porteouz

iTrader: (1)

Whether your tyres are worn or not id be very suprised if your tracking doesnt need done after 10 years

SunnySideUp

Tracking doesn't need doing unless the Tyres tell you something isn't right ... tyres are fine = tracking is fine

scooby L

Another guy who's mapped one of my cars is Bob Rawle... he also took 2 hours
Mapping a car quickly is totally possible... but to do it in 30 minutes?... That would worry me.. just my opinion obviously

MaDaSS

Bob Rawle

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

He has mapped 2 Imprezas for me and will be doing the honours again for me shortly.

wrxcook

Just read this thread start to Finnish and was just wondering if you are qualified in any way to back up the what you have been saying throughout the thread, you are going against the advice off some if not the best mapper aforrest, to a fairly new member you sound like a key board hero and nothing else saying that, that is only my thoughts after reading the thread I could be wrong

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

How dare you question SSU's obvious technical skill and knowledge, he is the font of Subaru knowledge.

What he knows about Imprezas could be written on the back of a stamp (did I get that right? ).

As for being a keyboard warrior, how dare you!

SunnySideUp

Did the thread start in the UK but then end in Finland??

Strange what you say, as I (AND SUBARU) are talking the same language ..... but, then, maybe they don't know what they are talking about either

Subaru offer a 3 year warranty (which you can extend to 5 years and more) on their Maps ..... that kind of faith gives me security in what I am saying ...

GREENBUGY

iTrader: (4)

I had my car re maped from standard 4 days ago by andrew carr
My 2002 wrx has full 3" de cat inc up pipe and green panel filter and Walbro fuel pump(Sorry SSU but I believe a new pump to be cheap insurance against failiure of the 8 year old one that had done 50k that was in there) The car was mapped on tesco 99 and now pulls alot better.

In terms of fuel economy before map £10 = 50miles , £20 = 100miles ish etc...
After map I filled up with 99 and after 309miles my petrol light came on today

Draw your own conclusions......

SunnySideUp

Errrrm, you have given me no Data??

Yes, of course, how silly of me - I forgot that fuel pumps fail after 8 years and 50,000 miles Mine is clearly about to go as it is 10 years old and 98,000 miles ... HELP!!!

Come on, I have been driving for many decades ..... I have only known one pump fail, a Ford Zephyr pump in 1974 - it was mechanical and driven off the camshaft!!

Oh, yes, it failed too - BANG, GONE - it didn't gently weaken the mixture in the cylinders

Like I said, a tired old pump will still have most of the fuel pumped returned to the tank ..... I'll take my chances with what Subaru supplied and spend the money where it delivers more value

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

You will never convince SSU of anything other than his own opinion despite some well respected and more knowledgeable people (not myself by the way) within the Subaru community pointing things out to the contrary of his 'facts'.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in a democracy even if they are totally incorrect.

wrxcook

Must have mist that one. So what make you a genious and not a keyboard hero ? Or didn't you say?

urban

iTrader: (1)

**** me - you do some winding up on here.
And whats more worrying is the amount of people that take the bait

Being slightly more serious - remember that the mapping Engineers at Subaru messed up the map on the new Impreza hatch resulting in many of them blowing the engine

SunnySideUp

I'm a genius ... because I can spell it

Did your eyes mist over whilst reading my posts .. or did you mean you missed something? Yes, both words sound the same - but mean different things ....... I am left in no doubt that you could be convinced of anything

SunnySideUp

And there it is, again ..... please provide me with the facts and figures to back that up.

And I don't mean a few on here who have wrecked their engines .... why, we don't know - in reality. Have they messed about with their cars? Probably! have they thrashed them? More than likely.

I would need to know how many have been sold.

How many have blown up.

What mods were done to these cars.

How were they driven.

Without these figures no-one can say there is a mapping issue. Has Subaru issued a re-call? I haven't seen one.

scooby L

They've issued a recommended re-flash SSU.

Solution, significantly lower boost/torque request from 6.5k upwards. so not addressing the problem,just quick fixing it.

tathan

Why do you need facts and figures to refute things? You seem to get along perfectly well when you're making claims without any.

Can't have it both ways Pete...

urban

iTrader: (1)

I understand that Subaru reflashed the ECU to fix the "bad" map
Customers were asked to return vehicles to dealer for reflash as far as I know by I.M

ZEN Performance

Unfortunately subaru did 2 things. First they changed the rather reliable setup where the DBW throttle closes before the engine hits the fuel cut rev limiter. Instead the 2008 cars were initially allowed to crash the rev limiter while on full boost, and if held like that long enough they can easily crack the ringlands on the pistons.

Second, when they discovered the problem (which is well documented in the US) they did create a new map file, but they didn't do a recall. Instead it was implemented at service time, I guess they didn't want to look bad, or someone thought it wasn't a "real" problem.

As a result of these steps, just about every hatch STI on the original map sold by my local dealer has since either had the ECU reflash or a short engine (followed by an ECU reflash). Many people don't know it's happened because although the ringland can crack, the car drives pretty well, 95% as well as stock, the only sign is a significant oil consumption. But because Subaru also maintain that 1 litre of oil in 1000 miles is "acceptable" oil consumption, many of these failures were overlooked (or ignored) for quite a long time.

Incorrect. The pressure regulator can only maintain the target fuel pressure within the flow limits of the standard pump, running at the combined fuel pressure (ie base pressure plus boost). If you test for instance a 2005 WRX with PPP you will see that at peak power the fuel pressure drops below the desired pressure. The ECU map is altered slightly to compensate for this slight error. I would also argue that the pump provides the pressure, the regulator just regulates it. Before you mention standard cars, this thread covers a wide range of cars, standard and modified.

ZEN Performance

No it is not simple. The AFR for best power is not the richest AFR that the engine will run at. Therefore at certainl load points increasing the fuel input will reduce power, if you continue you add fuel you will create a misfire, and start to lose significant amounts of power.

Take the cruise zone, for arguments sake about 16% throttle, 0.3 bar of vacuum, and 3000rpm. Here the factory ECU will be trying to use the lambda sensor to maintain the AFR around 14.7:1 for the operation of the cat. Not a lot we can do here, if you lean the AFR you will lose power, so the throttle will have to be opened and you're going to be more or less back where you were (but some small improvements can be made if you don't need to run at exactly 14.7:1). But when you start to overtake gently, and you're at say 40% throttle, 3000rpm rising to 4000rpm, 0.5bar of boost. Here the factory ECU can sometimes run as rich as 11:1 AFR, which is very rich, the sort of AFR you might want to run at peak load, and we can probably get away with running more like 12:1, nearly a 10% decrease in fuel. We will be rewarded with slightly more power too, even if we find we have to retard the ignition timing a little to stave of detonatino (unlike on 97+ RON fuel). And it is here in the midrange that there are significant improvements to be made, especially as town driving involves so much part throttle, we can find that the average AFR is more like 12:1 rather than 14.7:1 that the politicians would like us to stick to.

Some manufacturers go further introducing a "lean spool" function to provide a shorter burst of lean running before richening up to prevent excessive heat in the pistons (less fuel means more heat up to a point). While some (like subaru) have a delay in allowing the transition from closed loop 14.7:1 running to open loop. And for subarus, the skill of mapper can be key here, since you can feel an STI 8 staying in closed loop during spool, and it feels MUCH nicer to allow open loop running of say 13:1 dropping to 11.x:1 on spool, but too far and the MPG suffers.

Why don't you ask your rocket engineer buddies what happens when you add too much HC but no oxidant?

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

We all now await your next post with baited breath Sunny Side Up...

GREENBUGY

iTrader: (4)

Personally I cant wait....

SunnySideUp

"Just about every"?

How many was sold by said Dealer?

How many have had trouble?

How many have had a short engine?

I assume each and every one has had the re-flash?

Who was said Dealer?

And who the hell hits the rev limiter? I never get close to 6,000 RPM! No need to ..... so, only those who treat their cars with zero Mechanical sympathy, will have issues (or those who choose to push beyond the limits Subaru set?).

SunnySideUp

You would be wrong to argue that, then.

The pump has a flow rate ... not a pressure - or they would be sold with a pressure, but of course they are sold by flow rate. The pressure is created by pipe diameter, regulator etc. ... the fuel regualtor is sometimes called a pressure regulator (quite rightly) - I wonder why that may be then?

SunnySideUp

I don't have to ask my Rocket Engineer buddies .... if I did, they would give the very same answer as I will right now.

Subaru is fully aware of all you write above, if what you say is true. They know what the issues are and they know how to overcome them, they know how to map to get the best out of the engine, they know how to get the best mpg and the most power consistent with reliability which has gone down in folklore .... to suggest that hobbyists know more than these top class, degree educated, Engineers is a myth.

Mappers need to compromise, away from the Subaru ideal .... remember, Subaru back their maps with a warranty (extendable to many years), I'm still awaiting the length of Warranty a mapper offers?

Let's assume that the Warranty offered is, what? 12 months/12,000 miles? That doesn't tell me that they have the confidence in their maps which Subaru have, seems a very reasonable assumption?

What is the Mappers Warranty?

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

well said

Next time I see an old fella wearing a flat cap and smoking a pipe driving an impreza I'll give you a wave SSU - although you'll be telling me next that you wont wave to subaru owners who cant keep their cars standard

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

So then SSU why would Subaru write a new map for the Hatchback if there were no problem with the original map? I have also spoken to a technician from a Subaru dealer and the Hatchback STi failures are more common than you believe as well.

Excuse me as well but aren't the Subaru turbocharged flat four engines designed to be driven with 'vigour'? Do you consider going to 6000rpm to be driving without 'mechanical sumpathy'? These engines are designed to be driven hard, you don't need to have them bouncing off the rev limiter all the time but they can withstand it if they are serviced and maintained properly.

For your information I would just like to inform you that the rev limiter on my car is set to 8500rpm but I do not rev to it but certainly above 6000rpm as the engine on my S202 is designed to be able to 'take it'.

Could you also respond to the points raised by Zen Performance in regards to the original question or are you waiting to consult with your fellow Rocket Scientists.

SunnySideUp

I wave to all Scooby Owners .....

If they have been daft enough to modify their cars, thus making them as relaible as a TVR - I will stop and pick them up/ring the Braekdown people for them too if needed.

I love it when, for all their 500 BHP, I can still beat them to the next corner ..... I have many decades of experience - you kiddies need the extra power just to keep up with the likes of us skilled drivers

DaveD

iTrader: (2)

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.....

Forget about power and mpg, Subaru haven't mapped for that, they have mapped the engine for reliability, over-fuelling parts of the map to be on the safe side, keeping ingition advance low, just in case someone chucks in some 3-star on their travels.

Therefore it is the Subaru map that is a compromise, and because of that, isn't necessarily the most fuel efficient.

Yet, remapping needn't reduce the reliability of the engine either, it just optimises the fuel / spark scheduling to get the best out of an engine that Subaru are very conservative with.

My import WRX has run 200,000 miles, many with a ScoobyECU fitted, which hasn't caused any problem whatsoever.

Oh yeah, Subaru have provided a showroom remap (remember PPP?) - I don't recall that ever making warranties invalid?!

SunnySideUp

Who was this then? Billy the work experience guy?

I have just got off the phone to a very good friend at the top of Subaru UK - he has told me that there is no issue .... just a reflash to stop idiots hitting the rev limiters and causing problems ... see, anyone can make up anything they like and post it here!!