SunnySideUp

3* - you're showing your age there!

You do realise that the map adapts to whatever fuel is put in, don't you?

It's not a static map - is evolves, it changes, it learns ..... it takes information from sensors and gives the safe, most reliable map .... like I said, simple - really, it is simple!

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

SSU no he is not 'Billy the work experience guy' he is a Subaru trained technician who has forgotten more about Imprezas than you will ever know (which is not much by the way).

I always find that when I read posts from other users especially the 'professional' members who have years of experience and technical expertise that I learn from the information posted; you obviously bury your head further into the ground and go into 'ignorance is bliss' mode.

As for your friend at IM do you think they are going to acknowledge a problem they are trying to bury? I dare say most of the reflashes or remaps are performed without even the customer even knowing unless the customer enquires about it.

What position does your friend hold at IM - caretaker, security guard, canteen technician or tea lady?

SunnySideUp

He is the Chief Technical Engineer .... he asks me for advice now and again - he likes someone who talks sense.

SunnySideUp

I maintain that Subaru make their cars as fuel efficient as they can - without trading reliability. Why would they do otherwise?

Still need to know what the accepted mappers warranties are - I'm guessing 12 months and 12,000 miles ..... but, I could be wrong and they are much longer (like Subaru's Map Warranties?)

tathan

They make them as fuel efficient as possibly while still maintaining a generous margin for error to account for differences from manufacturing process and usage (apart from certain recent models lol).

Pay attention:

Each car is a little wittle bit different, and if clever men spend lots and lots of grown-up time adjusting the computer to suit each car's engine, how sunny the weather is where that car lives, and how tasty the petrol daddy puts in the car is, you can make the car a bit happier and use its petrol better..

If clever man gets it wrong, then daddy will be sad, because his car will explode. This is why we only let clever men do it.

That seems really simple - do you understand?

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

I own an STI8 running 410bhp on standard internals. The car has 81,000 miles on the clock - 70,000 of which I have done. Of these, I have covered 30,000 at 330bhp and the last 40,000 miles at 400+bhp. My car is mapped by Paul at Zen and I have NEVER had a single mechanical problem with it whatsoever. It burns zero oil between services and it is by far the most reliable car I've ever owned (includes, VAG, Toyota, Mazda). Perhaps it's time for you to reconsider trying to pass off your bigoted opinions as fact

Edited to add that during gentle driving, I aslo get slightly better fuel consumption figures than standard

SunnySideUp

Nice try

But fatally flawed ....

Cars these days don't vary much, engines a lot less so than the vehicle which houses it - I'm an Engineer, I work with ex-Car Manufacturing Engineers .... any small difference cannot be adjusted for via a map change. Just think of the lossed in the engine, in the drivetrain, in the wheels, in the tyres .... tinkering with the map is extremely minor adjustment wise compared to these variables.

Clever men did my Map at Subaru, the men who live or starve on their ability to get it right - I agree fully with you that we should let these clever men do it ...... and leave it well alone!

What does a Map control? Just consider that for a moment .... it controls the timing of the spark and the fuel mixture - that's actually all it does! A re-map changes the outputs from the same set of inputs ... it is actually really simple.

Fact is the Subaru standard map changes and learns and develops ... despite what some may wish you to believe, you do NOT need a re-map if you fill up from Pump number 4 (because you usually fill up from Pump number 3!) - I truly believe some on here would truly be taken in if they were told that they needed to have one done

I'll stick with what Subaru gave me - they have so much faith in it that they back it up with a solid warranty ..... I'm still waiting to hear what a re-map comes with in terms of a warranty? Am I right is assuming it could be as short as 12 months / 12,000 miles?

porteouz

iTrader: (1)

Coming from a pump back ground I can tell you some pumps are sold by flowrate and some sold by pressure depending on what the pump is needed for. But NO pump can supply only pressure or only flow. The pump in a subaru is no different, it supply's the pressure that the regulator regulates.

I have no doubt youll argue this as reading this thread you arent actually tryin to help anyone your simply a wind up merchant

SunnySideUp

That's amazing ...

You have a car delivering 400BHP - is as reliable as a standard car (maybe even more reliable) - and, amazingly, returns a better mpg

I wonder why Subaru cannot manage it? I'm confused, you would have thought that was a brilliant selling point ..... 400 BHP and 40mpg around town - would end all competition, would finish the Evos off!!

Oh, hang on a minute, Mitsibushi aren't able to do what has been done to your car ...

Honda cannot do it either ...

Hang on again, neither can Ford, Vauxhall, Mazda ...

Or, this gets more amazing, Aston Martin can't - neither can Rolls Royce, Bugatti or Maseratti ...

Come to think about it, Aerial, BMW and Audi ...

Alfa Romeo, Chrysler and Bentley ...

Ferrari, Fiat and Volvo ...

In fact, not one car Maker can produce a car which is 100% reliable, has twice the BHP of their standard offering AND delivers a better mpg!!

Imagine all those University minds, all those brilliant Engineers, all those ££££millions, all that time and effort and research .... and they cannot achieve what you have achieved for a few £££££££.

I'm staggered, and quite frankly, in absolute AWE at what you have achieved ......

Unless, I was right in the first place? Unless, my agreement with the best minds in the business .. is the truth? Maybe, despite having no vested interest, I am actually the only point of wisdom?

I'm confused .... but, that aside, considering what you have achieved with your car I guess the Warranties were rock solid - could you share with everyone what those guarantees were?

Butty

iTrader: (2)

You've sussed him out very quickly.
Unfortunately he likes to play the bombastic ignorant role, which is a very juicy worm to dangle, as there's nothing quite like trying to put that kind of prat in his place.

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Touched a nerve have we there Pete? Can't really be @rsed to write a long reply to your meaningless drivel (your little rant tells all the readers of this thread what they need to know) except to say:

a) that I get slightly better fuel consumption during gentle driving (tip for the day - try reading a post before you start typing your drivel) and:

b) Subaru could easily manufacture a reliable 400bhp car but I wouldn't care to pay the undoubtedly exhorbitant asking price

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

I'm glad you wave, good.

I'm glad you drive your car with vigour too.

As for reliability, I'm running 330bhp, 20K and no problems whatsover.

scooby L

Yes, just about every. The dealers get regular flash-updates from IM which they implement at every service.
The safety re-flash (if a little more urgent) was treated exactly the same.. and any 2008 STI that has had a service by any main dealer since then will have had it.

Any 2008 STI owners that have chosen to not use a main dealer for servicing and have also not heard about this map weakness from other sources (clubs, net etc) may have fallen through the net... but this must be a very small number if any at all.

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

The maps car manufacturers upload to ECU's is not there to account for any small discrepancies in manufacture, that is taken care of by the EGT, lambda sensor, knock sensor, thorttle position sensor etc, basically all of the engines input sensors providing inputs to the ECU which in turn alter an output which in this case is§ the map to suit the conditions at that time.

Instead the map car manufacturers upload to their ECU's in different countries is one that takes into account that countries climate, road conditions, type of driving, fuel type etc. It is a generalised map that best suits how that countries cars are going to be driven and what environment they will be driven in.

Take for example a Prodrive map; its a generalised performance map that the guys at Prodrive have produced that is generalised for a whole countrie's use which takes into account all of the factors I have stated above and which is acknowledged by Subaru by them extending their warranties to cover this. It is not a tailored map for YOUR specific car, it is instead a map which can be uploaded to EVERY Subaru to produce a power increase.

SunnySideUp

a) So, let's get this straight ... you spend ££££££'s getting 400+BHP and then drive it like Miss Daisy .. That's good then!

b) You HAVE paid an exhorbitant price to get 400 BHP!!! So, what are you saying? Have you wasted your money?

The difference would be, of course, that you would have a Subaru Warranty (you still haven't told us what Warranty you got on your re-map ... was it 12 months?) Maybe you could share that with us, it is a simple question, after all. With your car, what you have is a standard car which has been bu99ered about with .... I suggest that a 400BHP Subaru, from the factory - done properly by Subaru - would be a much better buy!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

^ Don't forget EUIII or EUIV as well as federal emissions compliance ^ (different and stricter to that of MOT test limits ). Do mappped cars comply with their relevent EUIII/EUIV emissions?

SunnySideUp

OK, so just a servicing update to the map .... which all manufacturers do - doesn't mean engines blow up ... and doesn't mean Subaru Engineers got it wrong (any more than a mapper would!).

You have thrown up an interesting point, actually ..... in addition to the warranty offered by mappers (the details of which no-one seems to want to disclose) - do the mappers offer free updates (like Subaru do?).

I'm starting to detect that the Warranty on a re-map might not be the 12 month and 12,000 mile guarantee I thought it might be (which in itself is far worse than Subaru offers!) .... what is it? It must be good because some say it is a better, safer, more economical map than the Subaru map!!

Can't have it all ways .... so, come on, what's the warranty? I guess what I'm asking is what confidence do you have? Not just words, but hard guarantees ..... talk is cheap.

SunnySideUp

Are you saying that re-mapping a car is illegal?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

No, it only applies to new cars that are being registered in this country. Something manufacturers and importers have to comply with to market their vehicle in the EU. Similar standards apply in the US. Obviously trying to comply with such standards whilst also assuring good engine lifespan is going to affect performance and mpg.

Also a manufacturer may tweek a car's tuning so its CO2 is in a lower tax bracket. Doubt that happens with Impreza Turbos - with the newer ones being in Band L and M already

scooby L

yes it does... Subaru informed dealers of this flash problem in the states and implemented the update over here....the fact some cars suffered ring land failure in the meantime just points to Subaru's bad timing/slow response to the issue.. as far as Subaru are concerned they've solved the problem... so in that fact they've admitted there was a problem in the 1st place?

No Pete, they do not offer flash updates, why? because the map is tailor made to your engine..
Subaru's updates are to combat the weakness of a blanket generic map, ie not all engines react the same, so some illustrate symptoms where another "identical" engine do not.. Subaru are learning the worst case scenario every month and issuing these re-flashes to suit.. Some engines are working 100% on the OEM map, others did not, and went bang as a result.
If your engine has been custom mapped then updates are not needed, because it's been subjected to varied driving conditions while being monitored by your mapper using diagnostic software, he knows where the engine boosts too much, he knows where the fueling is a bit lean, and he maps the engine to suit.

Hope that helps your confusion

SunnySideUp

I guess that running a car outside of it's emissions limits is illegal?

Hence the roadside checks?

Make the most of it ... the time is fast approaching where high polluting fast cars are removed from the roads ...

SunnySideUp

No confusion at all ..... why doesn't the mapper keep details of your map? Why don't they offer free updates like Subaru do? I assume they can (and must) keep your map on file ... so can offer updates as and when they come out?

Still have had no answer as to how long the warranty is on a re-map? Could you enlighten me?

I'm shocked they don't offer free upgrades

scooby L

If your engine has been custom mapped then updates are not needed, because it's been subjected to varied driving conditions while being monitored by your mapper using diagnostic software, he knows where the engine boosts too much, he knows where the fueling is a bit lean, and he maps the engine to suit.

Sorry Pete, this was added after your quote

and my mapper has got my map saved.

scooby L

and re-map=no warranty (with me anyway, cannot comment on anyone else)

My choice, I accepted it on my last Impreza, and I accept it on this one...no great drama or mystery.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Roadside checks are done by VOSA, to MOT standards this is not the same as Euro emissions; MOT emission is done at idle and no-load fast idle with an engine at normal operating temperature. All that is checked is Lambda, CO and HC (although Co2 and o2 can be seen, the measured Co2 has no bearing on the car's rated Co2 limit as its not being driven).

EURO compliance is done via "simulated driving conditions" where the vehicle is driven under specified conditions set out by the European Test Cycle (ETC) with the car on a rolling road with a cold engine. In addition to CO and HC, on a petrol engine, limits are set for NOx as well as particulates.

I haven't seen a roadside check put a car on a rolling road? Have you?

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Yes, I drive like Miss Daisy around town and when traffic conditions dictate as I hope you do too

410bhp utterly reliable Impreza cost me £12K for a three and a half year old car plus £4K for mods. It's not exhorbitant - do the maths (although I suspect your intellect could make this a rather challenging proposition for you)

And why would I expect expect a 12-month warranty on a car where there was no warranty to begin with

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

Why would a mapper have to supply upgrades?

They have mapped your car to the best they can make it, so there is no need.

You really do sound

scooby L

Don't get wound up by Pete 14N

He likes to "discuss" everything to the finest detail... he calls it being thorough... we call it bloody minded

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

it does make for an amusing read, got to give him that

greatgonzo

iTrader: (1)

I love the banter keep it going