New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Dear all,

From this point onwards, the ability to create new threads (i.e. post adverts) in all of the for sale sections is reserved for paid members only e.g. SN+, private classified or Trade members.

SN has taken this move reluctantly, as many non-paying SN members enjoyed and used the For Sale forums without incident. To all of you: our sincere apologies! You can, however, still buy items from the for sale forums.

However, the simple fact is that whenever we have had instances of people getting ripped off reported to us, it's almost invariably been perpetrated by non-paying members. This is not surprising given that all you need to join the site as a non-paying member is to create a user-name and provide an E-mail address. Essentially, this means no recourse for anyone who gets stung, as if the authorities approached us for information on the culprit, we would have very little to show them!

It's the same deal with the serial trolls: cowards who hide behind a mask of anonymity and no paper trail!

The only real solution to this problem is to remove the cloak of anonymity and make people who want to use SN to conduct transactions invest in the site. This should stop all but the most committed fraudster in their tracks, as under the new system, if the authorities do compel us to release information about a member suspected of Fraud - there will be a much greater chance of recourse for the victim

There is good precedent for this course of action: large forums such as Passion Ford have had access restrictions on For Sale forums for some time. We're really not asking for a Kings Ransom and becoming a member of SN gets you other perks too!

You can find information on benefits and costs of the various grades of membership that afford you access to the for sale forums here:

https://www.scoobynet.com/payments.php

Please note: although we hope that this step will eliminate the vast majority of fraudsters from the outset, it does not suddenly mean that SN is akin to Ebay! Moderators are unpaid: we have neither the time, inclination or investigative authority to mediate disputes between parties involved in a private transaction.

SN remains a community chat forum. We do provide forums (now as an additional perk to paying members) where private parties can stage their own transactions, but this is under the strict proviso that such transactions are independent of SN.... i.e we can't safeguard such transactions - it's still a case of "buyer beware". You'll still need to use your common sense when staging transactions! For example, you should be wary of the following:

- Attempts to solicit trading outside of the SN for sale forums (e.g. in NSR). This is NOT allowed.
- Attempts to solicit trading within a paid member's advert within the for sale forums. This is also NOT allowed.
- Similarly, links in SN forums to 3rd party sites containing for sale listings or any similar attempts to circumvent the new policy. This is not permitted and offending posts will be removed.

We do have a feedback system (Itrader) to help you make informed decisions about who you trade with, but this does rely on people actually using it! Please do so and this will make the for sale forums an even more pleasant and, above all, safe place to sell and buy stuff!

We do understand that this move will be unpopular with some people and can only apologise for any disappointment caused, but we feel it's only right to do what we can to try and prevent people from being parted with their hard earned by unscrupulous individuals who have, in the past, exploited the community's good will.

Rest assured there are no plans to restrict access to any of the other forums for non-paying members. This motivation for this step is purely fraud prevention!

Best regards,

The SN webteam

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

What bliddy perks??

Got wrong for abusing the swear filter.... The swear filter deserved it, called me names it did.

No sodding adverts, that's a perk. Shame all the ones at the top are aimed at the septics.

MilleniumRacer

iTrader: (25)

Quick question for yous mods.

I've just paid my Snet+ subscription and can immediately see that I now have storage facility of 500 PM's, but it still won't let me post a new thread on the General For Sale section.
Anyone know why, or how I can activate this facility?

Cheers

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

What adds are they

MilleniumRacer

iTrader: (25)

Not effective immediately as the title of this thread suggests!!!

Do I need to make a number of new posts before I get permission to post on the for sale threads, like some forums do with their brand new members??? (I've been a member here for a few years, just being a full member from today )

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Unless you're "special" like us Steve, you have adverts down the side of the screen and intersperced in threads.

Myles

iTrader: (40)

I see no ads................ I should stop squinting.

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Dude, policy was effective immediately. Things will be being tweaked right now, I would have thought.

Give it a short while, or fire off a PM to Stu@InternetBrands , include lots of swearing and SHOUTING, I think he likes that.

MilleniumRacer

iTrader: (25)

That's exactly where I've been going wrong in my approach then!!!!

:c ry:

Suppose I'll forget about the sales section until the morning and see if I've got the priveliges then????

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I've put Stu on the case for you

Don't worry you'll get access.

MilleniumRacer

iTrader: (25)

I've now got access to post on the Private For Sale - Car Parts & Accessories section, but still not on the Private For Sale - General section.

This is a bugger because I've got a non-car item I need to sell, but don't want to incorrectly post it up on a car part section???

Help please Stu .

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Not entirely sure what my membership is, as it doesn't appear as an option. I won whatever I have a few years ago .

Anyway - can I post ads?

TimH

iTrader: (11)

answered my own question as soon as I posted when I saw my own orange member+ stripe thingy. Bit stoopid I is

MilleniumRacer

iTrader: (25)

All sorted now guys, cheers

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

the competitions?

GC8

Considering that the person who suggested this saw it on PassionFord first - Im surprised that it has taken this long (and needed suggesting, in fact).

Everyone knows that the 'competitions' were all part of Simon de Planke's plan to make the site appear to be more commercially viable.....

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

Only just realised this when I tried to post an ad. I can barely be arsed to post on here anymore and will be doing so even less now. What a silly f*cking knee jerk reaction. If someone is going to rip someone off a £5 mebership is hardly going to stop them. Nice move.

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

I think its actually a good idea. not very knee jerk at all, we have been asking for months and months for the team here to do something about the scam artists on here. hope it works

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

There was allready a section for paid members to post sale ads in. If you were concerned about being ripped off you should of bought from that section in the first place.

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Some forums require a set amount of quality post's before you can even see/post in the classifieds, and even then you have to pay to sell anything.

It's a good move.

Mogsmex

I've only just joined, but good effort I say......

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

How is it silly?

People want more security on here regarding transactions, and while this is not fool proof, it's another step we are able to take to at least help deter those wishing to rip other people off.

Maybe a small fee wouldn't stop people altogether, but it's not just about the cost, it's about having a bit more of a paper trail on members.

Plus, if a small fee puts you off using this site more, then by the same notion, it may put scammers off too.

If this move protects even a handful of people, then it was worth it in my opinion.

Scooby Jonni

Sorry but having a minimum post count is much more likely to stop fraud than paying a small price for a membership which you would immediately make back. I see this as nothing more than a way to make more money

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Of course you'd make it back if successful in selling, but this is a measure to deter, and some people wouldn't pay just hoping they 'may' be able to scam people.

As for post count, maybe that would help too, but truthfully it wouldn't be difficult to get around that either. All it takes is a little time to get some posts up, then wham lets start scamming.

At the end of the day, nothing is fool proof. Even having the trader rating in place hasn't stopped people, sometimes probably as it's not used to it's full potential.

Whether it be paying for the facility to sell, post count or anything else it won't prevent fraud/scamming completely, but we are doing our best to make it less likely and trying to help you guys out. Plus as said, with paying subscriptions it should give a bit more of a paper trail, potentially deterring people with the sole aim of ripping off other members.

Scooby Jonni

Fair enough, there's a lot of forums out there so hopefully this deterrent will be enough to make scammers go else where.

I just think that a minimum post count should have been tried first as it would inconvenience a lot less people and be more in keeping with club spirit. Out of interest, does the membership money go back into the club or to IB?

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Basically, membership money goes into the running of this site, keeping it going.

And why would it be best to do something that would inconvenience people less? By that I mean, surely that would be even less hassle to someone to come on, post here and there and then get on their merry way scamming. They provide no real details other than an email address.

Anyhow, if someone is a genuine enthusiast, and wants to contribute to this community, why really would they have an issue pulling out a few quid over the course of a year to support it, and get to trade on here, most likely making that money back and then some?(as you have said)

If all someone wants to do is come on and sell and give nothing back, then why shouldn't they pay. Short of the free classifieds, people have to pay to sell places be it ebay, autotrader etc.

Scooby Jonni

I think making, say, 50 posts would be more of an inconvenience to a scammer than paying for a membership yet it wouldn't be a problem for an true enthusiast.

I would be happy to buy a membership if I thought the money would help the club but not if the money is just going to a profit making company. There are literally millions of websites out there that make good money purely from advertising, I personally don't see why scoobynet should need paying for.

If you are charging people to advertise on this site (like ebay autotrader etc) I have absolutely no problem with that. In your original post you said you were doing it purely to stop fraud which is why I suggested an alternative which, I felt, would be better for everyone.

I support any efforts made to prevent fraud in any case and hope what you have proposed works. If I feel a membership will be of value to me, I'll happily will buy one.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Would it be possible to make the itrader system more obvious and accessible?

The first time I wanted to leave feedback it took me ages to work out how to access it, and I had to guide someone who wanted to leave me feedback through it as well.

As far as I know, the best way is to find a post by the person you want to leave feedback for and click on their itrader rating - great if you know that's what you have to do, but not that intuitive (probably just me being stoopid )...maybe a specific link at the top of the page where the forum shortcuts are?

Just a thought

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

+1

A minimum of 200 posts or 6 months would of been more of a detterant. Who are you going to trust more, a name you see every day or someone who has just joined up and payed membership? If somebody is going to come on to rip people off possibly to the tune of hundreds then a few quid on a membership is nothing. The fact is this website isnt worth paying for anymore IMO. I can go on a much bigger website with a wider audience and sell stuff for free.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

As Lisa says, post counts won't deter the opportunistic fraudster.

Because:

A) If you stand to make more than just a few quid ripping someone off, then you won't mind building up a few posts for the priviliege. We experimented with min post counts as an anti trolling measure and - almost unbelieveably- some saddos were quite happy to make 50+ posts to get past the insta ban stage just to be able to troll, which carries with it no financial reward! Increasing a post count is also very easy with thread replies that consist of a number of words. Mods don't have time to vet all newbies post histories for "quality" before activating for sale forum priviliages.

B) Post counts offer no increased chance of recourse for the victim should a "resonably" established poster pull a scam, as all we have is a username and E-mail! There was a case not too long ago where a few members started to raise issues about dealings with a poster with, if I recall, over 500 posts (so hardly a newbie). I think Itrader was introduced not long after that, actually!

Also to set the record straight:

a) As with the introduction of the adult forum: we would be the first to say that there are bigger and more specialised sales forums on which you can sell stuff! First and foremost, SN is a chat community and it's this reason that we'd expect most people to contibute to the site by buying a membership.

b) On this occassion it was I who brought this up with Stu (although it's certainly not a new idea); so it's not an IB move to make more money. Mods don't get any commission (or payment of any kind- Doh!), so you can rest assurred that the motivation for this move is solely fraud prevention. We'll see if it works over the coming months.