alloy

It's a punchy repair bill to say the least, but the car is still new here in Europe, and with 50% of the European GTRs being UK based we will find solutions and economies of scale that will vastly reduce the costs of maintanece and repair bills. Every other new high end car would suffer these traits in it's inital 12month honey moon period and with the GTR it is a car to be embraced by the aftermarket, so chin up people and don't let the fear distract from your fun, prices will come down both in the aftermarket and at dealers as 2010 unfolds!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Interesting discussion on the GTR forum about disabling the bonnet rams reduce (the apparently horrific) repair costs from light front end shunts.

Imagine if you knowingly disabled a safety system and then hit a pedestrian who died of a serious head injury due to smacking the top of the engine.

Be an interesting civil, if not criminal liability case. Bad enough in the UK, frightening in the US.

hodgy0_2

but from reading the thread the US do not seem to have the same pedestrian protection system

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

It looked to me as though the problem wasn't so much the cost of the parts that need to be replaced, but the enormous gap between the quoted cost of the parts and the alleged £11k final bill. I'd also love to know exactly why an ECU would need replacing rather than just resetting, it's almost as though the car has been deliberately designed from the outset to be difficult and expensive to maintain...

Matteeboy

Different league altogether but when my mk4 R32 got done over (failed attempt to nick the wheels two nights running) they ripped off the cover sill (bit below the door) and dented the front wing just by the front wheel - this snapped a small clip so the car needed a new front spoiler/apron flown in from Germany (they were quite rare at the time).

It was on insurance but that cover sill and small dent (about three inches across) cost around £3k to repair.

Ouch.

Markus

That's a point I made on a similar thread on another forum. If you're disabling a safety system and then injure/kill a person, you could be in for serious litigation, plus I would expect your warranty to be voided as well.

As mentioned by others, it's not an issue in North America as the system isn't installed on NA cars, which does surprise me somewhat as I'd have thought the US to be one place where you'd be required to have this sort of things. Probably cannot mandate it as it would cost too much for the big three to implement this, and seeing as they've gone cap in hand begging to the government for bailout money (well, in the case of GM), they'd go back for more as they would need it to fit the new system.

I would like to know what the cost of the same parts would be on other sports cars that have them fitted. Actually, David, does your porker happen to have such a system on it?

Markus

When ECU is mentioned I think they are referring to an ECU for the safety system, rather than the main ECU, or at least I really hope that is what they refer to. Regardless, I'd expect the activation of the safety system to be at least recorded in the main ECU somewhere.

Mitchy260

They can be financed for around £800pm on a PCP so not overly expensive given its performance capabilities.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Markus - my GT3 is still from the stone ages and has no electronic aids at all other than running the engine and air con!!

Jer

A set of bonnet pins and a remap would sort that out.

Dingdongler

It doesn't matter how good this car is, it seems the hassle of ownership (repair/servicing bills, image etc) are just not worth it. Owners will come back with some sort of acceleration figure/track time to justify how good it is, but that's meaningless really.

It seems like Japan is using GTR owners to help fix its budget deficit!

Seriously though, I wonder if there is some kind of European law GTR owners can use, some sort of fair price practice? A consumer shouldn't expect a bill of £11k after a minor shunt in a£55k car,

Dedrater

I asked a guy in work about this today (MoD civilian lawyer) and he was quite certain that if the car has an MOT certificate then no claim could be made in the UK in regards to taking these rams out.

The driver would be guiltless and any claims made wouldn't be on the owner of the vehicle but rather VOSA or some other government agency.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

I was told at a early age to deny everything Let them prove it ...

TX.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I suspect your friend is incorrect. At a very minimum an MOT does not guarantee roadworthiness. It only guarantees that it meets the minimum generic safety criteria applicable at the time of taking the test.

What you say is a bit like getting your car MOTed and then nine month later running around with completely bald tyres and then getting into an accident. Having an MOT is going to protect you there.

Or perhaps you somehow have limited brake function say use very small brakes for a drag car and then get into an accident. An MOT would not protect in these circumstances.

The MOT also does not cover the operation of car safety systems.

So all in all I think your friend may well be incorrect.

alloy

This is a crazy comment, if it wasn't worth the hassle of ownership then they wouldn't sell it's that simple! It's no wonder why in the UK there are 900 of the 1800 odd European sales because we love performance metal and this beats all hands down bang for buck! It may not be worth the hassle for you and thats because either you're not bold over by the car or its un-economical for you to run. These things are pretty transparent and therefore as an owner you know what you are getting yourself in to from the beginning! I've said it before, i'll say it again, you pay to play! Now a car that's 55k and has the performance and power of the GTR is bound to go through tyres, brakes and other consumerables, and the 20" performance runflat tyres ARE going to be expensive because they are bespoke, the monster brakes are going to be more expensive than your subaru 4pots because there is more to them....these facts are expected! True the 11k bill for a slow bump is insane, but this is something that will get resolved after a full disclosure and breakdown has been established and if it doesn't some people will sell out, but again they will fall into the same category as you in as such as they don't have the passion for the car or its is beyond their means.

marky1

Have to be honest with reference to all this pay to play stuff. An 11k bill for a small bump would really put me off a car and this is coming from someone that has had a 430 Scuderia. The parts costs on the GTR worry me more than a Ferrari. For example if I had a small bump in the Scud, off to the local repair centre and for about 400 euros I could have the front bumper patched and re-painted. £11k for a small bump is just complete and utter robbery and would put most people with an ounce of common sense off buying it, and this is coming from someone that is really trying to find a reason to buy one!

alloy

You buy cheap you pay in the long run. Inital cost 55k, 10k for 3year running cost you still have a car that nothing else would touch for 65k. Buy 911T 110k and 3-4k for 3 year running cost you still have far more value and bang for buck in the GTR, plus the scope to mod will be more diverse and also economical, e.g. Y-pipe£400 COBB£750=GTR with 560bhp!

The coverage of the thread reffered to will mean this is high on Nissan's radar and an issue that could be detrimental to future sales. I would suggest this issue will be resolved in a swift manner!

Dingdongler

I don't think its a crazy comment at all. You say the costs are transparent but that's far from the truth isn't it. That owner had NO idea that a minor shunt would end up costing £11k did he? How many owners investigate the exact cost of everything before they buy a car? Not all. You buy an expensive car, you expect big bills, but not MEGA bills.

You say anybody who sells out of the car either doesn't have enough 'passion' or the 'means', I would disagree. Plenty of people would have the passion and the means, but would feel as though they are having the p1ss taken out of them with an £11k bill for a minor shunt, £12k for a gearbox etc. At some po

hodgy0_2

the GT-R seems like the automobile equivalent of crack cocaine

what would scooby do

That's one tarnished product now - I would accept the running costs of the 33 and 34 series but it is now a joke product.

It's like buying an ex-council house and finding it take £3k a month just to heat it.

alloy

Agree to disagree

Each to their own, but the hype of the car means that all the bad bits will get press coverage and the good bits are just what is expected so fall foul of the media after the inital hype from the previous 12months!

If you've not drove it then IMO you're not going to have an appreciation for what the car offers and how it negates the bad press coverage the car attracts for all the wrong reasons as the right reasons to own the car far in excess of these bad press points. Yes i've had a gearbox issue and Nissan sorted it with a new unit, yes if i have a bump then my premium will go up and yes the consumerables are expensive in comparison to the car's peers however the car is 50% cheaper inital outlay than most of it's peers and this is enough compensation to negate the issues some people may use to justify not owning the car

alloy

On a side note, despite my initial problems with Nissan Customer Service, Nissan seem to be tractable with resolving issues such as VDC off and the Warranty implications, also the 110degree Trans Temp being raised to 120deg, they are efficient in rectifying mechanical problems with any cars that may have them and i do not see them being any different in resolving or working to reduce the costs of repairs etc. since it is receiving such coverage on an international stage!

marky1

Alloy when you say the car is 50% cheaper than alternatives etc, you are kind of forgetting to factor residuals into the equation. Yes the outlay on a 997 Turbo may be much higher but to be honest after three years it's probably still worth 70k. Stick a couple of bumps into the equation in a GTR and after three years you might find that car that cost you 50% less than alternatives has ended up costing you more!
Anyway, not knocking the GTR, it's a great car but 11k is just absolutely knucking futs, and that will put a lot of people, even those with a lot of money off the car because they see it as OTT.

what would scooby do

I may order a few new GTR's and break them for spares

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

they seem cheap enough on the trader.
57 plate for £41,995 looks very tempting and this news and current scare stories will not bolster sales or add value

By the time they are out of warrenty it wont matter a jot if you dont have them officially serviced etc and as is always the case for Japanese (perceived) performance cars, the after market tuning section will allow options for any owners, be that tuning or repairs.

alloy

I agree to a degree but then on the other hand, roughly 911T 110k list price 40k depreciation over 3years £70k resale value. GTR £55k purchase price if it's worth £15k in 3 years i can live with that, i may suggest its value will be closer to 25-30k though so loss of approx £25k in depreciation which is worse on a percentage basis but less of a finnancial hit. With costs of running etc i still feel the costs of owning the GTR are inline with other turbo performance cars of a similar ilk when you factor in the discount the car offers on value for money inclusive of inital cost of purchase, then there are the smiles per miles you get

Yes 11k repair bills are beyond unreasonable but as i said above i have confidence Nissan will address this issue in the coming weeks, if they dont well i already pay through my nose on insurance due to age/occupation/points/location hahaaha so a few more pennies is just life

I have no regrets about my purchase as i'm sure 98% of owners would agree because for what the car is, nothing will come close. As Clarkson said it's a new benchmark and as such everyone will try and sink their claws into it and bring it down, that's what we do here in the UK build something up so we can bring it back down again

Trout

iTrader: (1)

According to at least one source if the GTR was actually sold at a normal profit rather than a loss they would cost around £120k new!!!

It's nice of Nissan to subsidise a few petrol heads around the world. I am not sure all the Micra buyers would he so impressed that they were paying a GTR tax

marky1

To be fair, that's really all that matters so enjoy it!

alloy

Dedrater

Obviously, an MOT certificate only confirms the vehicle, at the time of its test, met the minimum road safety standards required by UK law.

I think his point is, what if you remove the rams, take it for an MOT which it will then most certainly pass. You then 10 minutes later go and kill someone by pure accident, resulting in a head injury etc

As long as insurance etc is in order, then no claim against the driver can be made, it is just not feasible in the courts of this land.

For instance, what if I bought a second hand GTR with them removed?
What about boy racers using after market over sized front bumpers, which have not been type tested?

The list is endless.