335i or GTR
02 June 2009, 11:10 AM
#31
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Sorry Matt, done.
I think the remaining shortlist is:
996 X50 Turbo manual
997 Turbo tip
RS6 5.0T
I do not want to compromise on AWD, turbos and sensational thrust
The three remaining cars to test are not in the right place at the right time, trying to arrange. It can be difficult when you want to test to see if it is the right car, but if you liked it the particular example isn't quite the right one - say you prefer one in Northern Ireland for example
I think the remaining shortlist is:
996 X50 Turbo manual
997 Turbo tip
RS6 5.0T
I do not want to compromise on AWD, turbos and sensational thrust
The three remaining cars to test are not in the right place at the right time, trying to arrange. It can be difficult when you want to test to see if it is the right car, but if you liked it the particular example isn't quite the right one - say you prefer one in Northern Ireland for example
Suspect the Porsches would win as a weekend car, but when you've got to pretent to look vaguely sensible everyday, don't want to attract attention and travel in comfort, RS6 is a beguiling mix.
Saw Rowan Atkinson driving one in a recent documentary (his car). Thought he'd gone soft, but he hasn't. Very Black Adder, less Flasheart.
02 June 2009, 11:48 AM
#32
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I loved the RS6 4.2 I tried. Much better than the reviews suggested, although he's had the DRC fixed under warranty nine times.
I'd prefer something a little lighter and 3/A4/C class sized, and ideally saloon or coupe, but the drivetrain is more important.
Having said that, fitting all my equipment (3 big bags with the necessity to pick up 2 more in an emergency) into my wife's Golf is not as easy as it was into a saloon boot on the Evo or Subaru. They may just fit in a 911 but would go easier in the back of an estate
I'd prefer something a little lighter and 3/A4/C class sized, and ideally saloon or coupe, but the drivetrain is more important.
Having said that, fitting all my equipment (3 big bags with the necessity to pick up 2 more in an emergency) into my wife's Golf is not as easy as it was into a saloon boot on the Evo or Subaru. They may just fit in a 911 but would go easier in the back of an estate
02 June 2009, 11:48 AM
#33
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Interesting reading John.
Always like hearing "real" stories about cars. Mags just rag them, get a track time, waffle on about under/oversteer but don't actually look at cars in the "real" world - hence rating the Clio Sport as amazing despite the fact they are HIDEOUSLY unreliable and overlooking certain cars that just do the job well day in day out.
02 June 2009, 11:52 AM
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Hey Mattee - you sound like you should read What Car. They don't rag them, they tell how sensible they are, how reliable and how many bags and kids they can fit it.
John - do you really need 4WD - get a Merc C63 AMG - you can get them at a reasonable price.
John - do you really need 4WD - get a Merc C63 AMG - you can get them at a reasonable price.
02 June 2009, 11:57 AM
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Spooky - if John's considering a 335i then 4WD clearly isn't essential!
An example of the "living with" thing is something like your car over something like a 355/360. The Fezza may be showier and more flash but **** me they are a pain in the **** to live with. Build quality of a 99p chinese made toy, a nightmare to service, too wide for most roads, etc, etc. A 911 just does the job reliably day in day out and is probably faster anyway. Yet the Ferraris win loads of awards (except in Evo) because the owners don't actually live with them.
An example of the "living with" thing is something like your car over something like a 355/360. The Fezza may be showier and more flash but **** me they are a pain in the **** to live with. Build quality of a 99p chinese made toy, a nightmare to service, too wide for most roads, etc, etc. A 911 just does the job reliably day in day out and is probably faster anyway. Yet the Ferraris win loads of awards (except in Evo) because the owners don't actually live with them.
02 June 2009, 12:07 PM
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02 June 2009, 01:44 PM
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Not the D-word Hank. Wash your mouth out - with derv
Shame there doesn't seem to be much of a market for something like an A3 with the RS6 motor. Makes perfect sense to me But RS6 Avant should carry your bags John. Amazingly versatile - would make a decent ambulance too. And a hearse.
I love 'real' car threads too. So different to Virtual Tyre Kicking.
Shame there doesn't seem to be much of a market for something like an A3 with the RS6 motor. Makes perfect sense to me
But RS6 Avant should carry your bags John. Amazingly versatile - would make a decent ambulance too. And a hearse.I love 'real' car threads too. So different to Virtual Tyre Kicking.
02 June 2009, 01:54 PM
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Going to look at a blue RS6 tonight, just the rear/side windows are tinted like a lot seem to be and I don't think it is a film, and I'm not so keen on this look in photos, may be better in the flesh. Anyway, won't be driving but the owner will take us down some lovely back roads. Wife may take some convincing as she doesn't "get" the RS Avant thing But it is not her car, and she would I'm sure prefer to passenger in it than a GTR!
Yes I do really want AWD, I hate scrabbling around for traction in the rain and getting stuck in the snow. I live and work in a fairly rural area.
I would value a massive power band and traction over steering feel and adjustability, as long as it actually goes around corners properly.
The 335i was wonderful, even as standard and on 19s, on our test in the dry, a superb deal as well for its range of abilities, but the RWD really does mean I'm not considering it further after my M3 experience on these roads in winter. I would buy a 335xi without question.
But it is not her car, and she would I'm sure prefer to passenger in it than a GTR!Yes I do really want AWD, I hate scrabbling around for traction in the rain and getting stuck in the snow. I live and work in a fairly rural area.
I would value a massive power band and traction over steering feel and adjustability, as long as it actually goes around corners properly.
The 335i was wonderful, even as standard and on 19s, on our test in the dry, a superb deal as well for its range of abilities, but the RWD really does mean I'm not considering it further after my M3 experience on these roads in winter. I would buy a 335xi without question.
02 June 2009, 05:42 PM
#41
It's probably many threads back but...
Have you considered an Evo X? I noticed JR motorsport guy has pushed 480bhp through the stock engine and hoping to make 500 with a 'better' actuator. Mind you they are a bit in your face if you're looking at BMW's.
I had a look round a new Impreza STI in the dealers the other day and I really like them up close (apart from the nasty rear lights)
But, going by the list of cars you're considering you're more grown up than me!
I think if I had the funds in place to buy a 911 Turbo then I would do in a heartbeat, I really can't see buying a 335i over something special like a 911 turbo is going to leave you satisfied! The 335 really shouldn't come into it as it's RWD isn't it.
911, live the dream You're a long time dead, one shot at life, you'll be too old soon, could get hit by a train tomorrow, blah, blah etc etc
but...Have you considered an Evo X? I noticed JR motorsport guy has pushed 480bhp through the stock engine and hoping to make 500 with a 'better' actuator. Mind you they are a bit in your face if you're looking at BMW's.
I had a look round a new Impreza STI in the dealers the other day and I really like them up close (apart from the nasty rear lights)
But, going by the list of cars you're considering you're more grown up than me!
I think if I had the funds in place to buy a 911 Turbo then I would do in a heartbeat, I really can't see buying a 335i over something special like a 911 turbo is going to leave you satisfied! The 335 really shouldn't come into it as it's RWD isn't it.
911, live the dream
You're a long time dead, one shot at life, you'll be too old soon, could get hit by a train tomorrow, blah, blah etc etc
02 June 2009, 07:17 PM
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I think John's "done" the Evo thing already. I'm still very impressed with them after the FQ360 I tested.
I've found the perfect car John - BMW X6-M... Tee hee...
I've found the perfect car John - BMW X6-M... Tee hee...
02 June 2009, 08:05 PM
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John,,
The problem with deciding between a 997 and 996 4Wd's is that you won't get a feel for just how different they are and work unless its a real slick surface-- like wet! Before you put down all that $$$ drive them on a soggy day-- my thought here is that you'll see that the older system works better.
Last, if you really want the best 4WD system- besides maybe the GT-R, its the new 09' Audi S4 with torsen and torque vectoring- each rear wheel gets its own power. This car can under and oversteer at will. Better in some ways than the RS4.
BTW This is the best thread on all of scoobynet! JL
The problem with deciding between a 997 and 996 4Wd's is that you won't get a feel for just how different they are and work unless its a real slick surface-- like wet! Before you put down all that $$$ drive them on a soggy day-- my thought here is that you'll see that the older system works better.
Last, if you really want the best 4WD system- besides maybe the GT-R, its the new 09' Audi S4 with torsen and torque vectoring- each rear wheel gets its own power. This car can under and oversteer at will. Better in some ways than the RS4.
BTW This is the best thread on all of scoobynet! JL
02 June 2009, 10:04 PM
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RS6 - very impressed. Lovely and refined, beautiful interior/detailing, lots of toys, looks fine in Avant even with the pimp tints, rides well on 20s. Acceleration is effortless, kick down is hilarious, body control excellent. A properly refined car unlike the GTR, even the Mrs likes it.
Will try to get a quick test of E60 M5 tomorrow, I was honest with the dealer and said I didn't want to buy the example they are selling, but he still said he'd be happy for me to have a drive on a quiet day during the week. People rave about them, and I want to be sure I'm not missing out.
996 X50, have to decide asap whether want to do an 8 hour drive tomorrow to try...
997 Turbo on Friday evening...
Will try to get a quick test of E60 M5 tomorrow, I was honest with the dealer and said I didn't want to buy the example they are selling, but he still said he'd be happy for me to have a drive on a quiet day during the week. People rave about them, and I want to be sure I'm not missing out.
996 X50, have to decide asap whether want to do an 8 hour drive tomorrow to try...
997 Turbo on Friday evening...
02 June 2009, 10:59 PM
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You may as well try the X50 - what have you got to lose?
I suspect you'll prefer the 997 TT over the 996 judging by what you're wanting from a car.
I've been driven in a 997TT and to be honest it was very smooth and clinical - more so than the 996 (and the 997 has 30bhp more than an X50).
I suspect you'll prefer the 997 TT over the 996 judging by what you're wanting from a car.
I've been driven in a 997TT and to be honest it was very smooth and clinical - more so than the 996 (and the 997 has 30bhp more than an X50).
02 June 2009, 11:38 PM
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John, I see you're still on-line. Go drive that 996. And the M5. It's the only way, and it sounds like a great day out whatever.
Glad you like the RS6. It may be all wrong in so many ways, but there's nothing that an excess of horsepower can't put right
Glad you like the RS6. It may be all wrong in so many ways, but there's nothing that an excess of horsepower can't put right
03 June 2009, 10:10 AM
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RS6 and 911 both have the engines in the "wrong place", but it doesn't matter at all!
We're leaving the 996 for now, trying to get the other possibilities tested first before ending on Friday with the 997 and a decision.
The sale of my Evo was rather unexpected and whilst I often thought and talked as we car nuts do about other possibilities, it is quite difficult to choose. Forgive if I'm boring anyone, but your ideas have been useful. I've only actually been shopping for 6 days but it feels longer. If I had one of these shoe buying compulsions some women have, it would truly be an affliction, because it would never end
Presently in my mind I'm 50-50 between the RS6 and the 997.
We're leaving the 996 for now, trying to get the other possibilities tested first before ending on Friday with the 997 and a decision.
The sale of my Evo was rather unexpected and whilst I often thought and talked as we car nuts do about other possibilities, it is quite difficult to choose. Forgive if I'm boring anyone, but your ideas have been useful. I've only actually been shopping for 6 days but it feels longer. If I had one of these shoe buying compulsions some women have, it would truly be an affliction, because it would never end
Presently in my mind I'm 50-50 between the RS6 and the 997.
03 June 2009, 10:19 AM
#49
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You mentioned bags earlier John....would the Porsche deal with that ok?
Personnally i can't see by the Audi. Would always love a TT, but imo there are so many more functions the Audi does.
Personnally i can't see by the Audi. Would always love a TT, but imo there are so many more functions the Audi does.
03 June 2009, 11:09 AM
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LOL I thought that was Internet Tyre Kicking you TM'd, but I'm happy to be defer. I love this banter - do you remember that guy who was all luvved up over a new Scirocco? Sex on wheels apparently. On the brink he was (of madness) but I think we saved him
John, you're certainly not boring anyone. We don't often get to evesdrop on the spending of real money, especially big lumps of it on something thoroughly petrolheaded and 100% politically unacceptable. You should run for parliament.
John, you're certainly not boring anyone. We don't often get to evesdrop on the spending of real money, especially big lumps of it on something thoroughly petrolheaded and 100% politically unacceptable. You should run for parliament.
03 June 2009, 04:51 PM
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I'll change my luggage if I have to I think I could get the stuff I rarely use but have to have in the front of a 911, and a soft bag for the day to day stuff in the passenger footwell or behind the seats. There is no roll cage to hang a stethoscope over on the Turbo though
Today's tests...
RS4 B7: looks good inside and out, nice V8 noise, loved the chassis, good brakes, excellent body control on B-roads, decent ride comfort and refinement. Manual gearchange is nice, clutch is fine. Steering felt numb, but accurate. Torque was impressive off idle, but never built to anything interesting until 6500 RPM from which point it felt genuinely quick. For me, fails in the thrust department.
E60 M5: nice engine noise, I like SMG, not difficult to be smooth with it, as E46 M3 SMG II a bit slow to change gear at low revs, overall I prefer a torque converter. I like the HUD, the toys, ride comfort superb in comfort mode, best of anything tried so far. I gave the car as good a workout as I could depending on traffic and visibility, after a while like the M3 the steering started to vibrate slightly under braking. Traction was superb in the dry smoothish stuff, excellent roll control for a big heavy car, and reasonable turn in, but the rack felt a bit slow. Acceleration was impressive (not quite epic, but not far off) at high RPM, but like the RS4 it really needed the right gear. It did fall apart on any suspension setting on a bumpy B-road - it simply ran out of suspension travel and the wheels left the ground and the traction control was intervening. On similar roads (albeit at slightly lower speed as it didn't accelerate as fast, the M5 could dial up some impressive numbers), the RS4 had considerably better vertical body control.
I think I could get the stuff I rarely use but have to have in the front of a 911, and a soft bag for the day to day stuff in the passenger footwell or behind the seats. There is no roll cage to hang a stethoscope over on the Turbo though Today's tests...
RS4 B7: looks good inside and out, nice V8 noise, loved the chassis, good brakes, excellent body control on B-roads, decent ride comfort and refinement. Manual gearchange is nice, clutch is fine. Steering felt numb, but accurate. Torque was impressive off idle, but never built to anything interesting until 6500 RPM from which point it felt genuinely quick. For me, fails in the thrust department.
E60 M5: nice engine noise, I like SMG, not difficult to be smooth with it, as E46 M3 SMG II a bit slow to change gear at low revs, overall I prefer a torque converter. I like the HUD, the toys, ride comfort superb in comfort mode, best of anything tried so far. I gave the car as good a workout as I could depending on traffic and visibility, after a while like the M3 the steering started to vibrate slightly under braking. Traction was superb in the dry smoothish stuff, excellent roll control for a big heavy car, and reasonable turn in, but the rack felt a bit slow. Acceleration was impressive (not quite epic, but not far off) at high RPM, but like the RS4 it really needed the right gear. It did fall apart on any suspension setting on a bumpy B-road - it simply ran out of suspension travel and the wheels left the ground and the traction control was intervening. On similar roads (albeit at slightly lower speed as it didn't accelerate as fast, the M5 could dial up some impressive numbers), the RS4 had considerably better vertical body control.
Last edited by john banks; 03 June 2009 at 04:53 PM.
03 June 2009, 05:56 PM
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Would you use Star Performance for any upgrades, if you were to get the RS6?
Being fairly close to you, i'd consider this as a plus. No-one likes to travel a distance for any work to be done.
Seen as you've tried a couple of RWD cars, what about an XKR or Vantage....although the latter would mean a small distance in travel for servicing and i know they aren't the most reliable...
Christ, you could go nuts and get a Vantage or Conti GT!
Being fairly close to you, i'd consider this as a plus. No-one likes to travel a distance for any work to be done.
Seen as you've tried a couple of RWD cars, what about an XKR or Vantage....although the latter would mean a small distance in travel for servicing and i know they aren't the most reliable...
Christ, you could go nuts and get a Vantage or Conti GT!
Last edited by drb5; 03 June 2009 at 05:57 PM.
03 June 2009, 07:18 PM
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I'm loving the test drive write ups John!
I'd just keep testing stuff - it's probably more fun than actually buying a serious money pit (but fun) of a car!
I'm starting to have RS4 Avant thoughts - just got a load more work in!
I'd just keep testing stuff - it's probably more fun than actually buying a serious money pit (but fun) of a car!
I'm starting to have RS4 Avant thoughts - just got a load more work in!
03 June 2009, 07:21 PM
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As you are moved by engine tone - the 997 sounds ok but nothing like the normally aspirated Porches. They also don't have endless rev bands like Scoobs - lots of torque and long gearing though.
Hoppy - indeed you are right - it is Internet Tyre Kicking (tm) it must have been late and I got myself confused.
As for that Scirocco - what was I thinking about?!
Hoppy - indeed you are right - it is Internet Tyre Kicking (tm) it must have been late and I got myself confused.
As for that Scirocco - what was I thinking about?!
03 June 2009, 07:25 PM
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As you are moved by engine tone - the 997 sounds ok but nothing like the normally aspirated Porches. They also don't have endless rev bands like Scoobs - lots of torque and long gearing though.
Hoppy - indeed you are right - it is Internet Tyre Kicking (tm) it must have been late and I got myself confused.
As for that Scirocco - what was I thinking about?!
Hoppy - indeed you are right - it is Internet Tyre Kicking (tm) it must have been late and I got myself confused.
As for that Scirocco - what was I thinking about?!
03 June 2009, 08:11 PM
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The RS6 probably wouldn't need any upgrades, it is a monster as standard, but if it did, all it would be would be a remap which would be knocking on the door of 700 BHP (although it does weigh 2 tons). I'd want to get into the code myself if I could call in the odd favour and get the use of some software to do so.
jeremy, I've not ruled out the 996, but I do fancy the VTG/PASM/interior of the 997, and I doubt I'll have a problem with the handling of either as long as the front end bob doesn't ruin a B-road. Trout, I don't mind if it sounds like a Dyson, demented or otherwise, I just want insane torque and traction to deploy it all
jeremy, I've not ruled out the 996, but I do fancy the VTG/PASM/interior of the 997, and I doubt I'll have a problem with the handling of either as long as the front end bob doesn't ruin a B-road. Trout, I don't mind if it sounds like a Dyson, demented or otherwise, I just want insane torque and traction to deploy it all
03 June 2009, 11:31 PM
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John - the room up front in a 996 with 4WD is limited as I've found out recently, but there is plenty for a couple of bags on the back seats. Is this really an issue? What sort of kit do you need to carry? I know that I'm biased, but spooky is totally spot on - the NA engine sounds glorious through a good exhaust!
BTW - do you post on doctors.net?
BTW - do you post on doctors.net?
