Tidgy

if pats mapping it he will be advising on stuff aka work if it needs doing, so y, even if clinics advise was bad, but you say pats is good, would you be getting bad advice?

knowing pat he wouldn't have anything to do with a dodgy company, kinda says it all realy.

StickyMicky

my mates car was recovered to them because it would not start and was told his apexi ecu was corrupt.................


he ended up paying a ****load of money for some work, including an autronic ecu and full mapping session.........

his "corrupt" apexi ecu ran my car, and is now living in another sti after it was sold on to one of the mappers from this forum

to be honest, i seriously doubt he knows anything, he will be told what needs mapped and he will map it, its not his business after all. i cant fault him, i have never delt with him but dont doubt his skills one tiny little bit, he has even helped me learn how to map myself (as did JGM tbh) but i would suggest booking him via API if he uses both IMHO



this is not an isolated incident, now can you understand why some (and what seams to be increasing numbers of )people are wary of using the clinic?


pointless saying things like "ohh well i was fine so they must be ok"

things like the RCM thread on MLR have shown people the kinds of things that go on behind closed doors, and now people seam a lot more open to speak about such matters IMO

i know of another "well respected" tuner that frequents this forum that runs things absolutley gash (and have countless mates to back up the gashness), infact i have spend a sizeable small fortune with them including an engine rebuild that fell apart in a short space of time but you would no doubt get plenty of people on here saying they are class, just because they changed the oil and fitted a set of spark plugs without issue

anyway that is for another thread, and this one is about SC v JGM

gave my reasons why i would choose the jolly chap, up to the SN massive if they listen or not

Tidgy

yeah but in this case sc is Pat

apalmer

iTrader: (8)

Not wishing to start any negativity, but i have personal experience of one and was very dissapointed, the other i have read some very negative stuff about on here and would think twice about using (make of that what you will). Bob Rawle in Swindon did a fantastic job with my car and i was very please with the service.

The only thing i would say is, after taking an mapping course for exactly what your about to pay for, you catergorically CANNOT tune a car for maximum torque on the road, so get yourself some dyno time with whoever you choose.

@

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Here are my two cars both mapped by Simon, on the dyno then on the road:

2 litre



2.5 litre



Graphs speak louder than words

Banny

wiley

iTrader: (63)

simon at JGM is your man, did an amazing remap on my wrx... plus a bit more

wiley

71/200

iTrader: (2)

I wouldnt go near the clinic everything about it is just wrong imo. Bob Rawle never answered any emails, so i did a bit of research and read nothing but good comments on JGM. So i flew the Monster out to Germany to map mine and he did a couple more whilst there! Im now in Northern Ireland and a good mapper is hard to find so im going with what i know, so the Jolly is coming over to map 8 cars in the new year possibly more!
Its not just his mapping skills, he has given me so much free advice on what to do wiring mods and specs to get the car to how i want it.
You have made a wise decision imo mate, im sure you will be delighted when the work is done.
JGM carries out his work with passion!

To Mr Palmer, you must be a hard man to please lol

MarvSTi5

Pat at Scoobyclinic has mapped all of my scoobs for the past 6 years or so and always done a top job - he has shedloads of experience with scoobs and Scoobyclinic have all of the facilities to get the best from your car

D-an-W

iTrader: (1)

Andy Forrest did mine, we stayed local to him so had a couple of days to visit Edinburgh etc. The journey back was awesome too

That however seems to be too far for you, so all I can say is I haven't read a bad word about JGM on here which has to be worth considering...

wrxbart

iTrader: (5)

JGM defo done mine for last 2 years

a16pse

hi guys how much bhp would i get with a remap on my 2006 st with ppp

Shaun

So, since you have the "knowledge" can you please explain (and you can get as technical as you wish) why you can not tune for maximum torque on the road, but you can on a RR?

apalmer

iTrader: (8)

Absolutely.

Simply because you cannot effectively simulate increased engine load while holding steady RPM with using nothing but your foot and tarmac. Without an affective torque reading coming back you, how can you possibly adgust ign advance to find optimum torque. Ever seen "Traktive Effort" on a dyno dynamics system?

From my the various mapping sessions that i have shelled out for, both with guys on here and in a classroom, mapping should be a hybrid of both. Transient fuelling, load and any part of the map for the matter can be calculated, much like anything else using a speed density system and a MAP reference, but there will always be an argument for the incidentals like pulling up a the lights with indicators on and then activating air con etc..

I wait the respones that mention tuning to knock, then retarding using det cans..

scooby1doo1

iTrader: (7)

I would have thought reel time tuning I.E on the road would give you a better map, as your mapping to reel roads and not the rollers. Can a fan blowing in the engine bay simulate the same amount of air at the right time. I would have thought know because it's just 1 speed, and you dont have the right load on the rollers as the road.
Please state why i'm wrong.

Shaun

apalmer,
Whilst your theory may be sound in absolute terms, what is the ACTUAL difference between an optimum ign map on an RR against that done on the road..... in the real world? Classroom theory is one thing, but what is the reality to Joe Soap. I'm sure certain tuners on here, who have proven their worth in "real world" achievements, mapping on the road, would tend to state it makes sod all difference in reality.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

When I arranged to get my PFC mapped by JGM, I was initially concerned about mapping on the road (an unknown quantity for me - freaked out by getting pulled by the coppazz lol) and, therefore, initially wanted to do it on a RR. But JGM eluded to the fact that, yes, he could do it on a RR... BUT... afterwards would have to go out on the highway anyway to optimise/tweak the map anyway. I don't know the scientific reason for this though.

Therefore, needless to say, I just opted for the on-road live map... and loved it!

V5RLTD

iTrader: (5)

Take it to BRD, could have had mine done locally, but drove a 400 mile round trip to be satisfied.

andyswagon

another vote for simon (jgm) here as i have drove cars mapped by sc and by simon and his are far better. just my two penneth!

apalmer

iTrader: (8)

As long as your air path isn't blocked do you really think that a large fan would affect the amount of air the engine can physically induct, would you consider the possibility that the fan provides an element of cooling? An air pump is an air pump, a large fan blowing at the front of the engine bay does not affect the volumetric efficiency of an engine. It will blow what it can blow regardless.

apalmer

iTrader: (8)

Well in real terms, i would pose that question to you, you are joe soap, so do want that money spent for a remap used to tune your car to best it could be, or short of that mark? I believe in the notion that experience tends to count for more than classroom theory, but apples in this case is most definitely apples, an engine works only one way. If extra ftlbs means sod all to you sir then happy days. Happy days

The definition of the two will cost ya £250

@

scooby1doo1

iTrader: (7)

Volumetric efficiency,now thats 2 real nice words!! but no matter what, no fan can replicate and truely deliver the goods compared with a real live map, there are all sorts of live variables to consider from pressure of the day at source to air temp etc, yes granted, if you happen to get all the right perametres right on a certain day at a certain time that eqate the exact same variables that the rolling road produced then yes, the rolling road performance will win, but that set of events are like lottery numbers, so for the average joe, and car, in most normal applications, which most of us run, then its a live map all the way, IMO

scooby1doo1

iTrader: (7)

Description:
V5 JDM 99 in steel grey

Modifications:
Apexi Induction KIT
Walbro 255
Simtek ECU - BRDevelopments
H&S full exhaust system with Vortex
335 Brake conv
Braided lines

Custom dash switches for:
Launch Control
Anti-Lag
Map 2

322/300 or ther abouts!??????????????? their abouts RR give close bhp is that what that means, or did you get a live map.

STI_Baly

iTrader: (23)

Hanbags at 20 Yards again

Shaun

So.... to Joe Soap it means nothing in real world terms then?

I don't suppose the "mapping course" you have just taken was in conjunction with RR training/use was it?

I am neither pro RR or pro Road Mapping, but making statements like you have, you obviously realise that you are suggesting that a car will be better if mapped on a RR. Personally, that it not true from my experience..... and I have had more experience than most Joe Soap's on that one.

The single most BIGGEST reason of the RR vs Road Mapping, has always been down to the key point of safety (cost of RR aside). Have you tried mapping a 500+bhp car at night time on the road?

p1junkie

iTrader: (5)

i think tuning imho on the road should only be used as a tweak
do the majority on the rolling road and then final tweak on the road
lets be honest here how can it possibly be safe to hold a car at 1.8-2bar in say 4th gear while the mapper gains all the info for fuelling/ign timing etc
i know he rolling road adds about an hour to the bill approx 70.00 as most mappers have a deal with the rolling road owner
have to say i was asking simon loads of questions and phoning him and he was exceptionally helpfull and found him a very ameniable guy and would have no hesitation recomending him

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

<Once again...> But which is best: D&G or Gucci? There's only one way to find out!... FIIIIIGHT!!!

apalmer

iTrader: (8)

Just stating the facts as i know them. No offence intended.

Ironic however that the original poster who was looking for mapping advice ended up giving it out instead.

@

JimmyBFC

Si will map your car more or less solely on the road, which IMO is best, its not about pub figure's etc having it on the rollers, but how the car reacts when you want it to, IMO thats why road mapping gets my vote.

Scoobyclinic did mine when I had the sti and they spent about 30 mins with it on the rollers then probably took it out and parked up, had a smoke then brought it back, some ginger kid mapped it, don't think it was Pat tbh but still, you live and learn, and I know what i learned.

fwdnutz

as Banni says defo JGM for me!
also simon has mapped both my cars in the past my old classic fitted with an apexi power fc and new scoob has a gems implant which was already fitted when i bought car, if i had to choose an ecu now would prob go for a simtek but for now the gems will suffice and must add not only did simon map my car but had a great deal of input into what i reqd to get the 450/450 figures i have been running these days along with Mark from lateral performance who supllies the goodies!

scooby1doo1

iTrader: (7)

Was not looking for mapping what is best RR or real time, more or less who is better of the 2 stated. JGM or SC.
If you know it all and you think RR is the better why did you not use RR


322/300 or ther abouts! RR give you BHP not their abouts.