litchfield twin scroll turbo
03 August 2010, 12:58 PM
#571
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Assuming everything else is up to the job, you would also need a set of injectors and another remap. Engine should be fine at this level.
Litchfields sell an aptly named "LM420" for your bhp needs.
Tony,
Damn I have been busted!
Litchfields sell an aptly named "LM420" for your bhp needs.
Tony,
Damn I have been busted!
03 August 2010, 01:05 PM
#572
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hey guys i own o hawk eye spec-c with hks hi-power spec-r muffler a gruppe m ram air filter and sard racing radiator. oh and ecutec remap by subaru guru Bob Rawle. i'm thinking to upgrade my vf36. i want something near the 420bhp and a lot responce. what kind of turbo do you suggest? is my standard spec-c engine up the job? what else do i need for that kind of power?
I think the LM400 would be better suited for your needs, great spool and pulls very hard throughout the rev range
http://www.proplates.co.uk/
03 August 2010, 04:10 PM
#573
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does the lm420 has o lot difference in lag than lm400? do i need a fmic? (i live in cyprus280 sunny days per year). if i do need what do you think about the aps 525.? thanks dan and shaun for your previous info.
03 August 2010, 07:22 PM
#574
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FMIC will certainly help to get the best but you will lose some level of response.
Personally I will not be moving from a TMIC on my car, unless I absolutely have to and cost for gain is really worth it. Saying that, I don't live in a country that actually has temperatures greater than 15degs most of the year!
Lag wise, I suspect there will be some level of difference between those two turbos. Specifically how much (or I suspect how little) I don't know.
Personally I will not be moving from a TMIC on my car, unless I absolutely have to and cost for gain is really worth it. Saying that, I don't live in a country that actually has temperatures greater than 15degs most of the year!
Lag wise, I suspect there will be some level of difference between those two turbos. Specifically how much (or I suspect how little) I don't know.
04 August 2010, 12:22 PM
#575
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I've not been on the rollers in current state of tune but Iain and i reckon it is approx 400 and a great day 2 day option. Spool up is very very slightly later than the original turbo, but it is much stronger mid range and top end is a totally different ball game.
Put a CAI and FMIC and you will see 420 easily in my and Iain's view with practically no difference in low speed drive-ability but large other gains.
BTW ..think you need to talk about CAI and FMIC options to Iain as he has experience of which ones seem to perform better that others
04 August 2010, 12:58 PM
#576
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The thing is, to upgrade to a CAI and FMIC is going to cost you a fair old whack. Too many people get bent out of shape about achieving a couple more bhp, that in reality you probably won't notice. All for the pleasure of having that graph in your hands! I have been there and done it!
However, I do appreciate that once you get to a certain level you may need to look at other ancillary options to get the best out of the turbo spec you are buying. In my view though, this is what makes something like the LM400 so appealing and why others are raving about it from a road car perspective. Minimal outlay for something that should of been on twinscroll cars out of the factory.
If you want the extra grunt then you will obviously need a bigger turbo, but there will always be a trade off with the same design of turbo against a smaller wheel/housing. Turbo's designs are specifications are getting better and better.
Litchfield's and TD are continuing to work on making them even better. Evolution stands still for no man or Subaru modder!
I have been there and done it! However, I do appreciate that once you get to a certain level you may need to look at other ancillary options to get the best out of the turbo spec you are buying. In my view though, this is what makes something like the LM400 so appealing and why others are raving about it from a road car perspective. Minimal outlay for something that should of been on twinscroll cars out of the factory.
If you want the extra grunt then you will obviously need a bigger turbo, but there will always be a trade off with the same design of turbo against a smaller wheel/housing. Turbo's designs are specifications are getting better and better.
Litchfield's and TD are continuing to work on making them even better.
Evolution stands still for no man or Subaru modder!
04 August 2010, 02:47 PM
#578
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Didn't someone mention billet compressor wheels ?
Potentially more nickel content - similar to alloys used in aero applications, higher temperature tolerances, less weight ?
Or variable geometry technology ?
Potentially more nickel content - similar to alloys used in aero applications, higher temperature tolerances, less weight ?
Or variable geometry technology ?
Last edited by stanmo; 04 August 2010 at 03:56 PM.
04 August 2010, 05:06 PM
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after a bit of searcing and your advice, i think will start with a syms 75mm de-cat downpipe. a forge wastegate and 600cc injectors. then save some money and go for the lm420 or hks2835. will a 2.1 L stroker kit like engine tuner kit will be helpful on making power and longevity in my spec-c engine?
06 August 2010, 10:01 AM
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Progress update on the LM480.
Interim map yesterday with flat 1.2 bar boost gave a max of 438BHP, 430ft-lbs. But after some tweeking to increase the area under the graphs, flattening out the peaks etc it went down to about 430/420 ish.
More tweeking today
If I've understood this right, we can't go above 1.2 bar on the ecu until the Racerom version comes out as it just chops the timing back.
Will it make 480 at 1.6-7 bar ?.............
Hurry up Racerom !!!
Interim map yesterday with flat 1.2 bar boost gave a max of 438BHP, 430ft-lbs. But after some tweeking to increase the area under the graphs, flattening out the peaks etc it went down to about 430/420 ish.
More tweeking today
If I've understood this right, we can't go above 1.2 bar on the ecu until the Racerom version comes out as it just chops the timing back.
Will it make 480 at 1.6-7 bar ?.............
Hurry up Racerom !!!
06 August 2010, 11:12 AM
#582
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Great figure for low boost Stan, spoke with Alan yesterday and I could hear the car in the background Sounded great! I think they will have produced a superb engine package when it it is all finished.
Sounded great! I think they will have produced a superb engine package when it it is all finished.
06 August 2010, 11:19 AM
#583
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Iain, do you have any logs/graphs for the LM400 and LM420 on a 2.0 JDM. Would be nice to see a few to help me decide between the two.
06 August 2010, 12:04 PM
#584
Progress update on the LM480.
Interim map yesterday with flat 1.2 bar boost gave a max of 438BHP, 430ft-lbs. But after some tweeking to increase the area under the graphs, flattening out the peaks etc it went down to about 430/420 ish.
More tweeking today
If I've understood this right, we can't go above 1.2 bar on the ecu until the Racerom version comes out as it just chops the timing back.
Will it make 480 at 1.6-7 bar ?.............
Hurry up Racerom !!!
Interim map yesterday with flat 1.2 bar boost gave a max of 438BHP, 430ft-lbs. But after some tweeking to increase the area under the graphs, flattening out the peaks etc it went down to about 430/420 ish.
More tweeking today
If I've understood this right, we can't go above 1.2 bar on the ecu until the Racerom version comes out as it just chops the timing back.
Will it make 480 at 1.6-7 bar ?.............
Hurry up Racerom !!!
Mine made 470bhp/460ft-lb as you know, with a 1.7bar peak holding 1.6bar - that's with a centre cat. So you should make your 480 (ish) OK I would say
FWIW, mine's being held back by something that I have never managed to pin down though as spool is not as good as I think it should be and I feel there should be more torque there at that boost...so I might have to dig deep and go Syvecs and then try and run with 10% meth as well
06 August 2010, 12:27 PM
#585
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Tim,
It may be worth contacting Syvecs and asking if you can borrow an ECU via JGM. Even if you paid to "rent" the ecu and for JGM to map it to try, at least you won't be forking out a shedload of cash if it does not make any difference.
Where are you seeing 1bar on the road in 5th / 6th?
It may be worth contacting Syvecs and asking if you can borrow an ECU via JGM. Even if you paid to "rent" the ecu and for JGM to map it to try, at least you won't be forking out a shedload of cash if it does not make any difference.
Where are you seeing 1bar on the road in 5th / 6th?
06 August 2010, 12:50 PM
#586
And...late breaking news from Subaru4You...exhaust header gaskets are blowing AGAIN!! That's the second set in a few months, as well as the up and downpipe gaskets going!!!
1 bar is 3200/3300 and 1.6/1.7 about 3800rpm.
In 4th, not much happens below 4000rpm. I went out in a 480bhp 2.35 running an MD555 and it spooled 500rpm earlier than mine...which is a bit daft given the twin scroll setup and mine being a 2.5.
Or am I just expecting too much
06 August 2010, 05:42 PM
#587
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Re the query on the 420 ... I've just looked back at some of my previous posts in this thread and re-added them for you ..
Please keep remembering ... I've yet to get a dyno plot for my current setup.
Please keep remembering ... I've yet to get a dyno plot for my current setup.
Went on the same rollers that I had previously been on when the car was in previous setup yesterday.
I am NOT going to give out what the 'stats' were .. because that is exactly what they are ... history ... as Iain used the data to analyse improvements that could be made .. and today we spent 2+ hours improving the map considerably.
I will however say this :
Iain's data gathering was primarily done on a MY08 JDM STi with FMIC and Induction Kit ... so don't be surprised or disappointed if you don't hit exactly the expected power levels if you haven't got those on your car ... That said ..... whoever gets one of these turbos and has it mapped properly is not going to be disappointed at all with the way the car drives .. it is simply wonderful, giving it the much needed 'grunt' that was missing mid to late revs in standard form
As an example ...
Before the improvements were made today .. an overlay on my previous standard turbo showed that spool up on the new turbo was just 100k revs later .. and it created 55 more hp by 6.3k revs. Now ... I would not be surprised if spool up is quicker AND probably generating more than 65 hp more .. or possibly even more
The original JDM STi turbo ran out of puff by 6.3k ... but this is not the case now ... it really is a great turbo and 'feels right' for the car as both a very quick daily driver, as well as more serious track car
Go on .. you know you want to ......
I am NOT going to give out what the 'stats' were .. because that is exactly what they are ... history ... as Iain used the data to analyse improvements that could be made .. and today we spent 2+ hours improving the map considerably.
I will however say this :
Iain's data gathering was primarily done on a MY08 JDM STi with FMIC and Induction Kit ... so don't be surprised or disappointed if you don't hit exactly the expected power levels if you haven't got those on your car ... That said ..... whoever gets one of these turbos and has it mapped properly is not going to be disappointed at all with the way the car drives .. it is simply wonderful, giving it the much needed 'grunt' that was missing mid to late revs in standard form
As an example ...
Before the improvements were made today .. an overlay on my previous standard turbo showed that spool up on the new turbo was just 100k revs later .. and it created 55 more hp by 6.3k revs. Now ... I would not be surprised if spool up is quicker AND probably generating more than 65 hp more .. or possibly even more
The original JDM STi turbo ran out of puff by 6.3k ... but this is not the case now ... it really is a great turbo and 'feels right' for the car as both a very quick daily driver, as well as more serious track car
Go on .. you know you want to ......
I appreciate your desire for this information but believe me it would be utterly pointless ... the map now is TOTALLY different ... as is the car's performance.
As an example (if I can remember correctly) .. Iain moved the spool up to be earlier, addressed a slight dip in performance mid range as well as focusing on a drop off at high revs by a combination of adding more boost, leaning out the fuel and minimised the likelihood of ignition reduction when the temp got too hot ... ie it is a significantly different animal
Again .. as I keep saying on this forum .. talk to Iain ... especially on how each version compares .... all I can say is that he was very impressed with its performance yesterday once we'd finished the mapping for a car with no upgraded Induction or FMIC .. and he has the laptop with all the data on it ....
Furthermore .. I was grinning from ear to ear going home yesterday as well as when driving today.
As an example (if I can remember correctly) .. Iain moved the spool up to be earlier, addressed a slight dip in performance mid range as well as focusing on a drop off at high revs by a combination of adding more boost, leaning out the fuel and minimised the likelihood of ignition reduction when the temp got too hot ... ie it is a significantly different animal
Again .. as I keep saying on this forum .. talk to Iain ... especially on how each version compares .... all I can say is that he was very impressed with its performance yesterday once we'd finished the mapping for a car with no upgraded Induction or FMIC .. and he has the laptop with all the data on it ....
Furthermore .. I was grinning from ear to ear going home yesterday as well as when driving today.
What I will show is an extract of how different the turbo performs compare to the standard at the top end .. BUT REMEMBER ... this has now been improved further
solid line is bhp ... dotted torque .. top lines of each the new turbo .. the bottom ones the old original turbo
solid line is bhp ... dotted torque .. top lines of each the new turbo .. the bottom ones the old original turbo
06 August 2010, 08:22 PM
#588
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Good thinking Shaun - will be meeting up with Simon at Surrey Rolling Road for a quick health check later this month, so could discuss it then.
And...late breaking news from Subaru4You...exhaust header gaskets are blowing AGAIN!! That's the second set in a few months, as well as the up and downpipe gaskets going!!!
1 bar is 3200/3300 and 1.6/1.7 about 3800rpm.
In 4th, not much happens below 4000rpm. I went out in a 480bhp 2.35 running an MD555 and it spooled 500rpm earlier than mine...which is a bit daft given the twin scroll setup and mine being a 2.5.
Or am I just expecting too much
And...late breaking news from Subaru4You...exhaust header gaskets are blowing AGAIN!! That's the second set in a few months, as well as the up and downpipe gaskets going!!!
1 bar is 3200/3300 and 1.6/1.7 about 3800rpm.
In 4th, not much happens below 4000rpm. I went out in a 480bhp 2.35 running an MD555 and it spooled 500rpm earlier than mine...which is a bit daft given the twin scroll setup and mine being a 2.5.
Or am I just expecting too much
My total spec is quite a bit different to yours (so should not really be compared), but I see 1bar at sub 3k and 1.9bar by circa 3200/3300 (both in 5th/6th) using a single scroll 3076 core turbo making 530bhp.
Different engines and specs respond differently..... even using the same turbo, so it gets very difficult to compare on a like for like basis!
Last edited by Shaun; 06 August 2010 at 08:39 PM.
07 August 2010, 12:51 AM
#590
Would be good to compare an STI/SPEC C with stage one mods against one of these turbo conversions. At the moment it's mixed reports due to everyone having a different spec and not hitting the quoted figures . I am not really a figure chaser tbh and as long as theres a noticeable improvment i'll be happy. The LM400 seems very similar to the vf42 which provides great punch from low down ,but is stronger in mid and hi rev range.
Any of you guy slocal to Manchester?
Immy
Any of you guy slocal to Manchester?
Immy
07 August 2010, 01:13 AM
#591
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Immy,
I will be doing stage 1 mods and testing a couple of these turbos, on my JDM Hawkeye in due course. Watch out for my next project thread!
I will be doing stage 1 mods and testing a couple of these turbos, on my JDM Hawkeye in due course. Watch out for my next project thread!
07 August 2010, 01:46 AM
#592
07 August 2010, 04:09 PM
#593
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Intriqued that you need the racerom - is it a peculiarity of the '08 onwards ecu then, as mine's been OK using EcuTek? Is it maybe a case of the knock sensor being too sensitive and, perhaps, needing to be relocated?
Mine made 470bhp/460ft-lb as you know, with a 1.7bar peak holding 1.6bar - that's with a centre cat. So you should make your 480 (ish) OK I would say
FWIW, mine's being held back by something that I have never managed to pin down though as spool is not as good as I think it should be and I feel there should be more torque there at that boost...so I might have to dig deep and go Syvecs and then try and run with 10% meth as well
Mine made 470bhp/460ft-lb as you know, with a 1.7bar peak holding 1.6bar - that's with a centre cat. So you should make your 480 (ish) OK I would say
FWIW, mine's being held back by something that I have never managed to pin down though as spool is not as good as I think it should be and I feel there should be more torque there at that boost...so I might have to dig deep and go Syvecs and then try and run with 10% meth as well
and as Martyn in liaison with Ecutek couldn't sort it, it must be fairly major.Hope you sort yours soon - must be incredibly frustrating
Last edited by StanS; 07 August 2010 at 04:12 PM.
12 August 2010, 08:41 PM
#594
Scooby Regular
If anybody is interested in hearing more about the Litchfield Twin Entry turbos, then be advised to subscribe to this project thread.
https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...ml#post9544258
DEFCON 1 has just been enabled, which means we don't have long until DEFCON 5 is on the cards!
https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...ml#post9544258
DEFCON 1 has just been enabled, which means we don't have long until DEFCON 5 is on the cards!
12 August 2010, 09:26 PM
#595
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Are there any other cars with your turbo that you can compare with? Whats the best spool they achieve? sorry if this has been covered before, I haven't read the whole thread
22 August 2010, 12:00 PM
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29 August 2010, 01:47 PM
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hi guys,
just ordered a LM500-L70 from Iain. options : Race Bronze bearing carrier, 76mm Ported Shroud Compressor Cover, SFS 76mm Turbo intake Hose.
it is for my GC8 22b widebody (4 doors). roll cage (12points). 2 Recaro Pole-po. PSS9. 6pots/355 front brakes, rear STI7 brembo / dba. full STI7 jdm gearbox, rear transmi. OZ magnesium wheels (8*18 ET12) change for Rota P45R or Grid to put bigger tyres (=> 245/35/18)
- EJ257 semi-closed, OE crank, cosworth tri-metal, cosworth connecting rods, Wossner pistons
- GC8 EJ20 heads, handwork to put safely on an EJ257, polished intake & exhaust chamber, cosworth performance springs
- cometics & ARP
- Spec C oil pan to fit a TS header (ordered a Tomei TS but with what i read i've make a mystake...)
- reverse plenum
- Lateral perf Fmic/cooling combo (very small piping)
- walbro - PE850cc- // rails - AN braided fuel lines and AN hose-ends.
receive it next week if no problem.
give you some news as soon as possible
Aurelien
France
just ordered a LM500-L70 from Iain. options : Race Bronze bearing carrier, 76mm Ported Shroud Compressor Cover, SFS 76mm Turbo intake Hose.
it is for my GC8 22b widebody (4 doors). roll cage (12points). 2 Recaro Pole-po. PSS9. 6pots/355 front brakes, rear STI7 brembo / dba. full STI7 jdm gearbox, rear transmi. OZ magnesium wheels (8*18 ET12) change for Rota P45R or Grid to put bigger tyres (=> 245/35/18)
- EJ257 semi-closed, OE crank, cosworth tri-metal, cosworth connecting rods, Wossner pistons
- GC8 EJ20 heads, handwork to put safely on an EJ257, polished intake & exhaust chamber, cosworth performance springs
- cometics & ARP
- Spec C oil pan to fit a TS header (ordered a Tomei TS but with what i read i've make a mystake...)
- reverse plenum
- Lateral perf Fmic/cooling combo (very small piping)
- walbro - PE850cc- // rails - AN braided fuel lines and AN hose-ends.
receive it next week if no problem.
give you some news as soon as possible
Aurelien
France
Last edited by sound of turbo; 29 August 2010 at 01:59 PM.
29 August 2010, 02:45 PM
#599
hi guys,
just ordered a LM500-L70 from Iain. options : Race Bronze bearing carrier, 76mm Ported Shroud Compressor Cover, SFS 76mm Turbo intake Hose.
it is for my GC8 22b widebody (4 doors). roll cage (12points). 2 Recaro Pole-po. PSS9. 6pots/355 front brakes, rear STI7 brembo / dba. full STI7 jdm gearbox, rear transmi. OZ magnesium wheels (8*18 ET12) change for Rota P45R or Grid to put bigger tyres (=> 245/35/18)
- EJ257 semi-closed, OE crank, cosworth tri-metal, cosworth connecting rods, Wossner pistons
- GC8 EJ20 heads, handwork to put safely on an EJ257, polished intake & exhaust chamber, cosworth performance springs
- cometics & ARP
- Spec C oil pan to fit a TS header (ordered a Tomei TS but with what i read i've make a mystake...)
- reverse plenum
- Lateral perf Fmic/cooling combo (very small piping)
- walbro - PE850cc- // rails - AN braided fuel lines and AN hose-ends.
receive it next week if no problem.
give you some news as soon as possible
Aurelien
France
just ordered a LM500-L70 from Iain. options : Race Bronze bearing carrier, 76mm Ported Shroud Compressor Cover, SFS 76mm Turbo intake Hose.
it is for my GC8 22b widebody (4 doors). roll cage (12points). 2 Recaro Pole-po. PSS9. 6pots/355 front brakes, rear STI7 brembo / dba. full STI7 jdm gearbox, rear transmi. OZ magnesium wheels (8*18 ET12) change for Rota P45R or Grid to put bigger tyres (=> 245/35/18)
- EJ257 semi-closed, OE crank, cosworth tri-metal, cosworth connecting rods, Wossner pistons
- GC8 EJ20 heads, handwork to put safely on an EJ257, polished intake & exhaust chamber, cosworth performance springs
- cometics & ARP
- Spec C oil pan to fit a TS header (ordered a Tomei TS but with what i read i've make a mystake...)
- reverse plenum
- Lateral perf Fmic/cooling combo (very small piping)
- walbro - PE850cc- // rails - AN braided fuel lines and AN hose-ends.
receive it next week if no problem.
give you some news as soon as possible
Aurelien
France
There are two types of Tomei headers - the original and most common ones, designed for EJ20; and a newer design, now using the same pipe diameters as the OE twinscroll headers, much better for an EJ257 in my opinion.
I used the EJ20-style ones on my 2.5 and it definitely didn't spool as well, and knocked top end power, compared to the OEMs that I eventually went back to. In my case an expensive mistake as I'd had the Tomei ones ceramic coated as well
Can't wait to see what results you get