Tidgy

do you sell front mounts bob? lol

there was a whole thread on this very subject, and turned into bob v the rest, backed up with no technical reaserch etc, where as the arguments that a front mount outperforms a top mount is backed up with test etc.

not saying anything about andy at all, just saying what the info says and that i think tis not correct.

as far as what fans used, in the real world air ballons up over the bonnet meanign the scoop isn't all in the air flow.

clinics car does run 450hp on a top mount, kev's said a front mount would achieve more, but would you want to cut an origional 22b front bumper?

i'll see if i can dig out the other thread, its about 8 pages long with discussions on it.

Tidgy

here ya go

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...-so-big-5.html

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

On a new age WRX, where it's easy to fit an STI top mount, I don't quite understand why you'd want to go through the pain of fitting a FMIC - they all involve significant cutting of bumpers and give that horrible "fmic" look.

I used to have a fmic (autobahn) and although it performed well, the throttle response is much crisper now that I've gone back to an STI top mount (with undertray). Intake temps were not a problem when mapping on a 25 degree day last year (only a couple of degrees over ambient once rolling) - this was from a standstill and a full throttle run up to fourth gear.

My car made 391 bhp on a td05-20g (on the deltadash, with 10(ish)% E85) using the top mount.

Tidgy

but thats using meth, what would your car do without meth and the map adjusted to suit? or with a front mount and meth?

you wont know temps are being hit unless you measure and compare top and front mount.

lets get this into persepctive, it isn't dangerous to run a top mount, what im saying is that power gets hit on hot days running a top mount so drops due to higher inlet temps. theres just no way round that.

Tidgy

you mean this wee beasty



been lucky enought o have a rid in it, **** me it goes like absolute stink!

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Ethanol, not meths

Anyway, my point is that at least on my car, an STI top mount is good enough for 391(ish) bhp out of a 20g (at which point the poor little thing will be pumping quite hot air), and this coupled with the loss of drivability (I know this is very subjective and not everybody experiences it, but in my mind, on my car etc, it was very noticeable).

My car has gone in stages.

Stage 1: FMIC and 353/335 on vpower (slightly disappointed with this figure)
Stage 2: TMIC and 353/354 on vpower + full bottle of NF (much better driveability, but still disappointed with the power figures
Stage 3: TMIC and 391/392 on vpower + E85. Totally ace driveability and very pleased with the power figures

Stage 3 runs higher boost than stage 1 and 2, so not a fair comparison, but still.

As you point out, I don't do any logging of temps normally, all I know is what Simon told me during the second and third remap with regards to inlet temps (that they were well controlled)

Apart from the driveability reason, I also wanted to get the big fat crash bar back in place, as the front end felt distinctly wobbly after having removed it to fit the fmic.

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Exactly what I found (going from TMIC to Hydrid FMIC back to TMIC). On hard sustained throttle in warm conditions, there's no doubt that you'll get a few more horses with a FMIC and it may therefore be better for track work or traffic light grand prixs. However, because the throttle response is so much sharper with the TMIC back on, accelerating through the gears on the road in real world driving conditions is (IMHO)noticeably quicker than when I had the FMIC fitted. And with a charge temp gauge fitted, I've never had more than 20C above ambient once on the move

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Can someone point me to the technical tests that show ROAD results for pre and post IC temps on both types of ICs?

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Yes.

You haven't answered the question asked earlier

It's not always about monitoring numbers etc. Even if fitting a gauge to measure chargetemps showed a slight benefit with a FMIC, I still know the car performs better with a TMIC - therefore the TMIC would stay. Don't get too caught up in numbers, some of the best performing moderately powered bhp for bhp cars run TMICs.

Thankfully these cars have been around for quite some time now and we know what works and what doesn't. Mappers are at the forefront of getting results of out cars and Andy Forrest being one of the most respected mappers in the country, so I hold a fair bit of weight on what he says.

Saying a FMIC is better than a TMIC without any downsides is silly IHMO. The extra pipework with a FMIC has it's downsides (lag between shifts), as does a TMIC (heatsoak).

TMICs and FMICs both have their place.

On my car the TMIC is staying put until 450+ as I know it works

scoobyhoobydoo

Whilst this would be interesting, I think the only “real” way to test is with a new o.e. Intercooler and Frontmount etc, the reason I say that is that a o.e. top mount will not be new and will have had x number of miles worth of stones, flies, road salt, dirt etc etc. This will impair the performance compared to a new intercooler. In the past I read a test and this compared a standard very tired intercooler with a new performance Intercooler and a charge cooler. Unsurprisingly the performance intercooler and the charge cooler were much improved in temps and “performance” over that of the OE item.

Austrian Impreza

iTrader: (9)

A realworld example:
I had very high intaketemps when waiting at the start of an autox run, about 25°C when starting the engine (with opened bonnet!!!) and when I rolled forward and got back into the car after closing the bonnet to get ready for the run, I had horrible 55°C intaketemp!!!
It was a 20°C day measured in my classic WRX with Apexi cone, STI V8 TMIC and undertray.
I do not want to say anything bad about the STI V8 TMIC, but I also think it was a problem to produce full power of my GT30 hybrid turbo.
Now I have a Hybrid GT-Spec FMIC from Harvey and it seems to be a total different power level, yet not really tuned to the edge!
I doubt it would have been possible to get that power (well over 400bhp estimated) out with the STI V8 TMIC!

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

interesting discussion, think we'll stick top mount and see how it goes

anyone got any good pointers on finding the Liquid C02 kits? is demon tweaks the only place i could go to get them?

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

okay lad i think this is the kit i need, just need help with regards to what size kit i should get for the sti-8 intercooler..

as im not sure what size hoop i need, suppose bigger is better as more liquid c02 will come out, whats the largest siz ei can get from here?

CryO2 Intercooler Sprayer | Cryogenic Systems | Demon Tweeks Motorsport, Motorcycle, Car Modifying, Parts and Accessories,Sparco, Arai

cheers

p.s. is that everything i need in that kit?

they also have this kit.. CryO2 Tank And Installation Kit | Cryogenic Systems | Demon Tweeks Motorsport, Motorcycle, Car Modifying, Parts and Accessories,Sparco, Arai

not sure if the first kit includes everything or if it'll be too short

i think all i need is a bottle, solinoid and hoop, pretty sure the first kit includes this..

want it to look something like this (jonny gavs car)

http://1.2.3.13/bmi/img.photobucket....onnygav/03.jpg


http://1.2.3.12/bmi/img.photobucket....onnygav/02.jpg

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

get a front mount and be done with it and they look great to 400.00 for a hybrid

Tidgy

if i missed a question sorry was trying to answer as many poss and must have missed it, what was it?

the whole lag thing i don't agree with either, i've gone from a td04 with top mount to a vf34 with front mount, the inital point of full boost is higher up the rev range due to the larger turbo and still running standard headers, pullies, flywheel etc which all make it a bit slower off the mark, however once on boost and through the gears i don't get lag at all, i know ns04 has gone from top mount to front mount as a direct swap with map tweeks and he doesn't get issues with lag either, personaly i think its a bit of a myth, or bad setup/mapping

typeRv4

Of course the title of the thread was largest BHP on a TMIC ! not is a FMIC better.

AndyF's 9 second giant TMIC creation I suspect would win the title - no idea how much power that made in that guise.

His other day car which runs 450hp+ on a sti 8 tmic - afaik.

OT - To my mind its up to the user what they want. TMIC will give abit better responce, a fmic will give abit more power.

The Scoobyclinic car mentioned above is insanely fast for the road on a TMIC, it would be a wee bit quicker with a FMIC but you probably couldn't use it on the road anyways or notice it. 450hp in a classic is pretty quick.

If we are talking motorsport / track work then yes fmic will work better - again horses for courses. Thats why we customise our cars so they are how we want them

Getting more power from subbies has moved on with better ic's turbos etc etc . 400hp these days is common yet not so long ago it was not so easy. And the same has occurred with TMIC's you can make very good power with them these days.

There is a guy local to me who has run a 10.9 sec qtr with a Sti 8 TMIC. That would have been unheard of a few years ago.

My road car + tmic makes more than enough power for me - if I was building a time attack car i'd go a different way. If i was making a drag car i'd go another way again.

Anyways if a TMIC setup can make enough power for your needs and you get better throttle responce than fmic. Sounds like a win win.

Tidgy

andys drag car does zero high speed runs, zero laps 0.25 miles, so heat isn't as much of an issue.

typeRv4

"Scoobyshootout on the 22nd May 2005 seen our Type R take the fastest Subaru of the day title.


On the 10th July at crail, this car set a new UK record of 10.2 second 1/4m and on the 17th july at Melbourne York, moved the goalposts a step further running 10.11 seconds.


A new world record for a manual gearbox Subaru was set at Crail on Aug 17th at with the Sti5 running 9.81 @ 147.5 mph. Driven to and from the event, running on Optimax plus booster (no race fuel here !)


This run was backed up by a 9.82 second run at Santa pod on the 3rd Sept 05


On the 19th Sept the car clocked a top speed of 199.4 MPH at Bruntingthorpe proving ground. The car was driven 300 miles to the event and drove home again.


A new world record was set on the 2nd of October 05..........


210.2 MPH timed by Straightliners at Elvington airfield. As far as we are aware this is the highest recorded top speed for an Impreza ANYWHERE !


"

sounds like a high speed run to me

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

i know what you mean, but for a fast road car that does 1 or 2 drags/trackdays.. it'll be fine with top mount andn c02.

i just want to be different and give something else a go if you get me.. all my previous cars have all had soemthing unique or different to the majority on lol i think its just me a bit tapped in the head

o wel

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

lol

I think all Scoob owners must be , so at least you're in good company .

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Just Remember Andy's car has ran in lots of different IC formats over the years, TMIC to FMIC to noIC then back to TMIC at present, so best to check which IC was used on the high speed run

Stevesbluewrx

iTrader: (4)

The thing people need to take into account is where is this thread going?

I didn't think it was a TMIC vs FMIC or for that matter AFP's Spec C RA vs other cars?

As I have said. My car is a everyday driver. I run a TMIC with 402.5bhp and 359lbft on tap. I really think as an everyday car more than this could be an over kill.

Going back to the first question. A OEM TMIC should be able to take upto 450 I'm sure?

Sorry for the little rant. I'll get my coat.

Steve

Andy.F

To try and answer the original question, it may be the 800+bhp on our type R ? This car is also road legal but it isn't too practical for daily use !

The spec C however is a better example of a daily driver/weekend racer and it runs approx 470bhp and 500-550lbft of torque on a std Sti8 TMIC.
Response is the key and thats my main reason for keeping the top mount. Recently we were only 1 second behind a full blown WRC car running on slicks at the Elvington scoobysprint and 2 seconds ahead of the nearest FMIC car in our road car class on that tight twisty circuit.
The car has also been used on Knockhill and Donington for up to 6 laps at a time with no heat related issues.

For info, the type 25 also retains the OE TMIC and that car is specifically designed as a trackday tool, with over 400bhp on tap.

Andy

PS I don't sell TMIC or FMIC's so have no commercial interest either way, I just have 1st hand experience of hundreds of modified Impreza's every year.

Tidgy

the ps is a good point becuase there are people on here with hidden agenda's in the marketing sence

have you tried either car with a front mount?