STI 8 vs Spec C
16 February 2010, 10:11 AM
#91
LOL at shaun, nowhere have i said a Spec C isnt the better option for out and out track use, i know i would be quicker in one, but if you read my previous posts i'm explaining things a little deaper than that. I was asked to prove that you can beat a Spec C with a JDM STi, which is why i put the scoobysprint info up, to show that i'm not talking out my aris on that point. I've proven it to be posible twice out of two attempts, i've also proven even a relative stock JDM STi can be a lot quicker than highly modified cars with 300KG less to lug around, in an environment where stopping, turning that mass and then accelerating it is very important, i.e what you do on a road.
Rickya, Trying to use those videos to prove a point is a waste of time, there are so many driving errors it makes the comparisons worthless. (at 3:11 they say the hawkeye is 20kg heavier by the way).
I don't think you are taking on board the point I've been making about the cars either, i haven't said the Spec C isn't a better track biased car, what i have said it's a pretty small difference and taking other factors into account, a normal STi is a good option for most people, and I've explained why that is, scoobyc is understanding the point i am making.
With regards to the handling changes, first of all you have to define which blobeye version you are referring to, because there are major changes in the transmition from MY to MY on the blobeye, there was a step change in spec from MY04 to MY05. I've never had sudden unexpected oversteer in my MY05 Blobeye, it does what i expect it to do, with me altering the cars attitude with throttle inputs, if you think driving is all about keeping your foot mashed to the floor and holding on then maybe a more understeer biased car is what you need, but if you are interested in having the most exploitable chassis then you would probably prefer what the pre hawkeye can offer.
It's not just me that prefers the MY05 torque split, very prominent Subaru chassis specialists I've talked to have told me they also prefer the more rear biased setup and told the Subaru technicians they made a mistake going more forward biased. I'm not going to name them, but they know more about the road cars than people like Makinen ever will, just as Makinen knows more about how to drive a WRC car. I always find it amusing when they get a high profile person to put their name to a cars development, as though that makes it better, PR is a wonderful thing.
Rickya, Trying to use those videos to prove a point is a waste of time, there are so many driving errors it makes the comparisons worthless. (at 3:11 they say the hawkeye is 20kg heavier by the way).
I don't think you are taking on board the point I've been making about the cars either, i haven't said the Spec C isn't a better track biased car, what i have said it's a pretty small difference and taking other factors into account, a normal STi is a good option for most people, and I've explained why that is, scoobyc is understanding the point i am making.
With regards to the handling changes, first of all you have to define which blobeye version you are referring to, because there are major changes in the transmition from MY to MY on the blobeye, there was a step change in spec from MY04 to MY05. I've never had sudden unexpected oversteer in my MY05 Blobeye, it does what i expect it to do, with me altering the cars attitude with throttle inputs, if you think driving is all about keeping your foot mashed to the floor and holding on then maybe a more understeer biased car is what you need, but if you are interested in having the most exploitable chassis then you would probably prefer what the pre hawkeye can offer.
It's not just me that prefers the MY05 torque split, very prominent Subaru chassis specialists I've talked to have told me they also prefer the more rear biased setup and told the Subaru technicians they made a mistake going more forward biased. I'm not going to name them, but they know more about the road cars than people like Makinen ever will, just as Makinen knows more about how to drive a WRC car. I always find it amusing when they get a high profile person to put their name to a cars development, as though that makes it better, PR is a wonderful thing.
16 February 2010, 10:35 AM
#92
I think our opinions will differ on this one John 
But the same way you think trying to compare test results from the video I posted is a waste of time, the same could be said for your Scoobysprint statistics trying to prove otherwise. I do think that the development Sti did with the Hawkeye & the video I posted above is more than PR fluff & would be wrong IMO to simply tar it all with that brush.
ps I dont think that driving is all about "keeping your foot mashed to the floor & holding on", hence I bouhgt a Spec C & do try & do a few trackdays during the year & spent a lot of my younger years on a go karting track!
But the same way you think trying to compare test results from the video I posted is a waste of time, the same could be said for your Scoobysprint statistics trying to prove otherwise. I do think that the development Sti did with the Hawkeye & the video I posted above is more than PR fluff & would be wrong IMO to simply tar it all with that brush.
ps I dont think that driving is all about "keeping your foot mashed to the floor & holding on", hence I bouhgt a Spec C & do try & do a few trackdays during the year & spent a lot of my younger years on a go karting track!
Last edited by rickya; 16 February 2010 at 10:41 AM.
16 February 2010, 11:12 AM
#93
I'm not trying to prove anything rickya, I'm just giving the information that might help the thread starter make an informed choice. He was interested in the model differences, I've pretty much covered them and given some background information to help work out how important the differences might be to him.
I didn't say the video was PR Fluff, you seem to be mixing up my comment with the PR that goes on getting a named driver on board. I said the video was pretty useless at determining the cars performance, as there are lots of driver errors in them, the video showing the Spec C against the STi is a prime example of a crap execution of a tight turn, all down to the driver.
Good for you re your driving experiences, it's all good fun, which is what these cars are about.
I didn't say the video was PR Fluff, you seem to be mixing up my comment with the PR that goes on getting a named driver on board. I said the video was pretty useless at determining the cars performance, as there are lots of driver errors in them, the video showing the Spec C against the STi is a prime example of a crap execution of a tight turn, all down to the driver.
Good for you re your driving experiences, it's all good fun, which is what these cars are about.
16 February 2010, 11:13 AM
#94
I'm not trying to prove anything rickya, I'm just giving the information that might help the thread starter make an informed choice. He was interested in the model differences, I've pretty much covered them and given some background information to help work out how important the differences might be to him.
I didn't say the video was PR Fluff, you seem to be mixing up my comment with the PR that goes on getting a named driver on board. I said the video was pretty useless at determining the cars performance, as there are lots of driver errors in them, the video showing the Spec C against the STi is a prime example of a crap execution of a tight turn, all down to the driver.
Good for you re your driving experiences, it's all good fun, which is what these cars are about.
I didn't say the video was PR Fluff, you seem to be mixing up my comment with the PR that goes on getting a named driver on board. I said the video was pretty useless at determining the cars performance, as there are lots of driver errors in them, the video showing the Spec C against the STi is a prime example of a crap execution of a tight turn, all down to the driver.
Good for you re your driving experiences, it's all good fun, which is what these cars are about.
ps I do occasionaly mash my foot to the floor.........especially if Im up against a 911 GT3 at the lights!! lolol
Last edited by rickya; 16 February 2010 at 11:15 AM.
16 February 2010, 01:13 PM
#95
Scooby Regular
John,
Some people are not interested in things "deep", unless you are female!
I understand why you put your reference up about your car and ScoobySprint (I would if I had been you lol), but unless the same driver is in both cars the results are pretty meaningless as a true comparison. I'm sure you agree with that. I'm sure someone like Seb Loeb could be quicker than you and your STi, in a Fiat Panda for instance.
My Spec C's achievements this year is similar to your comparison. Heaviest car in the top 5 and giving away power and a fair amount of weight to some other competitors in the top 5, but still managed to do the business. Whilst I fully accept the car was good set-up wise, a fair amount of the achievement was down to the "weapon of mass destruction" behind the wheel.
Basically John.... the words "John" and "Agree" have been excluded from my brain logic when being used in the same path! 
Some people are not interested in things "deep", unless you are female!
I understand why you put your reference up about your car and ScoobySprint (I would if I had been you lol), but unless the same driver is in both cars the results are pretty meaningless as a true comparison. I'm sure you agree with that.
I'm sure someone like Seb Loeb could be quicker than you and your STi, in a Fiat Panda for instance. My Spec C's achievements this year is similar to your comparison. Heaviest car in the top 5 and giving away power and a fair amount of weight to some other competitors in the top 5, but still managed to do the business. Whilst I fully accept the car was good set-up wise, a fair amount of the achievement was down to the "weapon of mass destruction" behind the wheel.
Basically John.... the words "John" and "Agree" have been excluded from my brain logic when being used in the same path!
16 February 2010, 01:24 PM
#96
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Seb Loeb in a Fiat Panda vs Felly in his STi, my money is on Felly any day of the week.
I have to agree with John when I came to buy my car having driven the Spec C STi I went for the GL spec with drivers pack STi in 2003. On the road it is rare you are going to make the weight difference count. The OP however states he would take the scoob on the track once a month and on that basis get the Spec 'C' and make sure it is the one with the bigger hubs i.e. MY05 onwards
I have to agree with John when I came to buy my car having driven the Spec C STi I went for the GL spec with drivers pack STi in 2003. On the road it is rare you are going to make the weight difference count. The OP however states he would take the scoob on the track once a month and on that basis get the Spec 'C' and make sure it is the one with the bigger hubs i.e. MY05 onwards
16 February 2010, 06:06 PM
#97
Bring Seb on, that would be hilarious.
The OP said he would possibly do 6 track days per year, once every two months if you average it out, which is not a lot of the % of time the car will be used.
The OP said he would possibly do 6 track days per year, once every two months if you average it out, which is not a lot of the % of time the car will be used.
16 February 2010, 08:33 PM
#98
Scooby Regular
What's the fascination with bigger hubs for a road car.... I can't say my piddly MY03 hubs have caused my car any problems. 
Spen555,
I can tell the weight difference immediately between driving a newage "bloater" and a Spec C. As much as I can tell the difference between having an additional 14.5 stone passenger and not having one, in the Spec C. How you measure that difference in performance, as you suggest, is difficult on the road..... but you certainly feel the difference in the way the car performs.
John,
I would rather see you up against Mr de Banke if I was perfectly honest! If he did not wipe you out, I would have to kill him! I believe there was supposed to be a planned "but fun" showdown at the ScoobySprint Final, in James's car..... unfortunately when I tossed him my keys I suspect his focus changed somewhat.
Spen555,
I can tell the weight difference immediately between driving a newage "bloater" and a Spec C. As much as I can tell the difference between having an additional 14.5 stone passenger and not having one, in the Spec C. How you measure that difference in performance, as you suggest, is difficult on the road..... but you certainly feel the difference in the way the car performs.
John,
I would rather see you up against Mr de Banke if I was perfectly honest!
If he did not wipe you out, I would have to kill him! I believe there was supposed to be a planned "but fun" showdown at the ScoobySprint Final, in James's car..... unfortunately when I tossed him my keys I suspect his focus changed somewhat.
17 February 2010, 02:05 PM
#99
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I have read this all with intrest at the end of the day either a JDM/euro model spec-c/blob/ hawk etc etc a few pounds and a few handling tweeks in the real world dont really matter, on track its totally different and its mostly down to the driver as John well knows and has explained, as for SDB after watching him have a play in his beemer at santa pod's round of scooby sprint it would have been nice to see what time he achived in that against a scoob or should I say the scoobs average time over the course.
