harvey

iTrader: (48)

Bloody hell Bob. That is some spool. Good luck with it.

Bob Rawle

Well thinks are looking up, the new intercooler kit arrived from Hyperflow this morning so all systems are go again, gave me time to have a think about the best way to wire in the Bosch 044 Motorsport pump.

The pump switching relay will be wired off the output of the fuel pump controller, so when the ecu control's the Prodrive pump in tank which now acts as the lift pump, it will also control the 044 in the same way. All I needed to do was reprogram the fuel controller settings to run at 100% all the time, simple really. Last thing I want is that Bosch running continuously when the ignition is on and the engine off.

more soon

Bob Rawle

Well things never go to plan especially with this project, turbo compressor cover is a major foul on the inlet manifold, sourced a JDM manifold to clear but not too happy with the solution required to mate to a DBW throttle body.

So we reverted to plan A and the turbo compressor cover is away being machined to clear.

Thats good news as the original plan can be kept to, that was always about uprating a European STi not making a JDM hybrid.

So no Xmas present yet like last year but this will be worth the wait.

Big thanks to Iain Litchfield and Dan, nothing is too much trouble and getting it right is always the priority.

cheers all

bob

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

updating on xmas day bob? Hope you have time to fit in some turkey and mince pies!! Merry christmas ps got a new present/plan for mine now too will reveal all when i see you in Feb

Bob Rawle

Hi Iain, had to be done !!

Merry Xmas look forward to hearing about this.

cheers

bob

Andy.F

Do you really want both fuel pumps running at 100% duty all the time the engine is running, even at idle? Seems like a waste of power and an unnecessary source of heat input to the fuel which could potentially cause issues in warmer weather.

Bob Rawle

Hi Andy Merry Xmas, glad you think the same about fuel temps as I do, can be a major problem under certain conditions. And thanks for your interest in my project.

Since the fuel pump controller produces a modified wave output to reduce the applied voltage its actually just as likely to create heat when doing that due to the switching losses. And the pump will be running well outside of its optimum efficiency point.

The lift pump is not going to create significant heat, it will be running under "light" load irrespective of applied voltage and I would rather have the fuel supply to the swirl pot at a consistent level of pressure and flow than it being modified by the controller.

As for as the Bosch pump I am much happier having the power relay switched with the fuel pump controller output since that puts the ecu in command of its on or off points.

It will certainly be running quite high pressure at idle and light injector duties, a recent car I mapped with a fuel system similar to this showed an idle fuel pressure of 4.2 bar, the adjustable reg fitted to this particular car could not bring it down. Not a problem in application though. I may need to experiment with pressure regulator design a bit.

I have a Bosch Motorsport 044 as opposed to the standard 044 pump in the car and the pipe runs are very short to the fuel rails so next to no pressure drop.

As higher fuel pressures allow better fuel atomisation then this can only add to the driving experience and, of course, increase the injector range.

Both fuel and oil cooling are the subject of a "plan" and once I have settled the car into its specification and benchmarked both parameters in detail I will have a solid base to progress from. There will be more R & D to come in those areas.

Fortunately I no longer use the car as a daily drive and so have time to work on things in a more considered way these days which is why this current part of the upgrade has taken the time it has.

cheers

bob

Andy.F

Merry Christmas to you also Bob

I should think that with the OE fuel tank and a reasonable fuel load in there, that in your case any temperature issues will be minimal.
I mainly come across the issue with race spec cars running small tanks and high capacity pumps. With the Syvecs its not such an issue as the multi pump installs can be set up to come on sequentially based on IDC.
A related issue you have probably observed in highly loaded fuel systems is the alternator loading control, its not unknown for the charging rate to wind down just as its needed most at full boost. This can result in a step change in full load Lambda which is not ideal.

Bob Rawle

I've only really found big troubles when mapping on the rollers with less than 1/3 tank so as you say should be ok with it. Small race spec systems are the real bug bear as you say.

Ultimately I anticipate I will probably end up fitting a Syvecs into the car, but given the OEM ecu is so capable it would be rude not to give it a go first especially now we have Race Rom.

I've found MY04 Sti's are the worst for the alternator loading control problem, if the side lights are kept on that seems to stop it going off on one but even so.

cheers

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

I knew I wasn't crazy leaving the side lights on all the time. I noticed the voltage drop when they weren't on, so I leave them on all the time

Bob Rawle

Yup, definitely a sensible thing to do.

cheers

bob

Caged "R"

iTrader: (4)

Are they a 'smart charge' system then?

Bob Rawle

Sort of, not that smart though otherwise wot would disable it.

cheers

bob

Andy.F

You can map it out on the pre DBW cars but not as far as I'm aware on the 06 onwards 2.5's
It can be a problem on big bhp cars if you're not aware of it.

Bob Rawle

Dependant on the rom file used, I have got used to using my sidelights all the time so I never see this as an issue. In fact I have never seen it as an issue on a dbw car period. I always log battery volts.

The extra electrical load from the Bosch pump should be enough on its own.

But part of the feedback will involve all the smaller details like this, most projects are just about power and torque levels, all good and nice to have big numbers but thats not really what a fast road vehicle is all about, and the devil is in the detail.

cheers

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

Hmmm, wonders if I should be running round with my side lights on now, as Ive a 04 sti (mapped by you Bob at API a few weeks back)... At what point, "bhp", does it become a problem, just so Im aware.
Thanks?

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

If you've got anything that can check the voltage being produced, check it.

My car would drop from 14.7v with the lights on, to 12v and below without them on. I always thought to myself that it's the silly smart alternator, and wondered if it would ever affect anything like power to the fuel pump/spark plugs etc, so have always ran with my sidelights on.

Bob Rawle

That you cliff?

bob

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

It is Bob!

cliff

Ive ordered a digital voltage gauge from "Alleymotorsport" but Im flapping (as usual) about the RCM pump.

Bob Rawle

Hi thought so, you have a Simtek ecu, that doesn't do anything with the alternator it runs properly all the time its only the OEM ecu that try's to be clever.

best regards

bob

Dave Y

iTrader: (52)

morning Bob a good read most of it baffles me though.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hi Bob,

Happy new year.

What are the implications of this voltage drop you refer to?

(07Sti forged SC46 conversion standard ECU with Racerom)

Should I just leave the sidelights on?

Best,

Paul

paulT25

Hi Bob , and happy new year.
Intresting posting, and I too find it baffling,
I had my T25 with Syvecs ecu mappped by your good self, I presume that I do not need to keep my side lights on either?
Paul.

Bob Rawle

OEM ecu's only so Syvecs fine in your car Paul.

Paul P you have no issue at all in this respect, its good practice to use side lights though as driving lights. (safety).

As was posted above it can affect "big" power cars using the OEM ecu, but only certain rom files.

Dave hi hope you have a good night see you in the new year I expect you just keep modding !!

cheers

bob

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

Thanks Bob, for putting my mind at rest.
HNY and all the best with your "project"...... Im watchin

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

every time i see a scooby driving around in the daylight with their side lights on, i'll think they'll have read this thread!

Andy.F

Lol, its not a problem if you have for example a 400bhp car with a 500bhp fuel pump (such as walbro 255) as the pump still has the capacity to maintain flow against the FP reg with a 10% drop in voltage, so you still get the same fuel pressure.
The problem comes when say you have a 550bhp car that runs a 600bhp pump such as an 044, there can be a drop in fuel pressure when the pump runs on 12.x volts instead of 13.7volts.

Bob Rawle

I don't think you can be that black and white with it to be honest, I've seen effects on a wide ranging level of cars. But the headroom in the fuel system you have is certainly a big minimiser if its great enough as that will cover the reduction in supply over the demand of the engine as mentioned.

I've "pinned" the topic towards the top of my list of things to assess, once I have the b car back on the road of course.

cheers

bob

Ferry

Hi Bob,

Looking forward to your FMIC and induction kit install. I am also looking at installing a Hyperflow FMIC and RCM big MAF induction kit. However, I was told that the RCM induction kit won't fit with the intercooler pipework. Will you modify the intercooler pipework?

Bob Rawle

Hi, yes it fits I will be posting some pics.

The big maf kit is not "RCM" its mine (BRD), just to clarify that as they are my supplier of it and don't retail it (or shouldn't).

cheers

bob