JGM VS SCOOBY CLINIC
02 November 2008, 01:21 PM
#91
Scoobyclinic did mine when I had the sti and they spent about 30 mins with it on the rollers then probably took it out and parked up, had a smoke then brought it back, some ginger kid mapped it, don't think it was Pat tbh but still, you live and learn, and I know what i learned.
That ginger kid couldn`t even find reverse on my car. Cowboys.
02 November 2008, 02:16 PM
#92
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03 November 2008, 09:03 AM
#94
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I think calling SC cowboys is uncalled for. OK... so you had some issues, but that does not constitute calling them that! 
apalmer,
Certainly no offence taken mate...... just a good honest debate. Exactly what this community is all about!
apalmer,
Certainly no offence taken mate...... just a good honest debate. Exactly what this community is all about!
03 November 2008, 09:43 AM
#95
I map mine on the road but believe me it is scarey stuff doing this with 550 bhp on public roads and becomes harder to get meaningful datalogs as stuff happens very quickly. It is also virtually impossible to get to replicate track conditions where a sustained 5th gear run would produce different results to a 3rd gear run. Up to say 350bhp it is easier as the data logs show more of what is going on.
Dynos make it easier to pin-point dips in power and from my time on the dyno recently it has improved my map by being able to see these translate directly into power on the screen.
I know Simon maps on the road, he did a great job with mine earlier this year when he helped me out of a huge hole. But, he will also use dyno's where appropriate (as all good tuners would)
03 November 2008, 10:13 AM
#97
Road mapping versus Dyno mapping is a very very old argument and is not one that can be answered.
I map mine on the road but believe me it is scarey stuff doing this with 550 bhp on public roads and becomes harder to get meaningful datalogs as stuff happens very quickly. It is also virtually impossible to get to replicate track conditions where a sustained 5th gear run would produce different results to a 3rd gear run. Up to say 350bhp it is easier as the data logs show more of what is going on.
Dynos make it easier to pin-point dips in power and from my time on the dyno recently it has improved my map by being able to see these translate directly into power on the screen.
I know Simon maps on the road, he did a great job with mine earlier this year when he helped me out of a huge hole. But, he will also use dyno's where appropriate (as all good tuners would)
I map mine on the road but believe me it is scarey stuff doing this with 550 bhp on public roads and becomes harder to get meaningful datalogs as stuff happens very quickly. It is also virtually impossible to get to replicate track conditions where a sustained 5th gear run would produce different results to a 3rd gear run. Up to say 350bhp it is easier as the data logs show more of what is going on.
Dynos make it easier to pin-point dips in power and from my time on the dyno recently it has improved my map by being able to see these translate directly into power on the screen.
I know Simon maps on the road, he did a great job with mine earlier this year when he helped me out of a huge hole. But, he will also use dyno's where appropriate (as all good tuners would)
I know some nice good long smooth as babys but roads, this will help i hope.
03 November 2008, 10:43 AM
#98
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Glad i started to read this,
Am looking for my 1st remap along with supporting mods, been speaking to andy F, and am very happy with his response of what i want,
Might have to pop a email to JGM and see what he says,
Am looking for my 1st remap along with supporting mods, been speaking to andy F, and am very happy with his response of what i want,
Might have to pop a email to JGM and see what he says,
06 November 2008, 08:25 PM
#106
He set out very early this morning to get to us and so far has mapped 4 cars he is still out now mapping the 5th.Totally transformed my RA as he did with the other cars, i would recommend him to anyone and no doubt would the other guys whos cars he mapped.
Whilst out mapping he's happy to answer any questions you may have and i had quite a few..
Id say my Map took about an hour'n'half from start to finish and of course we stuck to all speed limits
I cant comment on any other mapper as this is the first time ive had a car remapped but i can say if you chose to use JGM then you are in safe hands..
07 November 2008, 03:48 PM
#107
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i'll admit i don't know about mapping like some people on this thread do, but from a work done point of view i imagine mapping on the road allows people to do far more cars than using a rolling road would, what do you actually need to map on the road? the hardware to plug into the car? (and the know how of course) Seems like this is a lot cheaper and less complex than owning/ hiring/ maintaining a rolling road.
So it would make sense to suggest to customers that there isn't much odds between rolling road mapping, and on road mapping, and that you get better undefinable driving performance by mapping on the road.
So it would make sense to suggest to customers that there isn't much odds between rolling road mapping, and on road mapping, and that you get better undefinable driving performance by mapping on the road.
07 November 2008, 04:38 PM
#108
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10 November 2008, 01:30 PM
#109
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Just to throw one in the mix mate, I have started to organise a session for a few cars with Bob Rawle in Sheffield. Looking at a weekend next Feb/ Mar. Check out the Sheffieldscoobys website if you are interested!
10 November 2008, 04:21 PM
#110
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just one point when a car is totaly mapped on the road whoever the mapper and no matter how good he is you wont get a dyno sheet so any hp claims will just be a gustimate,
with a big hp car how do you map that on the road and stay legal anyone who has been in a realy big hp car will know that using a lap top on a public road with a mid/high 400 hp car whils on full boost would be impossible or irresponsible,
that has to be mapped on a RR then taken out for a tweek to make drivable,
cant see another way but maybe someone here knows of one???
with a big hp car how do you map that on the road and stay legal anyone who has been in a realy big hp car will know that using a lap top on a public road with a mid/high 400 hp car whils on full boost would be impossible or irresponsible,
that has to be mapped on a RR then taken out for a tweek to make drivable,
cant see another way but maybe someone here knows of one???
13 November 2008, 12:07 AM
#111
Very impressed with Sir JGM, mapped my car really nice - even tho he had a few other cars to map he took his time and perfected it, very helpful indeed and very knowledgable, will defo be using this professional guy again
Well done JGM...
Well done JGM...
13 November 2008, 11:30 AM
#113
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just one point when a car is totaly mapped on the road whoever the mapper and no matter how good he is you wont get a dyno sheet so any hp claims will just be a gustimate,
with a big hp car how do you map that on the road and stay legal anyone who has been in a realy big hp car will know that using a lap top on a public road with a mid/high 400 hp car whils on full boost would be impossible or irresponsible,
that has to be mapped on a RR then taken out for a tweek to make drivable,
cant see another way but maybe someone here knows of one???
with a big hp car how do you map that on the road and stay legal anyone who has been in a realy big hp car will know that using a lap top on a public road with a mid/high 400 hp car whils on full boost would be impossible or irresponsible,
that has to be mapped on a RR then taken out for a tweek to make drivable,
cant see another way but maybe someone here knows of one???
As I would hope the mapper is in the passenger seat whilst tweaking rather than driving with the laptop draped over the steering wheel, I would think his biggest fear is car-sickness (provided he is a good judge of character when weighing you up as his driver, and you aren't some psychopath with a deathwish).
Logic would dictate that apalmer (and you) is fundamentally correct, and the ideal way to map a car is first on a RR and then finally on a real road to make sure it's 'right' to drive.
My car is probably only a measly 300ishBHP so I'm happy to skip the RR part as the gains are likely to be limited and engine damage whilst mapping should not be an issue. I would think 350BHP and upwards (on a classic at any rate) would get me on a RR first, and anyone running 400+ must be crazy not to get it on a RR first as poor fuelling/ignition at that state of tune could be game over.
I've had my bike mapped on the dyno (for obvious reasons) and the AFR is the desired 14:1 but on the road this does show up as slightly uneven at certain revs/throttle openings. Ah well, what can you do?
Kevin
13 November 2008, 06:45 PM
#114
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Who exactly is it that buys these cars to be legal anyway, I'd be surprised if I've ever been out in it and not broken the law at least once each time.
As I would hope the mapper is in the passenger seat whilst tweaking rather than driving with the laptop draped over the steering wheel, I would think his biggest fear is car-sickness (provided he is a good judge of character when weighing you up as his driver, and you aren't some psychopath with a deathwish).
Logic would dictate that apalmer (and you) is fundamentally correct, and the ideal way to map a car is first on a RR and then finally on a real road to make sure it's 'right' to drive.
My car is probably only a measly 300ishBHP so I'm happy to skip the RR part as the gains are likely to be limited and engine damage whilst mapping should not be an issue. I would think 350BHP and upwards (on a classic at any rate) would get me on a RR first, and anyone running 400+ must be crazy not to get it on a RR first as poor fuelling/ignition at that state of tune could be game over.
I've had my bike mapped on the dyno (for obvious reasons) and the AFR is the desired 14:1 but on the road this does show up as slightly uneven at certain revs/throttle openings. Ah well, what can you do?
Kevin
As I would hope the mapper is in the passenger seat whilst tweaking rather than driving with the laptop draped over the steering wheel, I would think his biggest fear is car-sickness (provided he is a good judge of character when weighing you up as his driver, and you aren't some psychopath with a deathwish).
Logic would dictate that apalmer (and you) is fundamentally correct, and the ideal way to map a car is first on a RR and then finally on a real road to make sure it's 'right' to drive.
My car is probably only a measly 300ishBHP so I'm happy to skip the RR part as the gains are likely to be limited and engine damage whilst mapping should not be an issue. I would think 350BHP and upwards (on a classic at any rate) would get me on a RR first, and anyone running 400+ must be crazy not to get it on a RR first as poor fuelling/ignition at that state of tune could be game over.
I've had my bike mapped on the dyno (for obvious reasons) and the AFR is the desired 14:1 but on the road this does show up as slightly uneven at certain revs/throttle openings. Ah well, what can you do?
Kevin
in my origional text replace "stay legal" with "stay Safe"
14 November 2008, 12:22 PM
#117
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Pat maps for us at APi, as does Bob Rawle on certain cars and I am happy to use either as they both have excellent experience on mapping and their input when things get tricky and the odd glitch comes up is well worth having.
We map on the road as l am very conscious of driveability. I was trained on a rolling road more years ago than I care to mention on here and for certain jobs they are necessary.
If you want the " numbers game," then a set of rollers every time. There is more than one occasion that has happened to me, and every other mapper I suspect, where a car has been described as " awesome and the fastest thing on earth " and then been condemned as rubbish because it didn't reach a number on the rollers that the owner was expecting. " But how does it drive?" is always the response.
As for the " ginger kid " at the Clinic he is actually about 27, or something, he is one of those that just looks a lot younger than he is. AND I seriously doubt whether any mapper /tuner would take the car out and park up for a ***, whilst pretending to be working - we are all too busy for that to happen. And for Pat to stop and eat would take a lot more than 30 minutes ....
It seems to me that any mention on here of the Clinic lately, seems to become a witch hunt. All of us have our " moments " when things go bad and we all try to get things back on line the best way possible. However the statement that you " cannot please all of the people all of the time" is never truer.
As for tuners and mappers - go with who you are most comfortable with in terms of personal feeling. I.E. Who gives you the most confidence on the phone, that understands where you want to be.
Bob rarely maps on rollers, JGM rarely maps on rollers Horses for courses.
David APi
We map on the road as l am very conscious of driveability. I was trained on a rolling road more years ago than I care to mention on here and for certain jobs they are necessary.
If you want the " numbers game," then a set of rollers every time. There is more than one occasion that has happened to me, and every other mapper I suspect, where a car has been described as " awesome and the fastest thing on earth " and then been condemned as rubbish because it didn't reach a number on the rollers that the owner was expecting. " But how does it drive?" is always the response.
As for the " ginger kid " at the Clinic he is actually about 27, or something, he is one of those that just looks a lot younger than he is. AND I seriously doubt whether any mapper /tuner would take the car out and park up for a ***, whilst pretending to be working - we are all too busy for that to happen. And for Pat to stop and eat would take a lot more than 30 minutes ....
It seems to me that any mention on here of the Clinic lately, seems to become a witch hunt. All of us have our " moments " when things go bad and we all try to get things back on line the best way possible. However the statement that you " cannot please all of the people all of the time" is never truer.
As for tuners and mappers - go with who you are most comfortable with in terms of personal feeling. I.E. Who gives you the most confidence on the phone, that understands where you want to be.
Bob rarely maps on rollers, JGM rarely maps on rollers Horses for courses.
David APi
14 November 2008, 01:13 PM
#118
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Performance figures!
Peak bhp etc for bragging. Estimates vary significantly between different RR set ups.
Its what happens when the rubber hits the road that counts! You don't drive the car on a dyno.
Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 14 November 2008 at 01:18 PM.
17 November 2008, 01:43 AM
#120
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