The Great Global Warming Swindle....swindle
28 July 2008, 12:20 PM
#152
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I agree with most of what you say. I cannot go along with your point about being selfish about shortening the planet's existence and letting our descendants "clear up the mess" as you say.
I believe that we do have a real responsibility towards those who follow us and if we were destroying the Earth with our actions then in all honesty we should stop doing that.
I do feel however that the present climate change is indeed cyclical and that we can't change that. I think that we are being taken for a ride by those creeps that you mention and that in reality they don't personally give a stuff for the future of the planet. What I believe we should do however is to take a responsible attitude to how we behave and that we should not over use or waste the resources that we do have.
To use your simile, I would say be satisfied with the 10" Pizza and leave a bit more uncooked so that everyone can have one before the pastry runs out.
Les
I believe that we do have a real responsibility towards those who follow us and if we were destroying the Earth with our actions then in all honesty we should stop doing that.
I do feel however that the present climate change is indeed cyclical and that we can't change that. I think that we are being taken for a ride by those creeps that you mention and that in reality they don't personally give a stuff for the future of the planet. What I believe we should do however is to take a responsible attitude to how we behave and that we should not over use or waste the resources that we do have.
To use your simile, I would say be satisfied with the 10" Pizza and leave a bit more uncooked so that everyone can have one before the pastry runs out.
Les
Yes we can do small things that don't take much effort and don't ruin the "fun" that life can offer such as recycling and not wasting power, but the planet will always outlast humans regardless of what we think.
As someone pointed out the environment and human life will adapt in the future the same way evolution has worked for millions of years and whether I drive my 19mpg Focus ST or my 50mpg Civic Diesel really won't make a blind bit of difference to the future of the planet, so the fact the gov't can tax me so much for my choices is ridicilous.
The human race doesn't need to do anything major to affect the future of the planet, the planet will spew us all off the face of it if it does ever get sick of us
28 July 2008, 01:32 PM
#153
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My underlying point is that we are not doing any long term damage to the planet, so sit down and enjoy the pizza!!
Yes we can do small things that don't take much effort and don't ruin the "fun" that life can offer such as recycling and not wasting power, but the planet will always outlast humans regardless of what we think.
As someone pointed out the environment and human life will adapt in the future the same way evolution has worked for millions of years and whether I drive my 19mpg Focus ST or my 50mpg Civic Diesel really won't make a blind bit of difference to the future of the planet, so the fact the gov't can tax me so much for my choices is ridicilous.
The human race doesn't need to do anything major to affect the future of the planet, the planet will spew us all off the face of it if it does ever get sick of us
Yes we can do small things that don't take much effort and don't ruin the "fun" that life can offer such as recycling and not wasting power, but the planet will always outlast humans regardless of what we think.
As someone pointed out the environment and human life will adapt in the future the same way evolution has worked for millions of years and whether I drive my 19mpg Focus ST or my 50mpg Civic Diesel really won't make a blind bit of difference to the future of the planet, so the fact the gov't can tax me so much for my choices is ridicilous.
The human race doesn't need to do anything major to affect the future of the planet, the planet will spew us all off the face of it if it does ever get sick of us
I suppose that having been brought up in a time of austerity I just don't like to see unnecessary waste.
Les
28 July 2008, 10:34 PM
#154
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Isn't it funny how the government are telling us "not to put windowed envelopes in the paper recycling bin" and "commercial vegetable peelings must not be put on your garden compost heap" - tiny trivial (but taxable and fine-able) things that even short term will have an almost zero effect on our planet!
Yet at the same time, they want to build great hulking big nuclear power stations full of tons of radioactive elements with a half-life of 25,000 years (i.e. only half the crap to worry about after hundreds of generations of humans), when they haven't even got a proper plan to get rid of the hundreds of tons of existing radioactive waste that they want to bury - i.e. LANDFILL (albeit a long way underground).
Hypocrites!!!!
mb
Yet at the same time, they want to build great hulking big nuclear power stations full of tons of radioactive elements with a half-life of 25,000 years (i.e. only half the crap to worry about after hundreds of generations of humans), when they haven't even got a proper plan to get rid of the hundreds of tons of existing radioactive waste that they want to bury - i.e. LANDFILL (albeit a long way underground).
Hypocrites!!!!
mb
28 July 2008, 11:34 PM
#155
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If they build the nuclear power stations and then put all the power lines under ground, at least we'll have electricity when the next ice age comes early to the lack of greenhouse gases keeping the planet warm. (If they leave them above, they'll just fall down under the weight of ice build up)
29 July 2008, 06:01 AM
#156
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I notice there is rather a large number of Govn't pushing forward with "climate policies" to be inplemented and functioning by 2010, some in 2012. Seems to fall very neatly in line with a cooling trend.
29 July 2008, 10:55 AM
#157
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another interesting piece on MMGW & the IPCC hockey stick graph at Devil's Kitchen today.
The Devil's Kitchen
The Devil's Kitchen
29 July 2008, 11:42 AM
#158
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And it works both ways, HG, as the article says. Unreliability is part and parcel of any statistical approach on climate, in my opinion. Asking for "proof" using such methods is flawed from the outset, whichever side you happen to believe. That's why i prefer to concentrate on the fundamentals.
29 July 2008, 12:12 PM
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29 July 2008, 05:27 PM
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And it works both ways, HG, as the article says. Unreliability is part and parcel of any statistical approach on climate, in my opinion. Asking for "proof" using such methods is flawed from the outset, whichever side you happen to believe. That's why i prefer to concentrate on the fundamentals.
i agree. the whole subject is so tainted by propaganda plus selective statistics and science of various flavours that sensible debate - and above all, sensible science - is no longer possible.
we need to re-boot the science and start afresh.
29 July 2008, 06:52 PM
#161
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30 July 2008, 03:01 PM
#162
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The funniest bit of it all is that it was called "Global Warming" when the temps were rising and we were told the planet would go into melt down.
Now its (naturally) gone into a cooling cycle they have had to change it to "Climate Change"!!
Now its (naturally) gone into a cooling cycle they have had to change it to "Climate Change"!!
31 July 2008, 12:27 PM
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31 July 2008, 03:32 PM
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11 September 2008, 11:50 AM
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11 September 2008, 12:56 PM
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mmmmm.. Manhattan Declaration
yes. deliciously, this drives enviro-commissars like george 'frothing loon' monbiot into either a) a frenzy, b) denial or c) smear mode. how dare anyone commit heresy against their proto-marxist agenda? after all, it's taken a long time and a lot of hard work to resurrect communism under the social acceptability of the green lobby.
however, our lazy, craven media won't hunt with this for fear of the smear. nor with the recent utter demolition of the statistical analysis behind the IPCC 'hockey stick' graph so adored by al gore.
Last edited by Holy Ghost; 11 September 2008 at 01:04 PM.
12 September 2008, 09:30 AM
#170
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If we had a separate thread for each new coldest, warmest, wettest, driest etc etc around the globe since records began, we'd be onto page 50 by now.
But don't worry, it's all just a tax scam, it must be.
But don't worry, it's all just a tax scam, it must be.
12 September 2008, 10:49 AM
#171
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These are exacly the kinds of statements alarmists are unsing in support of the theory of AGW. Golbal warming/climate change leads to wetter, warmer, drier, colder, more wind, more storms, more severe storms (After Katrina alarmists predicted more to come. Never happend) etc etc.
Can anyone find an emissions trading scheme that actually has lead to a reduction in emissions? You won't find one. You will find many schemes rasing vast amounts of money though.
Can anyone find an emissions trading scheme that actually has lead to a reduction in emissions? You won't find one. You will find many schemes rasing vast amounts of money though.
12 September 2008, 11:00 AM
#172
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When will people learn that global warming is a load of S**T!!!
Climate change has been happening since the earth woz formed,its always happend it will always happen,dont be suckerd in by it all,there is nothing we can do so go trade your priuses in for 500 bhp Scoobs and enjoy
You dont live forever
Climate change has been happening since the earth woz formed,its always happend it will always happen,dont be suckerd in by it all,there is nothing we can do so go trade your priuses in for 500 bhp Scoobs and enjoy
You dont live forever
12 September 2008, 11:34 AM
#176
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So far, nothing. No investment in carbon sinks, alternatives, public transport etc etc etc...
In the three years an ETS existed in the UK, not one red cent has been spent on reducing these nasty Co2 emissions. Not one red cent has been spent on "stopping climate change".
In the three years an ETS existed in the UK, not one red cent has been spent on reducing these nasty Co2 emissions. Not one red cent has been spent on "stopping climate change".
12 September 2008, 11:37 AM
#177
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My point is, is that money raised does not go into a a private bank account, it is still used for public expenditure.
12 September 2008, 11:45 AM
#178
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The congestion charge is not an emissions trading scheme, call it a green tax if you like, but there is no "commodity trading".
And my point is, they money isn't being used for the reason it was raised.
And my point is, they money isn't being used for the reason it was raised.
12 September 2008, 12:12 PM
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Problem is with ring fencing is that you get unnecessary expediture. Say green taxes raise £100million, and the budgeted expediture in that area for the year is £80million. Because those funds are ring fenced, invariably the £20million is spent on unnecessary projects in order to maintain funding the following year. (Much like we see councils having lots of unnecesary expenditure in Jan/Feb to ensure the same funding the following year).