Matteeboy

It's an old troll and I think I know who it is...

Let's just think about this briefly - first lovely sunny day in months and "Monty" is spending time frothing like a wailing toddler at someone he doesn't even know on the internet.

I think that speaks for itself rather well.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Well with all the name changing and so on.......

Mad Monty

So come on then matteeboy, who am I and what do you know about me?

I certainly know a lot about you:

Your name.
Where you live.
What car you drive.
Your current business & your failed business.
Account details of these businesses.
etc
etc

Monty.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

This is getting interesting.......go on then!

Dream Weaver

3 series touring is OK as an ugly duckling family car, in fact we will be buying a 320/330/335 ourselves soon as the family hack, but my ST is the fun car for the weekend and for that I demand good looks and petrol.

Perf diesels are ok, but not my cup of tea for all out fun. If I only had one car, then it would be an RS4 Avant and in no way a diesel Beemer.

Matteeboy

Yawn.

Stroll on dweeb.

Dream - so you might get a 320 or you might get a 335? Methinks you are talking utter bollox. Nice try though. It really made me feel ever so small.

rabbos

R26R matches FRS in a straight line upto 120.

Dream Weaver

No bollox at all, the mrs wants a 3 series touring so we will be buying one soon as the Civic is coming up for three years old and end of warranty.

Just not sure which to go for. The accountant in me says the 320 as it's mainly for her to get to work and she has no interest in performance, but my driving enthusiast side wants the quicker one for when I'm driving, either 330 or 335, don't know which as I haven't researched them yet so not sure about model years.

It will be an 08 or 58 plate hopefully.

will_wrx

If it makes any difference, I was looking into buying an 08 plate BMW 3 series.

Test drove all 3, 320, 330 and 335.

I'm very enthusiastic when it comes to driving, but I honestly would have gone for the 320 if I had opted for any as there wasnt enough difference for me to justify paying more.



Also what is up with some people on this forum, they need to relax, lol.

paulwrxboro

i wasent disapointed in my 320, try it you might like it

Dream Weaver

We had a 320 CD Coupe M sport before the Civic and sold it due to needing 5 doors and apart from reliability issues we loved it, so I'd be quite happy with the 320 but will try the 330 and 335 first.

Back on topic, went to look at an RS today but they sold it on Thursday.

will_wrx

I'm very tempted to go an test drive one now, people keep saying how great it is, so I'm now interested to find out.

I am not keen on the ST I have to be honest. But I know there have been a lot of changes made to the RS, the LSD sounds very interesting, have been having a good read on the internet.

So I'm starting to like them after reading about them..

Lol

Matteeboy

Dream - there is a HUGE difference between the 320 and 335 (i or d)! Completely different league in performance.

Does anyone else think people are getting a little carried away with the Focus thing?
I tested one - yes it handles well, yes it sounds good but it's still very much a Ford inside, it's very nose heavy, it weighs a HUGE amount (ST and RS) for a FWD hatch, it looks are not my cup of tea (especially with awful stickers everywhere) and for it's performance, it is utterly DIRE on fuel economy.

Sure they are decent enough but it does get a little tiresome when ridiculous claims are made about them. I'm also seeing more and more (and I see a LOT now) being driven very badly/aggressively. Not good.

It reminds me of when Scooby owners got carried away - except Scoobies are 4WD and more capable.

Give me an Evo any day. Or a 130i, or an R32 Golf, or an S3, etc.

Dream Weaver

It's not hard to see why people are getting carried away with the RS, they are excellent fun for not much money.

You mention you would rather have an EVO, R32, S3 etc and although the fuel consumption on the RS isn't the best (although 23-25mpg is OK in my book for a quick car), the Focus running costs are so much less, I'd like to see an S3 service costing £150!!

Matteeboy

Dream - I was talking more about the ST. The RS is quick but it still weighs around 1500kgs and is FWD. And a decent specced one is just about £30k - that gets you a lot of S3, R32, etc and even touches decent engined Evo or 135i territory.

But it's the ST that's getting overdone - anyone would think they were the fastest, best handling cars on the road... You can't get away from the fact that they have an oldish heavy volvo engine up front, are a little flimsy inside, return less than 25mpg (so very inefficient) and are front wheel drive so steering and powering the same wheels.

Dream Weaver

The ST does handle very well, the engine is a good one regardless of age (Cosworth YB is still a good engine), interior has been fine nothing has fallen off it or is flimsy, MPG doesn't bother me even if it did 10mpg, and FWD is fine if you can drive properly.

Horses for courses, looking at your German options you obviously prefer some sort of "badge" to show people how successful you are, I prefer something that looks great, goes well and sounds the part for reasonable money.

Matteeboy

Dream - you obviously haven't read other posts of mine. The reason I didn't get a Beemer years ago is BECAUSE of the badge - I hate the image. Our last car was a Vauxhall and our other current car is a Suzuki. In fact I hate badge snobbery so much that I go out of my way to avoid it. I couldn't give two tosses about it being a Beemer - if it was a Skoda that did the same job, I'd have it.

FWD is okay if you can drive properly? That's what all but one of my cars have been and I'm sick of it - simple physics dictate that driving the same wheels that steer mean torque steer and understeer. Any properly pokey FWD cars out there (bar Touring cars that only drive on a track)? FWD is the easy option and a cop out for Ford on the RS. More accessible, less scary to bad drivers - that's why they resisted 4WD which the Escort Cossie, a true Ford classic had.


The Focus looks average (bloated and heavy - but that's subjective) which some nasty chav additions but yes it does go well and sound good.

But carry on thinking a nose heavy FWD hatch is more "fun" to drive than a perfectly balanced RWD "sports tourer" (I hate that term). If "fun" and FWD hatches are so important, then why don't you have a Megane R26 or a Clio 197? The RS4 was an option but it's still nose heavy (Audi just can't do balance) and needs fuel stops every 200 miles - if you drive it like a gay. It would also cost about twice as much to run as the Beemer.

Dream Weaver

I had a "perfectly balanced" 320 Coupe and I still prefer the handling on the Focus, I just can't get along with RWD personally as a performance car. I don't have a R26 or a Clio because they are Renaults which I hate with a passion after owning a Clio for some time, which was almost as unreliable as the Beemer was.

I wanted handling, reliability, performance and looks and the Renaults score poorly on that front for me. I also bought the ST on a whim, so didn't try any others out as I liked the ST from the deay they were released even though I was never a Ford man before then.

BTW, the new Focus RS kills the original Escort Cossie in every stat, including 0-60.

Matteeboy

So then, you like your car which I quite like too, I like my car which you aren't keen on (was your 320 an E46 or E92?) - so that's sorted.

I can't see many good drivers claiming they prefer FWD over RWD but then that's your own opinion.

I'll think of you when an ST tries tailgating me yet again and a nice gap opens in the traffic...

markymark34

I think your getting a bit carried away there. I really wanted an ST so much so i ended up driving 5 of them but everytime i got out i knew in my heart that although it was a bit of fun it was no quicker than my 330d in a straight line and the RWD of the bm killed the ST round the bends. Dont get me wrong i love the ST and i think the RS is a cracking car. I was even defending FWD on here with you a few months back but im afraid i was wrong. Drove ST, VXR, MPS and GTI and not 1 of them could persuade me to go back to FWD.

Matteeboy

Mark -

Dream Weaver

It's all down to personal preference, I've just never enjoyed the tail out sensation of RWD, and I was brought up in the FWD era so I've had a lot more experience of FWD and prefer the way it works, but maybe thats because my major RWD ownership was 94 MR2 which were well known for their tail happy nature.

For the type of driving I do, FWD suits me just fine, and you must bear in mind I'm talking about my modded ST when I mention the Focus, not a dog slow std one - I'm the first to tell everyone that as std the ST is a slow lumbering car and I was hugely disappointed with mine when I bought it, but with some choice mods it's a different car.

Matt, I don't dislike your car, or I wouldn't be buying one soon, but just as an ST isn't the be all and end all, a BMW estate isn't either regardless of what you may think. If I was the type to get involved in races I would happily meet up with you and take in a 100 mile round trip on a nice B road and I will bet my house on the fact that we would be together at the start and the end of the route.

Our 320 was a 2 year old E46, looked fantastic but ate both the turbo and engine and had plenty of other niggles, not so good on a £31k car - I just hope when we get the new one it doesn't go the same way.

BOB.T

I want to see how people drive to make an ST understeer, I really do! I've had mine for two years, drive like a **** and it just is not an issue, really, honestly and truthfully!

For the record, I've been in the motor trade for 16 years, I drive about 50k miles per year, know about FWD / RWD principles and I'm not starting a flame war, but!!!

Matteeboy

Dream - the E46 model, especially the 320d, did have a few problems with quality - and the E90 320d has also had issues - none in the 335d so far (as long as you watch the red intercooler pipe - oil on it means trouble but is very rare). The main problem with the 320d (and very rarely the 330d) has been with swirl flaps; which can be blanked off.

The E46 320d was also well down on power compared to the E90 version. I tested an E46 330i and was a little disappointed so got the mk4 R32 Golf instead. So comparing the E46 to the E90 isn't quite a fair comparison.

Of course my Beemer isn't the be all and end all - no car is. But chuffed to bits with it. Of course you've tuned yours - I can easily tune mine too... 340bhp and well over 500lbs/ft for about £800. Guys are getting easy sub 5 secs to 60 times and silly 0-100 times in DMS chipped 335ds. But I doubt I will.

Bob - I got the Focus ST I tested to understeer quite impressively. It also torque steered noticeably - but then I utterly thrashed the pants off it. I actually preferred the handling of the old ST170 - lighter on it's "feet" - shame the engine was cr4p.

Now FWD owners - tell me how you get the back end out, hold it in a nice slide on opposite lock, tidily recover and carry on? One of the true joys of any sorted RWD (or sorted 4WD) car and a feeling that can't be underestimated - unless you get it wrong and oversteer into a wall of course...

Dream Weaver

The problem is that people comment on vehicles that they have only "test driven" and not owned.

I've owned RWD vehicles, and I've owned highly modified FWD vehicles so I am well placed to comment, unlike the majority of the people that come out with the same old crap on SN.

In this specific thread I own a modded ST and had a nice M-Sport suspensioned diesel Beemer as well and I know for a fact that the ST would own the Beemer on the roads round here.

I've also never had either understeer or torque steer in the ST and I do drive it quickly when I'm on my own.

I wouldn't as that would be the most ridiculous way to drive on a public road, and reserved purely for bellends of the highest order.

Matteeboy

Dream - please point out the bit that says "on public roads."

I suggest you drive your car quickly but without real knowledge and skill. Like 98% of people with a quick motor. Have you had any additional training? I'm guessing not.

People test drive cars to see how they handle (or in 99% of cases, to see how much they can fit in the boot/park it/how many cupholders it has, etc) - how else can they find out? Should we all own every car we judge? Are car journos tests all void because they only test drive cars? I drove the ST wanting to like it and maybe buy one - I didn't.

The best handling cars I've driven have been the Elise 111R, the last shape MR2 (underpowered but stunningly nimble) and the Evo FQ360 (albeit "artificially" good) and the F355. The best handling FWD car has been a close call between a Puma and an ST170 - but they are still way waaaaay behind the AWD and RWD examples I've given.

I have no problem with the ST but if you truly think it's the last word in handling and quick A to B motoring, I suggest you get yourself in a very sorted AWD or RWD car, get some training and see how you feel. Brief ownership of an E46 320d "Friday car" isn't exactly what I call proper experience of RWD.

Dream Weaver

You are priceless Matt.

andythejock01wrx

Is that the thread over? I was rather enjoying it!

BOB.T

Push an ST far enough and you can make it understeer, yes...ie be a bellend in it. Likewise, hoof your beemer enough and it will spin and kill you, agree? In all the aggressive ST driving I've done, understeer has not been an issue, at all! Let's not forget RWD and AWD cars can understeer too!

Power sliding, a lame discussion point as by your own admission, it's not a skill for the road. If we're talking track time, lift off oversteer can be fun too. As rewarding? Maybe not but I've no interest in track days and I very much doubt your BM will see a track either.

As for journos, Schumacher could give me an opinion on a car, I couldn't give a foof, that's his, albeit very experienced, opinion of it...I don't care what he thinks of my car, he won't be driving it!

Mattee, how do you rate the Fiesta Zetec S, let's say late 90s earlier 00 era?

Again, I'm not starting a war, I'm not even sticking up for the ST, as I say, I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of any car! I do get foofed off with people spouting crap off though!

Matteeboy

That Fiesta was a damn tidy handler (same floorplan as the Puma) that needed a bit more power...

Who is spouting crap? I haven't made up anything I have written.