wrighty338

iTrader: (33)

reading this i think i will deffo be goin for mapping running a % of e85

silent running

We're talking proper 20l cans, not the little 5 litre plastic ones?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

yup - proper man sized jerry cans

20 litres in one means that 2 tanks full at 20% mix. (10 litre e85 / 40 litres vpower)

If you ran at 10% mix then 1 jerry cans would be enough for 4 tanks full of fuel. (5 / 45)

silent running

Right, I'm convinced. I can get it and store it easily enough. Now I have tried following the thread but I'm still muddled over getting exactly the right mix.

On my MY98 classic I thought I had a 60 litre tank. I've never run out of fuel but plenty of times I've driven a long way with the light on and Im sure after one of these drives, a fill up has been over 50 litres? I'm just thinking that if I stick 10 litres of BE in and fill up with unleaded every time the light comes on it's not exactly very accurate is it? Surely the mix percentages will drift one way or the other at each fill up depending on how low the tank is exactly. Unless you premix it yourself at home but i don't fancy that.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

As I have said above I put 10 litres of E85 then put 40 litres of Vpower in - that gets it almost full from the yellow light being on.

A couple of litres of vpower either way isnt really going to kill it as any decent mapper will put a degree of safety margin in the maps.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Alternatively, could you not put 11.5 litres of E85 to 40 ltres of fuel in? This is working on the assumption that when the light comes on, you're unlikely to have more than 5 litres of fuel still in the tank - so 40 (+ 5) litres of fuel + 11.5 litres E85, will still maintain at least 20% of E85?

That's assuming a JDM 60 litre tank to get the 56.5 litres total in. If you have a UK 50 litre tank then the amounts would have to be circa 32 (+ 5) fuel + 9.5 E85 = 46.5 total to fit in.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

No - because the mixture in there will already be at a 20% mixture.

You are complicating it far too much - it isnt hard....

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Of course.

I was just thinking of a way to address silent running's concern from a total failsafe pov, that's all.

But I suppose this point...

...addresses it, anyhow.

silent running

Yes I can see I'm getting a bit **** here. But I'm thinking along the lines of extracting the maximum financial advantage here as well and getting out from under the yoke of Shell V-Power. As that will be 4 points lower than V-Power and be 80% of the tank that will make an appreciable difference. I think it says somewhere that E85 is what, 104 RON? So in other words, normal unleaded is twice as far away from it as V-Power is.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Yes, you are getting **** - It all depends on what you map the car with.

You could map on 95 ron + e85 mix and get good results.
You could map on 99 ron + e85 mix and get great results.

It's up to you.

Forget the octane rating of E85 though - I know you are thinking that a 20% mix of e85 onto a 95 ron base will only give 96.8 octane - this is wrong - it behaves very differently to that in reality. Just try it - you will be amazed.

silent running

OR...how about this. I know my tank is 60 litres when full, regardless of when the light comes on. I always brim the tank anyway, so I can work out my mpg. So let's say I ran it down almost empty, put in 10 litres of E85 then brim it with unleaded. I know it's gonna have a max of 16.7% E85 in there.

Next time I go along and I decide to fill it up before the light comes on, say there's 10 litres of mix in there still. I put in another 10 litres of E85, it takes another 40 litres of unleaded, I end up with a slightly 'stronger' E85 mix. Let's say another time I run it down past the light and put 10 litres in I'll end up with an E85 stronger than my original 16.7% but not much.

So if I've got this right, as long as I only fill up when the tank's almost empty whether before the light of after it, I'm only ever gonna get a greater percentage of E85 in there rather than less. Meaning no det problems.

Someone confirm whether I'm thinking that out right!?!?

silent running

[quote=dynamix;8347677]Yes, you are getting **** - It all depends on what you map the car with.

You could map on 95 ron + e85 mix and get good results.
You could map on 99 ron + e85 mix and get great results.

It's up to you.

Forget the octane rating of E85 though - I know you are thinking that a 20% mix of e85 onto a 95 ron base will only give 96.8 octane - this is wrong - it behaves very differently to that in reality. Just try it - you will be amazed.[/quote
Will do. As long as you're happy with how it's working for you, I'll do the same.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Just put 10 ltrs of E85 and 40 litres of vpower in. Job done. There is no need to overcomplicate this.

16.7% or 20% really isnt a big deal - it depends on how much leeway the mapper gives on the map. Speak to your mapper.

P555SBR

iTrader: (1)

dont mean to sound stupid but would this be worth runing in my car its a 96 wrx import will have a fmic 550cc injectors td05 16g full decat when get it remapped but its still on standard internals i like the sound of it but just carnt deside what to do

any help will be greatfully recived thanks dave
p.s if so what % would you recomend

Andy916

iTrader: (8)

Are methanol and ethanol really that different in calorific value? Graham Bell (4 stroke performance tuning book) lists methanol at 9.8 kBtu/lb heat energy and ethanol at 12.5, both of which are much lower than petrol at 19 kBtu/lb.

Andy

Shaun

After speaking to Richard Bulmer today, I have decided to give E85 a punt. I picked up 20ltrs tonight from Morrisons on the way home, and I was slightly surprised to only pay 86p a Litre. I can't remember how long ago fuel only cost me that!

I am not sure what mix to go for at present, whether to go for 20%, 40% or 80%. I have plenty of headroom on injectors, so will probably have another chat with Richard (I need to see how much fuel he thinks he will need to do the map in the first instance as I can only carry so much E85 to take to him lol). I may need to take another trip to Morrisons tomorrow to get some more in any case.

It looks like mapping day will be this Saturday (fingers crossed), so after the VPower map has been redone first (which I am initially interested in) Tracktive will be mapping the car for E85. I can't have Duncan using up all the bragging rights!

I will be interested in seeing what comes to light, and I will let you guys know how we get on.

mit

iTrader: (10)

That would be good to see!
I spoke to David at Api monday, and discussed the E85 route. He will hopefully be mapping mine, with Pat in january after fitting a new clutch. He advised that with the 20% mix i'd be looking at 'about' 10% power increase. Thats 33bhp! Im fitting 550's to replace the 440's too, so will be interesting to see how much power i'll get. If i get 360bhp i'll be well happy!

Mit

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Shaun - I think 20% is the magic number for my set up - yours should be similar. Much beyond that is deminishing returns for the hassle factor of carrying jerry cans.

Would love to see what yours does on that.

ps - dont you just love the smell of it ?

Shaun

I was just re-reading back some of your initials posts and you are perhaps right on the mix bit.

Yeah.... it smells like boiled turnips! I got a bit excited at the pumps and shot a load all over my shoes!

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Duncan,
what's the minimum percentage of E85 you would need to run to notice a difference? I'm not looking to run a minimum quantity, just curious.
My car is being mapped tomorrow at 10% BE, so I can increase the level if necessary.
Steve.

G.Mac

iTrader: (2)

As a past user of methanol I'm looking forward to trying E85, infact I will be getting mapped on to it on Tuesday, I was origionaly thinking of a 20% mix of E85 but now im thinking of 50 / 50 just for the ease of measuring it out, I've got 800cc injectors so should be ok.
will let you know how I get on

Graeme

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Blue by You - difficult to say without seeing the map for you car tbh but as little as 5% would have an effect, 10% good, 20% great..... 40% is/was superb but it is hassle because of fuel ranges, injector sizing in my case for 550 ish bhp.

I cant go any further than 40% at the moment due to injector sizing and ecu limitations but as soon as on a proper ecu (prob Solaris) and either bigger injectors or a 5th Injector I will take it further.

Graeme - will be interested to see how you get on. 20% as I said above seems to be the magic number but if you can swap/change 20% & 50% easy enough then go for it.

Shaun - pmsl at the shoe moment

Andy916

iTrader: (8)

How much more at 20% than at 10% Duncan?

Am considering 10% for mine, since it's a more convenient amount (5L) to carry in the car and the nearest supply is 1.5hrs away.

Andy

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Andy - it doesnt take 90 mins to get to Wellingborough !!

No idea - i havent dyno'd at 10% but I know it was more at 20% because of the extra timing that it took.

Andy916

iTrader: (8)

Ok Dunc, on a perfect run it's 60mins to Zen from here (other side of Cambridge) ... plus anything up to 60mins on top for traffic on the flippin' A14!

Might get a few 10L cans (something like these FUEL CANS Accessories/Lubricants Buy UK) for convenient metering and storage in the boot, either strapped in place or in spare wheel well. Don't want to be carrying a tall 20L jerry can in the rear footwell of the car everywhere I go!

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Ipwich is less than an hour the other way too

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Further to my earlier post (#205) my car had the final map done by Zen today.
The dyno graph shows 350 engine bhp at 1.2bar, but only rises to 360 at 1.7 bar, with 350ft/lbs.
Looking purely at the dyno numbers, I have to say I'm a little disappointed. That's no disrespect to Paul, but I was hoping for something nearer 380bhp. At the end of the day, the combination of modifications I have chosen has produced that result and it is what it is.

However I've said all along that I would be more interested in how the car feels on the road, and I have to say it feels bloody excellent. The car pulls very strongly in the mid range, and doesn't really show any signs of running out of puff up to 7000rpm.

The new turbo hits 1 bar at about 2900rpm, with maximum torque at 3700rpm.

I only live about 6 miles from Zen, and I managed to use a quarter of a tank of fuel getting home (with a couple of small detours)

DaveBeck

iTrader: (12)

Nice thread.

Been pondering over the idea now of meth for a while then saw this thread.

would you believe that my local store stocks E85 . Needing a tweak on the map so might aswell spend few more pennies and get more power.

Simon will be mapping the car so will post up results once done on 22nd

silent running

Well I have my twin 25l cans ready now, just got to get the engine finished and run in, then start mapping for 20% E85. Just FYI everyone, I went up to the Norwich Morrisons to check things out and their rule is they let you fill up one large jerry can or two of the little 5l ones. If I want two large cans which will work out at 50 litres all told, all I have to do is fill one, drive round and then fill another. 1 can per visit in other words. But of course, if my jerry cans were difficult to see, I could easily fill two at the same time one after the other, and sling them in the boot. And top up my petrol tank with 10 litres as well!

silent running

OK one more question. Is there any restriction on carrying bioethanol around from one country to another? I'm thinking of possible problems at Dover/Dunkerque passport control or customs when I go for my annual 'Ring trip. How available is E85 on the continent? I'm guessing 'not at all' meaning I'll need to bring at least 50 litres with me for a long weekend in Germany.