oil change,any pics
30 March 2009, 11:49 AM
#91
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Hmmmm, let me see who is standing full square behind me?
Yes, that will be the 100 or so Subaru Main Dealers .... and that group stood behind them are the Subaru Designers, Manufacturing Engineers and Production Specialists ..... yeah, I'm all alone in the type of advice I offer to the table
Yes, that will be the 100 or so Subaru Main Dealers .... and that group stood behind them are the Subaru Designers, Manufacturing Engineers and Production Specialists ..... yeah, I'm all alone in the type of advice I offer to the table
STOP PRESS ALL SUBARU DEALERS ARE GOD
Closely followed by Subaru Designers, Manufacturing Engineers and Production Specialists.
If they are all so damn knowledgeable & full of expertise in their "specialist subject" why was this allowed to happen?
Taken from Surrey Scoobies :-
Engine apart, Number 4 piston is cracked and the short block engine will be replaced under warranty.
The strange thing is though, when I rang the Subaru UK Warranty Department, before I had confirmed what piston it was, they said 'Number 4 gone then'...not a new problem then!
Turns out all MY08 STI's need a factory replacement engine map to eliminate knock / detonation when you put your foot down and are on boost. So despite all their testing & product knowledge they released a batch of cars that have a problem that should have been obvious from the start.
2009 WRX Engine Failure Poll - NASIOC
Come sale time dealer stamps in your service book only point out that the owner has more money than sense. Not a good negotiating tool.
Subaru, as you may be aware, make exeedingly reliable machines ..... they are up there with the very best - look at any survey. Subaru only fall down on price of parts/servicing. Really 
Please see below
Can you point me to the recall/service bulletin which warns us owners of a possible Big End failure if we follow the servicing procedure of their Main Dealers?
Can you point me to the posts on Subaru forums which warns us owners of a possible Crank sensor connector failure if we follow the servicing procedure of knowledgeable independant specialists?
Back at you.
Please see belowCan you point me to the recall/service bulletin which warns us owners of a possible Big End failure if we follow the servicing procedure of their Main Dealers?
Can you point me to the posts on Subaru forums which warns us owners of a possible Crank sensor connector failure if we follow the servicing procedure of knowledgeable independant specialists?
Back at you.
Subaru Recalls: a list of recalls on various models.
A few prime examples in case you can't be ar$ed to read through it all:-
- Inspection of the VDC G Sensor that may be installed backwards in app 5,130 vehicles.
- Inspect, modify and possibly replace the turbo charger oil supply pipe on approximately 16,715 07 & 08 Legacy GT, Outback 5XT, 2008 Impreza WRX (except STI) and a very small number of early production 2009 Forester XT models. Affected vehicles may have a turbo charger oil supply pipe that was deformed due to misalignment during the assembly process. Turbo
Dodgy oil feed Phew it's ok Subaru are watching over things - Inspect and possibly perform repairs to the rear gate stay stud bolts and welded nuts on approximately 36,791 2002 and 2003 Impreza wagons.
30 March 2009, 01:42 PM
#93
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The abbreviation QED signals the completion of the proof, I see no proof of damage caused by not disconnecting the Crank Sensor.
Flat Eric/Mark ...... good grief man, that's a lot to read and try to find some hard evidence. You seem to have gone off the topic of the Crank Sensor Disconnect and gone on about how cr4p Subaru are. I am, in all honesty, amazed that you have a Subaru ... you don't rate them very highly at all, do you? - may I point you to a TVR or Alfa - they are probably much more reliable
Whatever you say, the Subaru Main Dealers laugh their socks off at the very idea of a Crank Sensor Disconnect after an Oil change ... it's not a matter of, "We will look into that, Sir" ... it's a matter of, "Don't listen to the Hobbyists" ... their words, not mine. I used to be genuinely concerned about this topic and the damage it would do to my car - but, of course, it's a non issue.
My experience of my last 9 Oil Changes on the Subaru tells me that absolutely nothing bad has happened due to me starting the engine after an Oil change, in just the same way as 1000's of cars each and every day are serviced.
Just my experience, engineering knowledge and 'gut feeling'.
Flat Eric/Mark ...... good grief man, that's a lot to read and try to find some hard evidence. You seem to have gone off the topic of the Crank Sensor Disconnect and gone on about how cr4p Subaru are. I am, in all honesty, amazed that you have a Subaru ... you don't rate them very highly at all, do you? - may I point you to a TVR or Alfa - they are probably much more reliable
Whatever you say, the Subaru Main Dealers laugh their socks off at the very idea of a Crank Sensor Disconnect after an Oil change ... it's not a matter of, "We will look into that, Sir" ... it's a matter of, "Don't listen to the Hobbyists" ... their words, not mine. I used to be genuinely concerned about this topic and the damage it would do to my car - but, of course, it's a non issue.
My experience of my last 9 Oil Changes on the Subaru tells me that absolutely nothing bad has happened due to me starting the engine after an Oil change, in just the same way as 1000's of cars each and every day are serviced.
Just my experience, engineering knowledge and 'gut feeling'.
30 March 2009, 02:14 PM
#94
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I was told of a main dealer that disconnected the crank sensor for their oil changes.
After a year or so of doing this they reported less big end rebuilds,
Coincidence, i think not....
After a year or so of doing this they reported less big end rebuilds,
Coincidence, i think not....
30 March 2009, 02:40 PM
#96
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Let me know who it was and I shall do some research, genuinely interested.
30 March 2009, 06:00 PM
#97
its always the plugs........ thanks for that joz
30 March 2009, 08:18 PM
#102
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it seems the scooby oil change procedure is quite famous across the pond
a different oil change procedure...? - Drive Accord Honda Forums
a different oil change procedure...? - Drive Accord Honda Forums
The world thinks we are a bunch of idiots
Note to world - I DO NOT DISCONNECT THE SENSOR!!!!
I liked this quote:-
"This is HILARIOUS! Gee, this is almost as funny as the audio myths article I read years ago in video review. They were talking about directional speaker wire, green markers for CD's and little platforms for speaker wire so that the electrons aren't disturbed"
Which has pretty much positioned it where it should be
30 March 2009, 08:20 PM
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30 March 2009, 09:05 PM
#105
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The abbreviation QED signals the completion of the proof, I see no proof of damage caused by not disconnecting the Crank Sensor.
I see no proof of damage by disconnecting it. Surely by now someone should have posted up "My electrics have fried & my starter motor has fallen off. How should I change my oil next time? Anyone got pictures?"
Flat Eric/Mark ...... good grief man, that's a lot to read and try to find some hard evidence. You seem to have gone off the topic of the Crank Sensor Disconnect and gone on about how cr4p Subaru are. I am, in all honesty, amazed that you have a Subaru ... you don't rate them very highly at all, do you? - may I point you to a TVR or Alfa - they are probably much more reliable
The reason I point out Subaru for it's failings is to show that they, like all other manufacturers (including the likes of TVR & Alfa), have ****** in their armour & should not be viewed through your rose coloured glasses as being all knowing & never wrong. So not off topic at all.
You believe everything a Subaru dealer tells you. I believe they are not always right & gave you the proof.
Whatever you say, the Subaru Main Dealers laugh their socks off at the very idea of a Crank Sensor Disconnect after an Oil change ... .
Some of those very Subaru dealers that laugh their socks off may not be all they seem. You do realise that to become a dealer one of the main criteria is more to do with the showroom & it's location than mechanical prowess alone. After all any grease monkey can be shown how to change the oil on a Subaru according to you as it's "just another engine like any other". Dealers come & go like pop stars & fashion. In Essex an established one lost it's franchise & another came like a Phoenix out of it's ashes. Up till then they had never even seen a Subaru yet alone serviced one. The first gearbox job they got they passed it on to a third party to do as it was "outside" their scope. Makes you wonder if they have even heard that there is a safer way to change the oil. And yes they would probably laugh their socks off at the very notion.
I see no proof of damage by disconnecting it. Surely by now someone should have posted up "My electrics have fried & my starter motor has fallen off. How should I change my oil next time? Anyone got pictures?"
Flat Eric/Mark ...... good grief man, that's a lot to read and try to find some hard evidence. You seem to have gone off the topic of the Crank Sensor Disconnect and gone on about how cr4p Subaru are. I am, in all honesty, amazed that you have a Subaru ... you don't rate them very highly at all, do you? - may I point you to a TVR or Alfa - they are probably much more reliable
The reason I point out Subaru for it's failings is to show that they, like all other manufacturers (including the likes of TVR & Alfa), have ****** in their armour & should not be viewed through your rose coloured glasses as being all knowing & never wrong. So not off topic at all.
You believe everything a Subaru dealer tells you. I believe they are not always right & gave you the proof.
Whatever you say, the Subaru Main Dealers laugh their socks off at the very idea of a Crank Sensor Disconnect after an Oil change ... .
Some of those very Subaru dealers that laugh their socks off may not be all they seem. You do realise that to become a dealer one of the main criteria is more to do with the showroom & it's location than mechanical prowess alone. After all any grease monkey can be shown how to change the oil on a Subaru according to you as it's "just another engine like any other". Dealers come & go like pop stars & fashion. In Essex an established one lost it's franchise & another came like a Phoenix out of it's ashes. Up till then they had never even seen a Subaru yet alone serviced one. The first gearbox job they got they passed it on to a third party to do as it was "outside" their scope. Makes you wonder if they have even heard that there is a safer way to change the oil. And yes they would probably laugh their socks off at the very notion.
You would think after over 10 years of Subaru ownership I would know better but I guess I am slow on the uptake (apart from where it comes to oil change methods).
Having lived & breathed & disconnected sensors on my :-
MY98Classic
MY00 P1
MY01 UK300
MY03 WRX Stealth Wagon
I think I should know a little about the marque. Not all but a little.
And I know nothing about changing starter motors or crank sensor wiring.
And how does anything from a Honda forum have anything unbiased to add to this exchange of opinion?
30 March 2009, 09:40 PM
#107
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tbh when I first posted on this subject, being a relative newbie I didnt quite realise the "history" of the oil/crank sensor debate.
i now appreciate what a "can of worms" it is -- I did put in an earlier post something to the effect of "unless the boxer engine works differently to every other engine" -- before I fully realised that to some it most definitely does
however nor do i blindly follow what Subaru (or any other expert for that matter) says, I weigh the evidence, like every sensible person, listen to the views and come to my own conclusion, and I just cant see the reason for churning the engine reletively slowly under high load does it any favours and that any pressure built up is worth spending more time that necessary in the "wear zone"
but I fully appreciate people (some maybe more qualified that me) take a different view
that what makes the world go round
nice cars btw -- the black one looks a beast -- is that a battery conditioner on the window btw
i now appreciate what a "can of worms" it is -- I did put in an earlier post something to the effect of "unless the boxer engine works differently to every other engine" -- before I fully realised that to some it most definitely does
however nor do i blindly follow what Subaru (or any other expert for that matter) says, I weigh the evidence, like every sensible person, listen to the views and come to my own conclusion, and I just cant see the reason for churning the engine reletively slowly under high load does it any favours and that any pressure built up is worth spending more time that necessary in the "wear zone"
but I fully appreciate people (some maybe more qualified that me) take a different view
that what makes the world go round
nice cars btw -- the black one looks a beast -- is that a battery conditioner on the window btw
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 30 March 2009 at 09:42 PM.
30 March 2009, 09:44 PM
#109
tbh when I first posted on this subject, being a relative newbie I didnt quite realise the "history" of the oil/crank sensor debate.
i now appreciate what a "can of worms" it is -- I did put in an earlier post something to the effect of "unless the boxer engine works differently to every other engine" -- before I fully realised that to some it most definitely does
however nor do i blindly follow what Subaru (or any other expert for that matter) says, I weigh the evidence, like every sensible person, listen to the views and come to my own conclusion, and I just cant see the reason for churning the engine reletively slowly under high load does it any favours and that any pressure built up is worth spending more time that necessary in the "wear zone"
but I fully appreciate people (some maybe more qualified that me) take a different view
that what makes the world go round
nice cars btw -- the black one looks a beast -- is that a battery conditioner on the window btw
i now appreciate what a "can of worms" it is -- I did put in an earlier post something to the effect of "unless the boxer engine works differently to every other engine" -- before I fully realised that to some it most definitely does
however nor do i blindly follow what Subaru (or any other expert for that matter) says, I weigh the evidence, like every sensible person, listen to the views and come to my own conclusion, and I just cant see the reason for churning the engine reletively slowly under high load does it any favours and that any pressure built up is worth spending more time that necessary in the "wear zone"
but I fully appreciate people (some maybe more qualified that me) take a different view
that what makes the world go round
nice cars btw -- the black one looks a beast -- is that a battery conditioner on the window btw
my thoughts exactly!
30 March 2009, 11:26 PM
#111
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tbh when I first posted on this subject, being a relative newbie I didn't quite realise the "history" of the oil/crank sensor debate.
i now appreciate what a "can of worms" it is -- I did put in an earlier post something to the effect of "unless the boxer engine works differently to every other engine" -- before I fully realised that to some it most definitely does
however nor do i blindly follow what Subaru (or any other expert for that matter) says, I weigh the evidence, like every sensible person, listen to the views and come to my own conclusion, and I just cant see the reason for churning the engine relatively slowly under high load does it any favours and that any pressure built up is worth spending more time that necessary in the "wear zone"
but I fully appreciate people (some maybe more qualified that me) take a different view
that what makes the world go round
nice cars btw -- the black one looks a beast -- is that a battery conditioner on the window btw
i now appreciate what a "can of worms" it is -- I did put in an earlier post something to the effect of "unless the boxer engine works differently to every other engine" -- before I fully realised that to some it most definitely does
however nor do i blindly follow what Subaru (or any other expert for that matter) says, I weigh the evidence, like every sensible person, listen to the views and come to my own conclusion, and I just cant see the reason for churning the engine relatively slowly under high load does it any favours and that any pressure built up is worth spending more time that necessary in the "wear zone"
but I fully appreciate people (some maybe more qualified that me) take a different view
that what makes the world go round
nice cars btw -- the black one looks a beast -- is that a battery conditioner on the window btw
By no way of criticism may I clear up the point you raised that I highlighted in red above.
The strain on the engine & starter when turning the engine over with or without the sensor connected is exactly the same up to the point the engine fires. Added to this is the strain from the friction of the piston & rings in the bore plus the friction of all the bearings mentioned below. Again this is exactly the same whichever method is used.
The difference comes when with the sensor connected the starter disengages & the fired up engine continues to turn. Now you have the considerable forces of combustion pushing down onto the piston, the small end bearing, the con rod,the big end bearing, the crank & finally the main bearing. There will be a residual film of oil on the bearing surfaces but only a film & some of this will be disturbed as any air in the system pushes past. If this film breaks down you get metal to metal contact & then your bearing is compromised.
Remember this is all happening on every revolution of the engine whist you are waiting for the oil galleries to fill (empty from removing the oil filter) & for the pump to prime & the oil pressure to build. Until that film is reinforced by fresh oil arriving it is being squeezed out by the pressure from every firing cycle.
Now with the sensor disconnected the engine turns by way of the starter so no combustion forces come into play. We are not talking about churning it over for hours on end yet alone minutes. In reality the oil light goes out after not much longer than it takes with the engine fired up.
Although everyone was quick to pooh pooh the spark plug removal bit there is method in the madness for those that were worried about the extra work the starter would have to do. With the plugs out the pistons flop up & down the bores with no pressure or vacuum forces acting on them so giving the starter an easy time of it.
If you think about it though a starter motor is more than capable of turning over a non firing engine without self destructing. It happens every cold damp morning across the country. It's usually the battery that gives up the ghost not the starter. Ask any AA/RAC/Green Flag man. Hence why I don't remove the plugs.
Sorry for being long winded & thanks for your kind words about my cars & yes the black one is a bit of a beast & yes it is a battery conditioner you spy on the windscreen.
30 March 2009, 11:42 PM
#112
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I did notice that thing, I was terrified to ask; fearing an answer like:-
"That's a 'RallyXV SuperRally Racing Pre Oiling Device' which you need before you do an Oil change, this device takes the suns energy and converts into electricity, the other end is placed into the sump making all the Oil molecules line up in a chain, aiding Oil drainage - engines have been known to sludge-up without this device and engine failures have been known to occur" For sale at your local 'Care in the Community' retail outlet.
Glad it's just a battery conditioner
"That's a 'RallyXV SuperRally Racing Pre Oiling Device' which you need before you do an Oil change, this device takes the suns energy and converts into electricity, the other end is placed into the sump making all the Oil molecules line up in a chain, aiding Oil drainage - engines have been known to sludge-up without this device and engine failures have been known to occur" For sale at your local 'Care in the Community' retail outlet.
Glad it's just a battery conditioner
31 March 2009, 12:32 AM
#113
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I did notice that thing, I was terrified to ask; fearing an answer like:-
"That's a 'RallyXV SuperRally Racing Pre Oiling Device' which you need before you do an Oil change, this device takes the suns energy and converts into electricity, the other end is placed into the sump making all the Oil molecules line up in a chain, aiding Oil drainage - engines have been known to sludge-up without this device and engine failures have been known to occur" For sale at your local 'Care in the Community' retail outlet.
Glad it's just a battery conditioner
"That's a 'RallyXV SuperRally Racing Pre Oiling Device' which you need before you do an Oil change, this device takes the suns energy and converts into electricity, the other end is placed into the sump making all the Oil molecules line up in a chain, aiding Oil drainage - engines have been known to sludge-up without this device and engine failures have been known to occur" For sale at your local 'Care in the Community' retail outlet.
Glad it's just a battery conditioner
Which involves lining up your car along the Interplanetary Magnetic Field Lines to induce a state of ambient neutral flux in the ferrous components of the car thus aiding oil flow & distribution. I have furnished a map to help with your alignment. Remember to allow for axial shift on a leap year or you risk the washer bottle imploding.
And before anyone asks, no the conditioner will not work on hair I checked with a dealer just to be sure.
31 March 2009, 10:01 AM
#115
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yep, and no worries Eric, thanks for your reply too
now can we move the debate onto whether the subaru AWD is the same as four wheel drive, 4X4 etc as there seems to be some confusion here too:-)
now can we move the debate onto whether the subaru AWD is the same as four wheel drive, 4X4 etc as there seems to be some confusion here too:-)
31 March 2009, 08:18 PM
#116
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Then can we discus the merits or not of doing an intermediate oil change on a New Age at 6 months/5000 miles when the schedule says it only needs doing at 1 year/10000 miles. With modern good quality oils being so good is it overkill or is it just being prudent?
That should see us through to the following year. Popcorn anyone?
Last edited by FLAT ERIC; 31 March 2009 at 08:35 PM. Reason: To add "on a New Age"
31 March 2009, 08:19 PM
#117
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Well the AWD/4X4/4WD debate should see us through to next year.
Then can we discus the merits or not of doing an intermediate oil change at 6 months/5000 miles when the schedule says it only needs doing at 1 year/10000 miles. With modern good quality oils being so good is it overkill or is it just being prudent?
That should see us through to the following year. Popcorn anyone?
Then can we discus the merits or not of doing an intermediate oil change at 6 months/5000 miles when the schedule says it only needs doing at 1 year/10000 miles. With modern good quality oils being so good is it overkill or is it just being prudent?
That should see us through to the following year. Popcorn anyone?