jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

I'd love to know what pads my STI has, my brakes are really sharp cold or hot. It's on std brembos and all I hear about them is they're rubbish, mine feel amazing.

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

Bob, spoke to Iain today & he mentioned this thread, i did,nt know it existed on the engine build, as i have had a few people mention the engine, but did'nt know where from, i must get my head out of engines & look on here.

Impressive that its not used any oil at all during run in, one thing the 14mm conversion was done by me, not RCM, but with there studs.

On the subject of cryo treatment, i have just had a EG33 block & crank done, i was expecting a line hone as its a good 140mm longer than the 4 cyl EJ257, but when mocked up was perfect, although it was a used block, not a green new one like yours.

Bob Rawle

Hi Paul, yes to be absolutely clear the 14mm head stud conversion work itself was done by your good self using the conversion kit sold by Roger Clark Motorsport.

I have the view that the 2.5 block, by nature of its design, is significantly affected by distortion so I would not expect the EG33 to show a particular problem given its design is completely different. Its not just about distortion though the Cryo process changes and toughens the material structure and is a big benefit in its own right. So for me well worth doing.

Not much else to update on except that the car is now mapped to the point that I drive it without thinking about it, its nearly dyno time.

Also an update on oil consumption, the engine has almost unbelievably covered nearly 4000 miles now, I will have to stop traveling around so much mapping cars, oil consumption is still nothing, I have 2 litres of top up in the garage and it looks like thats where its going to stay as well.

That said it may all change when the big turbo etc goes on, currently running the stock turbo at 1.6 bar which is no real load in engine terms. It will not hold that up to the red line of course.

cheers

bob

A significant amount of further work has gone into the throttle mapping especially the tip out from idle.

Ricky

Good luck with the build Bob. Looking forward to the updates ! Your now making me think twice about buying a Spec C 2.0L. LOL

Ricky !

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Bob,

Just curious, would most of this thread apply to the 2008- Hatch STi's too - fly by wire, 2.5 engine build etc.?

I know the race rom will work for them too, waiting for that!

Neil

greg320

iTrader: (15)

whats the maximum boost you could run with racerom,without removing the safety parameters of the ecu

MartynJ

2 bar Mark.

greg320

iTrader: (15)

cheers martyn

Bob Rawle

You could run more than that in practice though it just need a couple of settings to be tweaked to suit. Its necessary to do that with the diesels due to their rom file architecture, for example. But any max boost limit is not only related to race rom of course a std rom file can be run with the same boost levels.

I have also had cars using the GC8 jecs running at well over the 1.7 bar limit by similar means. Not recommended on the Jecs though as the maf will be killed stone dead if you up the ante to drive the output past 5 volts.

Yes this thread could be applied to the MY08 onwards car, they have variable inlet and exhaust cams but that aside everything can read across.

Bit of an update on oil consumption, well past 4000 miles now and ... still not using. We will see.

best regards

bob

Ricky

Eagerly anticipating more progress Bob ! Cant wait actually !

Bob Rawle

Been quiet as I've been on holiday, went to Tunisia, for 12 days from 23rd Feb. Decided that a bit of civil unrest wasn't going to stop me. Lots of story's I could tell including the afternoon in Tunis when we walked out of the Medina straight into the protest camp, wondered what all the razor wire and heavy metal was doing there, backed out quietly.

But no problems despite probably being one of the very few westerners in the country at that time. great people, they are all sorted out now so I would recommend it.

So nothing too much more to report on the car at the moment, close to 5000 miles and, yes you guessed it, the top up oil container is still sealed.

Iain Litchfield has just about completed testing the billet wheels for his twin scroll turbo range, so time is getting near for the next steps to be taken.

I am off to Slovenia to map some cars tomorrow for a few days then off to Malta again to map another car at the end of the month. Once back plans will be made.

cheers

bob

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

When you mention oil, is this for the engine or your tan...?

Ricky

Well Bob........ any further updates ???? Cant wait to hear your views especially on these new turbo's !!!!

Bob Rawle

Hi all, been trying to upload some pics but looks like I have got to a limit of some sorts, so no pics with this post.

I have put off sorting out the brakes for longer than I should, the Performance Friction option was the favourite but I had not managed to get anything like decent pricing from PF themselves, long story short I contacted Alyn at A S Performance as it had been pointed out to me that he was a PF dealer.

For the front's the option was clear, PF two piece discs and the PF Z rated pads, there were, however, several options that could be used for the rear's. I decided to go for Brembo Sport rear discs and, again, the PF Z rated pads.

Alyn's service was fantastic, very competitive pricing, a sensible carriage charge and all the parts were dispatched and arrived on next day service.

So last Sunday afternoon I removed the old and installed the new, no problems in doing this, all the old discs came off easily and the installation of the new parts was very easy.

Then out to do some testing in which showed what a good choice this is for a fast road car. During the week they have continued to bed in and are getting better and better.

very happy indeed

bob

Bob Rawle

The next phase of the engine is now more than overdue but I simply have not been able to focus on it due to being very busy.

But here is the latest ...

Iain Litchfield has now completed testing his billet LM turbo's so there is now a turbo potentially available that should allow a 550 bhp target to be achieved using pump fuel (V Power). I am very inclined towards the twin scroll route.

So the plan could be ...

Headers/up pipe: - standard JDM spec twin scroll, they work extremely well and I have not yet come across an aftermarket design to match these, no porting etc as I have found that even that can compromise their function.

Turbo: - LM500 billet

Downpipe: - RCM 3" twin scroll (single scroll d-pipe then for sale)

Fuel system: - parallel fuel rails with adjustable fpr fed from a swirl pot using a Bosch 044 motorsport pump. This will keep the pressure drops very low and allow an easy option to introduce a fuel cooler if needed. the lift pump can stay as now and I will not need to change the in car fuel lines. The swirl pot can occupy the space normally reserved for the secondary air pump.

Injectors: - 800cc Ecutek injectors, these are great, work just like the stock ones with great atomisation.

Sump: - is already twin scroll but will migrate to a Group N fully baffled one from RCM.

Induction: - bit of an open item this one, I would like to use the Litchfield CAK but as of now its only available for the MY08 onwards, something to talk about to see if it could be used, maf tube is larger and the filter is a decent size. I can obviously just do whatever and use the speed density ecu feature but I want to back to back the maf and SD systems as part of the project.

Intercooler: - there are several options available, of these the Hyper-flow system has advantages as its a very straight forward fit and efficient. I don't want to have to make up custom pipes etc, this kit is available for the hawkeye and is bolt on. The front bumper obviously needs a trim though.

That covers the majority of the next step.

The engine is now over 7k miles and due to be switched onto fully synthetic at the next oil change.

Consumption has remained fantastic, I did add 0.4 of a litre about four weeks ago just to keep it at the full point.

So apologies there is not too much to report on, its been a very busy period and I have spent a significant amount of time out of the country mapping which hasn't helped.

Obviously any input to the above welcome

But its that time now.

cheers

bob

MartynJ

Can't recommend the Perrin intercooler highly enough Bob, very nice to fit and in the Stealth Black is nice and discrete.

Martyn

Shaun

I would agree 100% on both counts. I tried having mine ported to the gasket and it made the spool worse.... not sure if it was isolated, but it didn't work for me and I went back to completely stock JDM headers again. Never let me down and I used them up to and beyond of 600bhp.

Looking forward to this. Test results I know about looks like this is ideal for a larger capacity engine.

Would it not be better to go for a set of 1000cc injectors and be done with it? I never had any problems on 1200cc injectors (can't remember the make but unfortunately you can't get them anymore - Litchfield sourced these). You wouldn't need the FPR then either.

Careful choice needed on this one as your engine with those heads and appropriate turbo will want to breathe for England!

No need for a larger MAF tube imo. I never used one and it caused no issues. I used a Hyperflow pipe, but found the Hyperflow filter to be restrictive beyond 500bhp. Tracktive shoehorned in the biggest K&N possible, in to the inner wing with appropriate air feeds. This resulted in boost going crazy so the original filter as part of that kit was certainly causing an issue.

The Hyperflow Monster kit works extremely well imo. When I was recording charge temps whilst on the RR, they stayed static at circa 18degs through the entire run..... it was a real eye opener. We had to check the sensor wasn't bust.... which it wasn't. lol

The straight(ish) line is the charge temps at the throttle body.

Bob Rawle

Martyn thanks for the Perrin suggestion, I will have look, I would want to stay with polished aluminium simply to minimise any heat retention from additional coatings but its an interesting alternative to consider.

Shaun thats a brilliant post and very helpful. I think you are right re injectors, recently maxed a set of 1000cc on a 2.35/GT35 running 25% meth at 607 bhp, they were ok for Sunoco 109 at 625 as the required injector duty is obviously less without all the meth in the fuel.

I have a set of new std headers in my sights and your experience certainly supports my thoughts on it. So thats a definite decision made.

Your charge temps are very impressive, especially measured when on a dyno, I would think on the road they would actually drop a bit from that. The Hyperflow system is very effective and I have always been impressed both with the performance and the fit.

I am confident I will need to modify the maf tube diameter in order to get the range needed to back to back its use compared to the SD system, in itself it's probably not a huge issue but to use the maf and maintain range will be a problem based on past experiences. One of the big advantages of SD is that there will not be a need to go blow through.

And, yes, I am also looking forward to how the LM billet performs.

In Portugal mapping so more at the weekend when back

cheers

bob

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

I've got a perrin front mount in black sat in my workshop at home, i think it came from a WR1 built at engine tuner, looks very nice

paulT25

Hi Bob,
I am one off the customers, whos engine was being worked on at th esame time as yours I belive?
Iain has now got the car running with ported Cossie heads, as well as a strong bottom end.
It is running the LM500 turbo , and is fitting fuel rails/ swirl pot/ as we speak.
He phoned me last night recomending that the Ecutek Ecu , is on the limit for the the engine set up.
So I hope he has contacted you , so he can see what you recomend. I could have had the car back and have the new Ecu fitted later, but I want to get all the work done in one visit.
Reading your spec, I thought that my set up would be able to get above 500H.P. Iain says it will make,? on V power. I will also use a meth mix , as Jenny chem is close to me.
I am using the hyperflow FMIC, and fits well, Iain also remarked that with a better ECu other limiting facters may show up, so we will have to see.?
Iain has also made a comment regarding the torque, he likes his road cars to have a lowish torque figure than someother tunners, around teh 470-480 region! due you agree with this , he said higher torque figures do not make for a nicer driving road car.

Anyway , I hope you have fun setting up the Ecu and mapping my T25, and would hope that over 500H.P could be possible.

Paul.

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

I would be interested on your thoughts regarding this too, as I believe your soon to map my car at API and "torque" is top on my list
cheers...

Shaun

I suspect Iain is referring to the driveability aspect. Remember that 500bhp and say 500ftlb is a lot for a road car, especially on a well set-up 2.5 which can have a brutal mid-range. Even on a Newage it is too much for road use. You don't want something for road use that is an animal..... assuming road use is it's prime remit.

When mine was at say 530/530, you really had to hold on and have your wits about you if you were giving it some on the road.

A good road car would give you smooth and progressive power imo.

It all depends on what sort of "drive" you are looking for and since Litchfields pride themselves in producing cars that have great road manners, I would suggest this is the focus.

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

Any updates??

paulT25

I had a dyno run last week, and my car is running 513 H.P. & 550 FTLBS torque.

thats with Vpower and 20% meth.
Torque is good , power less than I thought it would be with the meth.

Will see what th eBillet whell will do next or what upgrade could get the h.p over the 550 H,p mark with the spooling speed I have at present.

My last dyno was with Iains turbo upgrade for the early T25s and that made 489 H.P , SO thats 24 H,p gain with the outlay of the Lm500 turbo and 20% meth .

Bob Rawle

Well finally the car is about to get to complete the last lap, on November 7th it went over to Iain's for the fitment of the final stage which will see it completed for now. I still have oil cooler and fuel cooler on the list but both those upgrades require considered thought and discussion before going ahead.

The engine has been in since December 2010, I have actually covered 18,000 miles with the car since then, as its been my daily drive I was really struggling to find the time to release it plus certain components were “in development” and I decided that I would wait for those to materialize in final form.

But over the 18k miles the engine has used next to no oil, even once the fully synthetic was put in oil consumption has been minimal or nothing.

To save people “looking back” here is the spec as it stands before the 2nd stage was started.

Engine started as a new MY2010 short engine from Subaru, the block and crank were retained, everything else was set aside.

Block: - semi closed deck block modified to fully closed deck by inset plate.
Crank: - Subaru nitrided crank
Pistons: - Mahle low silicon
Main bearings: - ACL
Big end bearings: - Mahle
Rods: - Cosworth heavy duty
Head studs: - RCM 14,mm head stud/sleeve conversion

The key parts were cryogenically treated to stress relieve, toughen and stabilise.

Heads: - Cosworth full specification heads blue printed by Swindon Racing Engines in addition.
Cams: - Inlet 278, Exhaust 274
Vernier pulleys installed to the exhaust cams
Valves: - Inlet and exhaust Cosworth big valve specification
Springs: - Cosworth double valve springs
Retainers etc: - Cosworth Titanium set.

Head gasket: - Cosworth 1.1 mm thickness

Oil pump: - Cosworth 12mm

Cam belt: - Cosworth kevlar belt, new idle tensioner fitted

Compression ratio is between 8.8/8.9 to 1 on all four cylinders

Cylinder 1: - 8.83
Cylinder 2: - 8.84
Cylinder 3: - 8.89
Cylinder 4: - 8.88
The secondary air system has been removed.

The RCM "Track Attack" oil catch can is installed, the PCV has been removed and the inlet manifold blanked, the catch can drain is fed back into the sump.

The exhaust is the system that I designed in conjunction with Janspeed in 2003 which is the basis for the RCM "Team Ice" system, and is fully resonated

The clutch is an Exedy Hyper Twin.

Stage 2 …

Turbo … LM500 billet twin entry with “large” cover

Induction … BRD 80mm maf tube with K & N filter

Intake pipe to turbo … Litchfield Imports 76mm pipe.

Headers … OEM twin scroll

Up Pipe … OEM twin scroll

Down pipe … twin scroll version of the existing single scroll item

Cosworth tumble deletes, these are moulded and will also heat insulate the inlet manifold.

EcuTek 800cc injectors

RCM parallel fuel rails

Bosch Motorsport 044 fuel pump mated to Litchfield swirl pot under bonnet

Adjustable fuel pressure regulator

Hyperflow twin scroll baffled sump with increased oil capacity

Hyperflow Front mounted Intercooler

71 degree thermostat.

Uprated STi engine and gear box mounts

Three port boost control solenoid

Charge temp sensor in the intercooler pipework wired back to the OEM intake sensor wiring.

OEM ecu with Race Rom

The Hyperflow sump requires modification to accept the catch can drain.

The intercooler pipework requires modification to accept the charge temperature sensor.

So as stated the car was started on 7th November, currently things have stalled as the intercooler kit contained the wrong bumper bar for the car and so we await a replacement kit from Hyperflow.

Once the above is installed the plan is …

Remap on the road using V Power only, probably boost at 1.6/1.7 bar to sort out any initial settling in niggles and get a good set of maps for best drivability and pickup.

Do it again with 20% meth at the same boost level.

Take to SRR/RCM and finalise the WOT mapping.

Back onto the road to tweak boost levels and afr’s to match.

Assess and determine what issues there are if I wanted to just run on V Power, my compression is such that this might be a limiting factor.

Then just use the meth option anyway (lol), seriously though I want both available, then I can decide which is going to suit the cars future use which is “occasional” fun. I have a boring Golf GTD as a run around now. 170ps is “slow” in comparison !!

As a matter of interest, with std turbo and injectors its been running at just over 380 bhp just on V Power/Tesco Momentum, but making a very nice 450 ft lbs torque, that’s at 1.6 bar mid range and 1.2 ish bar red line.

Cheers

Bob

Bob Rawle

Updating this again to say that the replacement intercooler kit should be en route and so patience is once again a virtue where my car is concerned. Fingers crossed its a nice Xmas present to myself !!

cheers

bob

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

sounds good bob. Looking forward to seeing the next set of results

Bob Rawle

Hi Iain, so am I, bit like watching paint dry at the moment, I know that Iain and the guys are just as frustrated, but it seems its a normal situation and so far its all come good at every stage, I can't wait for this step to be completed.

cheers

bob

beliblisk

iTrader: (16)

380/450 damn that must be really great settup for daily driver,responsive as hell.

Good luck with future plans

Bob Rawle

Hi, yes it was very very nice, just needed to be "more" but given the spec it was very fast with almost instant response. Turbo would have spooled to max boost before 2200 rpm if I had let it. far too much too early at that though

cheers

bob