Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Oh dear.... although i appreciate the rolling road day and good organisation it does appear that RS Tuning dont know what they are doing .

I may be jumping to conclusions here but everyone bar a few people are a little miffed of their low readings, plus the tyre slip on the rollers, and now the fan....

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

tyre slip too ?

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

hope he wasnt running the cars up in reverse gear.could explain the low figures.(only joking)

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

I had Silverstone cuts on, they seem to run without slip, but then i was in the booth watching the dyno screen not the car. There was a few cars that pushed to the burning rubber stage, but yet nobody lept passed the eleged 340...

RS asked me what i was pushing prior to the dyno run, he said if over 400 the dyno doesnt like my tyres. I was expecting 300ish, although with the issues** i was having 290 was realistic.... So maybe i did get some tyre slip??

**misfire on all 4 cylinders & low circuit NPS

carl swailes

iTrader: (1)

Yes you had a lot to compete with

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

In that case mine was the best Uk300 on the day too

Turbo Tez

iTrader: (8)

I agree, there was not a better looking 300 there all day.

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Thanks you mate lol.

When is the next meeting and how often do you guys hold the WYIOC meets? It might be worth my while joining up.


Rob

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

my car hit 345

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

what is this alleged 340 level ?

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

no idea,i didn't understand where it came from either ???

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Sorry must allaborate...

alleged 340 was the highest bhp on the day (but i stand corrected it was 345 with tweaks)

However almost everyone expected more power so that was my elleged part.... the cars were pushing a figure that was well out of the expected power runs, more so lower than higher.... so many cars not hitting expected power levels . So the cars were allegedly hitting X Bhp but its actualy more?

I mean the RB320 (317bhp) ran 290....
The CLio 200 (197bhp) hit 180

I was hoping for some rolling road exact power runs, not 'trye slip', 'fan wrongly positioned' etc... However I've never been to RS tuning before so i dint know what to expect.

Sorry for the lack of understanding.... and of course my lack of knowledge
Rob

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Update:

gary d

iTrader: (2)

hi rob the next meeting is on the 11th feb at the ship in mirfield or there is the eom at squires on the 25th if you cant make ship hope this helps emma

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Excellent thanks Emma.

Rob

dunx

iTrader: (3)

I'm glad I'm skint.... would hate to see mine ONLY make 345 bhp.

Sorry Tweaks.

dunx

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

i thought yours was only running 300 anyway dunx.

budd

iTrader: (5)

Hi Guys
It was an interesting day at RS, and I have to say pretty much par for the course re anticipated power figures, it always seems to be the same, modded cars quite often don’t live up to expectations. And it’s natural to blame the RR/operators / tyre slip/ weather/ position of the sun relative to the earth etc etc , but the fact is the figures are probably accurate, after all the Clio (the best datum on the day) produced 180 which is pretty much what you’d expect given how factories measure HP (ie bench tested with no ancillaries, gearbox losses etc) even the RB320, approx 27bhp down on claimed which can be accounted for by Subaru been a little optimistic in their claims and also build tolerances have an effect after all these aren’t hand built motors there will always be good and bad engines. The car that really confuses me is the dark blue one, (Carl1975?) that made 222bhp which I think surprised everyone particularly it’s owner who was delighted, the point is if the rollers were under reading due to whatever factors then this car should really only be making 180ish, so what’s the truth?
Is Carls car just a freak result ? is there something suspicious going on a RS ? or (and I think most likely) do owners of modded cars have unrealistic expectations? I guess it’s only natural to expect to see some return for all the time and money spent, but more often than not all this hard work simply doesn’t deliver.
So it’s back to the drawing board for some.
Also which was the best car on the day? My vote goes to Carl’s blue ‘beast’ perhaps beast is overstating it but it is unquestionably a very strong car given it’s relatively original condition, great result

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Compared to yours it looks closer to 265....

How's your epic engine build going ?

dunx

P.S. Coops can you do a lappy "run" on mine please, AET doing a dyno run ! Then we can calibrate your figures to AET's...

Carlos 1975

iTrader: (1)

Budd, your the man i like your thoughts dude , just went to stand up and i nearly fell over cos my head had just swollen to twice it's normal size . The reason i put it on the road originally was to see how good a base model i have bought before i go and start modding it, but like you say it make me wonder how far to take it without throwing money away. i think i'll go for full decat exhaust, panel filter and ecu upgrade and hopefully that will be me happy with the engine, and hopefully i should get a nice 280hp road car??? or may 245??#

Carl

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

regarding the modded cars making lower power..

i think it depends on how they have been mapped, most modded have been road mapped, i dont know the technicalities and differences between road mapping and dyno mapping but mine didnt make full boost on the dyno..

it was mapped to 1.8 bar and only made 1.6..

hopefully someone with more knowledge can explain

budd

iTrader: (5)

In theory you could expect 280 with the changes you mention, but life isn’t that simple, firstly a RR power run isn’t a diagnostic run so they don’t pay much attention to what the engine is actually doing, they just strap’em on do the power runs and off again.
I’d recommend a proper diagnostic run where everything is checked ( boost, timing, fuelling, injector duration etc) it’s possible your car as had some subtle work already.
Once you have a idea of how the engine is running then plan your mods, but try to have all the work done at he same time, IMHO one of the reasons some modded cars don’t produce what could reasonably be expected is the mods are often done in a ad hoc sort of way, parts added and changes made sometimes mapped to suit sometimes not, as with everything balance is the important thing. Each new part changes how the engine behaves, how each relates to the next, the trick is to make each part complement the next, it’s possible to spend a fortune on bits and not get the desired results, and that’s not to say there’s anything wrong with the specific parts it’s just that some combinations work better, it’s a bit of a ‘black art’ and that’s why it’s important to find a tuner you trust and that won’t just sell you parts for the sake of it.
Set out a realistic goal, then plan what is needed to obtain this goal, once you’ve got it all fitted setup and achieved your goal then leave well along, this is the hardest part!!!
Unfortunately with turbo cars the temptation is always there to push for a little more, tweak this and that but usually this tinkering leads to problems, but it’s a dilemma because part of the fun of this type of car is the constant search for that bit extra, it’s very satisfying to find something that works well.

I think the motto should be ‘do it right and do it once’, ensuring that the basic engine is up to the job of safely supporting the required power output is important, but by for the most important thing is mapping, this ought to optimise everything and should (if the parts have been chosen correctly) provide the requisite power, but this is down to the skill of the ‘mapper’ whether it’s mapped on the road or on the rollers the end result will depend on the guy on the keyboard.

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

haha ^^^ made me chuckle......suppose as far as the results were going its not bad but you know when you specced the car for a 'magic' number you expect abit less,this was nowhere near my expected less
plus there are a few niggles that the car threw up to get sorted,niggles i didn't expect !!!

Tim

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

oh dunx i could tell you how my build was going on but by the time i had finished telling you we will both have died of old age,hoping to have it back by the time they have invented nuclear powered hover crafts.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

This will be due to the dyno not loading the engine enough to make full boost, the only way round this is to have a boost controller with gear based boost control e.g. apexi avcr and turn up the duty for which ever gear you run it in.

Banny

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Banny - did you see the dyno sheets. Not loaded at all before starting the run and starting at 2700rpm ... its never going to make proper boost like that.

Either start at 2000 or 2500 and pre-load engine before starting the run to give them a fighting chance of doing it. Maybe if the dyno place is used to non turbo cars they do it differently but everywhere I have dyno'd mine gets as near as dammit full boost on the dyno and pre-loads the engine to build some boost before starting the run at 2500 or starts much lower.

Is Budd the dyno operator? ... If so can he explain what effect the big fan will have on the tmic if pointed just at the radiator?

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

He has a Mitsi Lancer Evo parked outside .

Im prepared to give them another shot at RS, but im getting bad vibes about their lack of knowledge.

Rob

hostagekilla

Well I'm more than happy with my old wagon
She left the factory with 208 bhp 12 years ago and all I've done to it is fit a 2.5" straight through stainless exhaust. I was expecting about 180-190bhp, and I was well impressed when I got 214.1bhp out of the old girl

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Have you had since new... If not how do you know there is no modifications?

Rob

hostagekilla

I've only had it six months now. It's had six previous owners before me As far as I can tell the only mods done to it are a front strut brace, sway bars and drilled discs. I can't see any bolt on goodies in the engine bay anywhere. I'm guessing the exhaust is what's given it a bit more power