why not do that for all non paying members?

and dont say "because people can give false details" even if the pay subscription charge im pretty sure that can still do it.
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Old 16 April 2010, 08:41 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by New_scooby_04 View Post
Dear all,

From this point onwards, the ability to create new threads (i.e. post adverts) in all of the for sale sections is reserved for paid members only e.g. SN+, private classified or Trade members.

SN has taken this move reluctantly, as many non-paying SN members enjoyed and used the For Sale forums without incident. To all of you: our sincere apologies! You can, however, still buy items from the for sale forums.

However, the simple fact is that whenever we have had instances of people getting ripped off reported to us, it's almost invariably been perpetrated by non-paying members. This is not surprising given that all you need to join the site as a non-paying member is to create a user-name and provide an E-mail address. Essentially, this means no recourse for anyone who gets stung, as if the authorities approached us for information on the culprit, we would have very little to show them!

It's the same deal with the serial trolls: cowards who hide behind a mask of anonymity and no paper trail!

The only real solution to this problem is to remove the cloak of anonymity and make people who want to use SN to conduct transactions invest in the site. This should stop all but the most committed fraudster in their tracks, as under the new system, if the authorities do compel us to release information about a member suspected of Fraud - there will be a much greater chance of recourse for the victim

There is good precedent for this course of action: large forums such as Passion Ford have had access restrictions on For Sale forums for some time. We're really not asking for a Kings Ransom and becoming a member of SN gets you other perks too!

You can find information on benefits and costs of the various grades of membership that afford you access to the for sale forums here:

https://www.scoobynet.com/payments.php

Please note: although we hope that this step will eliminate the vast majority of fraudsters from the outset, it does not suddenly mean that SN is akin to Ebay! Moderators are unpaid: we have neither the time, inclination or investigative authority to mediate disputes between parties involved in a private transaction.

SN remains a community chat forum. We do provide forums (now as an additional perk to paying members) where private parties can stage their own transactions, but this is under the strict proviso that such transactions are independent of SN.... i.e we can't safeguard such transactions - it's still a case of "buyer beware". You'll still need to use your common sense when staging transactions! For example, you should be wary of the following:

- Attempts to solicit trading outside of the SN for sale forums (e.g. in NSR). This is NOT allowed.
- Attempts to solicit trading within a paid member's advert within the for sale forums. This is also NOT allowed.
- Similarly, links in SN forums to 3rd party sites containing for sale listings or any similar attempts to circumvent the new policy. This is not permitted and offending posts will be removed.

We do have a feedback system (Itrader) to help you make informed decisions about who you trade with, but this does rely on people actually using it! Please do so and this will make the for sale forums an even more pleasant and, above all, safe place to sell and buy stuff!

We do understand that this move will be unpopular with some people and can only apologise for any disappointment caused, but we feel it's only right to do what we can to try and prevent people from being parted with their hard earned by unscrupulous individuals who have, in the past, exploited the community's good will.

Rest assured there are no plans to restrict access to any of the other forums for non-paying members. This motivation for this step is purely fraud prevention!

Best regards,

The SN webteam
Whats nsr?
Also what if answering a 'wanted' add? Can we not answer it now?
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Old 16 April 2010, 09:32 AM
  #49  
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It was a year ago now when we all got stiffed on here and I don’t remember who was emailed and pm’ed about it but I do know that no responses were had. We all paid by PayPal but like mugs and not knowing the score we did it as a gift. The police or PayPal would not get involved and said it was a civil matter but without all he details of the seller nothing could be done. Not your problem I know but lesson learnt in a big was for many of us there...

I agree by paying SN+ it will help with the problem but so would other methods just as well and not hit people in the pocket when people just don’t have the money at the moment.
Just look how well the threads move on on this site and the number of members compared to say "scoobycity" and in my opinion the only reason for this is down to the fact that you DO NOT have to pay.
I am also a member of driftworks, skylineowners, gtr owners, pistonheads just to mention a few because these are the cars I have driven in the past and not one of them do we have to pay for but they do have min thread counts and it works very well...

Last edited by coops1; 16 April 2010 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 16 April 2010, 11:56 AM
  #50  
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A lot of the above questions were covered in my first post, but briefly.

1). Min post counts don't work - people are very happy to set up a (sometimes large) number of alaises and get them past Insta-ban thresholds JUST to troll. If I showed some of you the lengths some people would go to to misbehave on-line when they're not even benefiting financially from it, you'd probably give up on forums altogether...and you certainly wouldn't want to conduct any transactions on them!

Also, we have had a number of cases where established (but non paying) users have, for reasons only they know, started to behave poorly when selling items. In these instances, post counts mean squat, as all we have should someone complain to the authorities is an E-mail and a username! Information gained on a user does not increase with post count!

2) Nothing is full proof, but the casual con artist isn't going to pay for the privilege of being able to rip people off and would have to go to much greater lengths to get away with it, when they're giving us card details etc... I'm pretty damned confident that 99% of all "rip offs" will be stopped in their tracks by this move! The VAST majority of trouble (of all types) we have on this site is perpetrated by non-paying members. Reason, they're anonymous and they've not invested in the site.

3) We can never fully protect buyers from themselves. The above measure will help, but if people do things to circumvent measures that we or any other site offer e.g. send money as a gift, then they have no-one but themselves to blame if things go wrong! Harsh, but true, I'm afraid.

First and foremost, this is a chat forum, not Ebay. It's always "buyer beware". Transactions will remain private and a matter between the seller and buyer, NOT SN

The only difference now is that the only people who are allowed to post FS threads are people who have given us details that can be released to the authorities in the event of a criminal/civil action being pursued should they behave poorly. So, SN is no longer such a friendly environment for con artists.

Ns04

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Last edited by New_scooby_04; 16 April 2010 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 16 April 2010, 12:21 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by New_scooby_04 View Post
A lot of the above questions were covered in my first post, but briefly.
We can never fully protect buyers from themselves. The above measure will help, but if people do things to circumvent measures that we or any other site offer e.g. send money as a gift, then they have no-one but themselves to blame if things go wrong! Harsh, but true, I'm afraid.

First and foremost, this is a chat forum, not Ebay. It's always "buyer beware". Transactions will remain private and a matter between the seller and buyer, NOT SN

The only difference now is that the only people who are allowed to post FS threads are people who have given us details that can be released to the authorities in the event of a criminal/civil action being pursued should they behave poorly. So, SN is no longer such a friendly environment for con artists.
it may stop people non paying members from posting for sale threads in the for sale sections but it doesnt stop non paying people from posting for sale items in any other section as its already happening,

so the system u have in place aint working as people can still post for sale items in other sections of the site!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Tomwrx; 16 April 2010 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 16 April 2010, 12:32 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by junior1910 View Post
it may stop people non paying members from posting for sale threads in the for sale sections but it doesnt stop non paying people from posting for sale items in any other section as its already happening,

so the system u have in place aint working as people can still post for sale items in other sections of the site!!!!!!!!!
I refer you to my first post and most recent post

If people try and circumvent measures put in place to protect them, and get stung, tough *******....

Please RTM any such threads as they're not allowed
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Old 16 April 2010, 03:12 PM
  #53  
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Can you conferm the situation with the 'wanted' section please...can we reply to them and offer our spares now? ta
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Old 16 April 2010, 03:35 PM
  #54  
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If like in my case I could not pursue the matter through PayPal because of the gift thing and the police said they were not interested it was a civil matter then by you having this persons info then how is this going to help anyone? Under the data protection act you would not be able to give me the persons details (just as PayPal wouldn’t) so therefore I would be no better off.. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
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Old 16 April 2010, 03:35 PM
  #55  
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Also why is it every time I post on here at the mo from either my works pc or my home pc the site times out when I hit "post" and then logs my thread twice?

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Old 16 April 2010, 04:26 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by coops1 View Post
If like in my case I could not pursue the matter through PayPal because of the gift thing and the police said they were not interested it was a civil matter then by you having this persons info then how is this going to help anyone? Under the data protection act you would not be able to give me the persons details (just as PayPal wouldn’t) so therefore I would be no better off.. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

this man has the best point yet.

if you use paypal as purchased goods/ebay auction then paypal will persue the issue, but if you use gift and money option then they wont care.

And as your storing peoples personal data, under the data protection act of 1998 you will NOT be able to distribute any information as it will not be a criminal investigation.
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Old 16 April 2010, 04:27 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by coops1 View Post
Also why is it every time I post on here at the mo from either my works pc or my home pc the site times out when I hit "post" and then logs my thread twice?
same as.
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Old 16 April 2010, 10:21 PM
  #58  
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Sad it has come to this after nearly 10 years on here
So just to post the odd ad in the for sale section (as a private individual) will now cost £24 per year. Any reduction for pensioners ?
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Old 16 April 2010, 10:32 PM
  #59  
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^^ 1400 posts in 10yrs ... not really a SNetter are you

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Old 16 April 2010, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by junior1910 View Post
its a hard subject to please everyone although i havent upgraded my membership what stops me posting for sale or items i may be getting rid of in other topics,yes its hard to sort out but i think making a minimum post count of 200 or 300 and a paid subscription should help sort this out,
Paying members have something to lose though if they scam others ... generally their large post history albeit not always + their annual fee.

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