Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

I think 3 maps is a bit unnecessary

the solaris has several.. and i am sure if you wanted more than 2 then the simtek could be altered to incorporate it but really 2 is ample.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

they are but they are slightly different contents.. the tesco has bioethonal within slightly already I believe and is created from a 95ron fuel and built up to 99ron with adictives.. I don't think shell 99 is built from a 95ron..

generally the shell99 is a better base to add octane to.. it is also more consistent.. I think the contents of tesco99 changes between winter and summer.. differring ethonal amounts..

all imho

Simon

Shaun

Simon,
It may be unnecessary to you, but it will not be unnecessary to me!

Care to explain why it is unnecessary?

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

just seems excessive to keep switching fuels between more than 2.. difficult to be sure a tank is what it should be if you switch that much etc

toger13

the only been able to fill 1 jerry can of petrol is a load of rubish that petrol stations have made up lol

we have a boat and got told this and that we had to go to the local councel to get a fuel carrying licence so we went and they toldus it was just a think that some of the fuel stations have made up

next time we we went and did it again we told them it was aload of rubish and they agreed it was somthing head office had made up lol

any way back on topic i havent read it all but it looks like some good agins from it in both power and pocket

Si

Shaun

If you have a requirement and you have the facilities, then why not make the most of them. There was more than one single reason why I chose this ECU. I do not want to run a hybrid fuel like BIO or Race Fuel for anything other than a special event (i.e. Drag Racing). Having it selectable means it is all set-up for me to go and I do not have to see my mapper again for fuel changes. I have the power! It is still important for me to have a normal Super map as well (I have used that on a number of occasions, when a VPower outlet is not available upon my travels).

The "sure a tank is what it should be" is not a problem imo. It is the same procedure whether you switch between two, three or whatever number of fuel maps you run.

Anyway.... I would rather use one of my ECU's selectable inputs for another fuel type than Anti-Lag. Now that is pointless and will soon be swapped for another change in fuel map switch, as it will be used more often and to better affect in my case!!

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

If the ecu will do it why not

I dont have that luxury unfortunately and have a range of maps that I have done for the various fuel mixes from straight SUL through to 40% E85 so far. Only takes a minute or two to reflash with the appropriate map.

4wheel

iTrader: (2)

maybe a silly question but here goes, iam running a 95 wrx import with a scooby ecu chip, would it benefit me to mix a percentage of bio in with my tesco 99 to help as a sort of octane booster ? if yes would it add performance and/or make the car less resistant to the dreaded det

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

You should be fine with a small amount in there as an octane booster (around 5%)

Do you have a knocklink and/or wideband ?

4wheel

iTrader: (2)

i have a knocklink

Shaun

Duncan,
Do you wait until the light comes on and then bang approx. 20ltrs in for your 40% mix then (I suspect that is what I would do as my tank is only 50ltrs)? What was the difference between 20% & 40% (I'm sure you may of stated elsewhere, but I can't be arsed to search lol).

Do you know what % you can run that would not require changes in the mapping, for a margin that you could be under or over on the mix? I presume this would have something to do with how close the map is to det for the fuel mix used at that time.

Stupid question..... but what happens if I have my mix in and then get back down to the light coming on and I need to stick some more BIO mix in. If I put another 20% in, then the total BIO content will be higher. If I did it a third time, it would be increased again.

Perhaps I am being a bit ****, but this is one of my perceived problems running other fuel mixs but not exclusively.

Obviously I do not want it to run lean, whether on the BIO mix or when I change back to my VPower map.

Perhaps I am over complicating it.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

My own set up is peculiar as I do not run closed loop fueling at all so it is overly sensitive to having the right mix in it as it has no fuel trim to correct it. This suits me though at the moment whilst the bank of knowledge/experience is built up.

A small % is fine as an octane booster but it depends on the mapping on the car. I would have thought yours would respond very nicely to it.

20 -> 40% wasnt a huge difference at the top end - about another degree or so of timing up top (for me) but there were much larger gains to be had mid range with more timing where it was more limited by knock. (mixture was leaned out more on the 40% mix though in the mapping)

As long as you are close ish on the mix and have a closed loop system that will carry fuel learning into open loop (i think hydra has that doesnt it?) - all should be well but to get the best from it - it needs close mapping.

4wheel

iTrader: (2)

so even on a non mappable ecu or chipped one a 5% to 10% mix would help prevent the risk of det ?

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Just thinking about this again, if E85 is 85% bio with 15% petrol (presumably (NUL..?) wouldn't it be as better to purchase 100% bio (say Jenney chem) and mix that accordingly with straight v-power..?


Achieving the same mixture as E85 would work out at something like 4.25ltrs of 100% bio-ethanol to 45.75ltrs of v-power. It would be easier to just stick 5ltrs of 100% bio to 45ltrs of v-power resulting in a slightly higher concentration of bio compared to 10% E85..?

Would probably be easier than going to to two petrol stations, but maybe more expensive. Until E85 is more widely available, this could be a solution.

Just a thought..

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Nice and straightforward then Greenergy deliver it if you cant get it locally. But keep asking local Morrisons and maybe they will start to get the message.

4wheel - huge disclaimers apply (ie dont blame me if your car goes bang ) but 5% should be fine for any car as a free octane booster. But - get at least 10% in for some great power improvements with mapping.

4wheel

iTrader: (2)

understand exactly what your saying,thanks for the info,will be trying it and will keep an careful eye on the knocklink, will be interesting when i put it on a rolling road again i will see if it makes any difference to bhp/lbs and/or delivery.

silent running

Well I'd not bothered with this thread until now and thought I'd look in...hmmm! At last living in the furthest reaches of East Anglia is an advantage, as I can go and get E85 from my local Morrisons in Lowestoft. So let me get this straight:
What are the fuel economy implications of running say 20% E85, 80 % petrol?
How much extra power torque might I eke out of a built 2.0 with STi4 heads running a 16G and all supporting mods?
Can I run dual boost levels on my Power FC so if I ever run out of E85 or need to run the tank down for some reason I can switch to low boost with no problems?
Which is the best cost/performance point - 20% or 10%?
Are there any mods required to the car apart from the remap e.g. fuel lines, injectors etc?
Is there any point paying top dollar for V-Power, or even Tesco99 as the base fuel? Why not just stick in Morrisons unleaded and Morrisons E85?

I'll have my engine built and running in very soon then it will need a remap at Zen once I switch over to proper oil so if I can pull over 350bhp out of my trusty 16G I will be very pleased.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

20% worked wonders on mine and I have not noticed enough difference in MPG (if any) to reduce the cost effectiveness of this.

East Anglia seems to be very well served for it - about time we had an advantage

If you map for 20% e85 and 80% morrisons 95ron I am sure you will get great results and an uber economical car too. Chat to Paul on the power side of things, they got great figures out of Sam's 16G scooby on E85.

If you are running 20% after being mapped for it and have to run normal fuel for a while, you will just be running about 7% richer than optimum, it may work ok with this (even on boost) but chat to your mapper to be safe.

wrighty338

iTrader: (33)

could you run a normal

80% normal unleaded (not super) and 20% E85 and see the same increase, or is that that a daft question? iv only ever run mine on v-power.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I dont think you would see quite the same increase but it would certainly be better than vpower alone.

silent running

So basically it's a no brainer then and if I can get E85 easily, I should. Does the price of E85 track the price of normal unleaded then? I should have looked earlier today, I was passing Morrisons. But round this way unleaded is 87.9 at the moment, what's E85 at?

And is a 20% E85 mix going to do any long term corrosion in the fuel system? That works out at 17% bioethanol/83% petrol?

Andy916

iTrader: (8)

Dunc - do you mean better results on your car? Curious to know what sort of differences, if so. Wouldn't it be true to say that you've done more experimenting on E85 than on methanol though?

Am more than happy to add my voice to attempts to see E85 more widely available, but Morrisons is a northern-biased supermarket and there just isn't one close to me. It'll take a lot more than just Morrisons' effort to make the stuff widely available.

Andy

wrighty338

iTrader: (33)

i think its been mentioned already, doesnt damage the fuel system..

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Yes, E85 tracks petrol price wise.

Andy - There is a Morrisons in Cambourne - they just dont stock E85 yet.

I did a lot of experiments on methanol on my car but because the calorific values of methanol are vastly different to petrol it isnt really possible to run this kind of mixture. I have got much better results from E85 plus I feel a lot more comfortable using it and buying it from a safety point of view and being able to get it from the pump is ideal.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

I got my car back from Zen yesterday after having an 18g turbo fitted and mapping for 10% E85.
The high boost map is not complete yet because the car needed a Walbro fuel pump (which I thought it already had) and was running lean at high RPM. The pump has been fitted but mapping won't be finished until next week.
However I do have safe boost available to 1.4 bar and first impressions are really good.
Although the effects of the E85 are masked by the addition of the turbo, the character of the engine has changed quite markedly, even my other half noticed the difference from the passenger seat. It's obviously producing more punch, but it's much smoother delivery. Just driving at normal town speed the engine is more flexible and requires fewer gear changes at low rpm, and when you open the taps there comes a huge rush of torque from around 2900 which doesn't show any signs of running out until the shift light blinks at 6800. This has been set conservatively as it would be really easy to run the nuts off it at every gear change.

Big thanks to Paul and the lads at Zen for a great result, and I'm looking forward to the finished map.

One point Paul made was that Tesco 99 contains a percentage of E85, so adding 10% E85 to a tank full of 99 actually raises the 85 content slightly, and conversly switching to V power would effectivel lower the 85 content. I'm not sure if this point has been covered on this thread (my apologies if it has) and it may not have huge consequences, but it's something that E85 novices like myself need to be aware of.

Now, I need another excuse to go out in the scoob.

silent running

It will be very interesting to see what you finally get out of your 18G. IIRC Tesco 99 is 5% bioethanol already so yes tht would change the percentage...

If 20% E85 gives you 17% bioethanol, then Tesco99 5% out of that 80% = 4% extra, with that T99/E85 mix you're running 21% bioethanol overall. So actually that does seem a substantial difference.

I've just been down to the Lowestoft Morrisons and they said they haven't had any E85 for ages, their tank was drained and the nearest ones that have it are now Norwich and Ipswich. It didn't sell at all apparently and the price always tracked unleaded at 2p/l less.

Looks like this idea might be a non starter for me unless I start buying it 50 litres at a time from Norwich and bringing it home in gerry cans.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Shame about Lowestoft... perhaps I should have started this thread sooner.

There is Diss aswell near you and Dereham - both have it the last time I went.

silent running

...Well 'near' is a relative term round these parts - Diss is 3/4 hour away, Dereham at least an hour - and that's without getting stuck behind tractors LOL

I am thinking seriously about stocking up at Norwich 50 litres at a time. I'm up there at least once a fortnight so it wouldn't be a major hassle, just that I'd rather not carry or store big drums of fuel if I can help it. My plan would have been to just go to my local Morrisons 10 minutes drive away when the car was on empty, stick in 10 litres of E85 then 40 litres of unleaded and drive away. After paying of course.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

[quote=silent running;8346542]It will be very interesting to see what you finally get out of your 18G. IIRC Tesco 99 is 5% bioethanol already so yes tht would change the percentage...quote]

The car is due for final mapping next Friday. Although I don't place any real value on dyno figures, I believe Paul is going to do one power run as the car has been mapped on his Dastek cell before, so this will provide a like-for-like comparison. It's all a bit academic what the dyno says, but as things stand at the moment I'm very happy with the result, and final mapping should only improve things, albeit only at the top end.
I'll post the results when I have them.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

2 jerry cans is enough for 4 tank fulls of fuel.

I fill 2 up at a go and lasts plenty long enough for me. (although having said that I have run out at the moment )