Crank/big end problems - options?
05 April 2008, 01:09 PM
#31
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Yes I've fettled the clutch release arm myself a few times when mysteriously the end cap had disappeared off the pivot rod and it was just sliding back and forth making for a weird clutch action. While I was down there I made up a braided clutch hose to the slave cylinder, it made a huge difference to the clutch feel.
I've got a workshop manual already. So, take out the pivot pin, then just pull the arm straight up and out? I bet putting it all back in again is harder than taking it out LOL. I've even just been and 'sourced' an old pallet to put stuff on rather than leaving it all over the garage floor.
I think I've decided on the DIY build. Nothing ventured nothing gained eh? Now this is what I'm chewing over at the moment - anything that stands out as odd, bearing in mind I'm saving as much money as I can:
I've got a workshop manual already. So, take out the pivot pin, then just pull the arm straight up and out? I bet putting it all back in again is harder than taking it out LOL. I've even just been and 'sourced' an old pallet to put stuff on rather than leaving it all over the garage floor.
I think I've decided on the DIY build. Nothing ventured nothing gained eh? Now this is what I'm chewing over at the moment - anything that stands out as odd, bearing in mind I'm saving as much money as I can:
- Re-use existing EJ20 block, already overbored .5mm as far as I know only 15k miles ago so should be still OK? £0
- Replace ALL mains and big ends as a matter of course? £150
- Second hand good crank obtained locally £150
- New steel rods and forged pistons from US (I don't necessarily need or want to rev it, but I do want to be able to cane it flat out in 5th at 6500 revs without having to worry about another engine build!) £400
- Rebuild existing oil pump (what exactly is the 'mod' that people pay £150+ for?)
- Replace heads for v3/4 STi or ported WRX to make good power without needing high revs? £400
- Paint existing inlet manifold WHITE!
05 April 2008, 05:15 PM
#32
I think you are about right with what you have mentioned.
The oil pump usually have new gears to uprate them.
The STI heads I think have better valves and bucket shims which allows higher revving. I don't think the design is much different to the WRX heads but don't know that for sure.
I would consider having your own crank checked before buying a new/second hand one. You need to know 2 things 1) If it is indeed ok without needing regrinding (just needs new shells) 2) That it wasn't reground last time by the crooks you mention as this could be the reason for the failure in the first place.
Also, new rods and pistons are obviously a good idea but do you need to go to that expense. I would say from what has been advised on here that at and around 350hp the standard stuff shouldn't be a problem. Thats again depends on if there is any damage to either.
Wayne.
The oil pump usually have new gears to uprate them.
The STI heads I think have better valves and bucket shims which allows higher revving. I don't think the design is much different to the WRX heads but don't know that for sure.
I would consider having your own crank checked before buying a new/second hand one. You need to know 2 things 1) If it is indeed ok without needing regrinding (just needs new shells) 2) That it wasn't reground last time by the crooks you mention as this could be the reason for the failure in the first place.
Also, new rods and pistons are obviously a good idea but do you need to go to that expense. I would say from what has been advised on here that at and around 350hp the standard stuff shouldn't be a problem. Thats again depends on if there is any damage to either.
Wayne.
05 April 2008, 05:33 PM
#33
Right then mate,
I honestly think if you're going to the cost of rods pistons and a new crank you'd be better sourcing a 2.5. Infact I may just be able o get my hands on a one for you. I heard today of a warranty replacement unit that wasn't needed as it turned out to be a tensioner not a bottom end.
I reckon that could be had for about £750. This is how I came about mine but I've just sold it on.
Infact mate if you like drop me a PM I'd be happy to discuss options in detail.
Incedently the oil pump that everyone refers to is the RCMS item which has an uprated pressure relief valve. The OE ones are prone to sticking. Again Its advised to bin your old pump and buy a new one.
Cheers
Daz
I honestly think if you're going to the cost of rods pistons and a new crank you'd be better sourcing a 2.5. Infact I may just be able o get my hands on a one for you. I heard today of a warranty replacement unit that wasn't needed as it turned out to be a tensioner not a bottom end.
I reckon that could be had for about £750. This is how I came about mine but I've just sold it on.
Infact mate if you like drop me a PM I'd be happy to discuss options in detail.
Incedently the oil pump that everyone refers to is the RCMS item which has an uprated pressure relief valve. The OE ones are prone to sticking. Again Its advised to bin your old pump and buy a new one.
Cheers
Daz
Last edited by dazdavies; 05 April 2008 at 05:37 PM.
05 April 2008, 07:38 PM
#34
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Thread Starter
OK well now we're getting to the nitty gritty and if I haven't said so already, many thanks to all of you contributing on this thread - it's much appreciated.
The thing I want to be able to do, even if my target is only 300-350bhp is to have it totally safe. Hence my thoughts on at least dropping some US-bought forged pistons into it to cope with anything - most likely cause of stress will be flat out high speed runs on track or on the autobahn. Revving is not something I need so much, it just doesn't feel right in a turbo somehow to have it running at even 7000 let alone 8000 rpm. In my old Clio 16v that would sit at 7500 rpm all day long and it was unbreakable. There's something about the Subaru lump that I just don't trust.
So now, what's to be done...Wayne says go cheap and reuse as much as poss, Daz says go 2.5... decisions decisions!
The thing I want to be able to do, even if my target is only 300-350bhp is to have it totally safe. Hence my thoughts on at least dropping some US-bought forged pistons into it to cope with anything - most likely cause of stress will be flat out high speed runs on track or on the autobahn. Revving is not something I need so much, it just doesn't feel right in a turbo somehow to have it running at even 7000 let alone 8000 rpm. In my old Clio 16v that would sit at 7500 rpm all day long and it was unbreakable. There's something about the Subaru lump that I just don't trust.
So now, what's to be done...Wayne says go cheap and reuse as much as poss, Daz says go 2.5... decisions decisions!
05 April 2008, 08:01 PM
#36
Been there done both. I built a forged 2.0L (which is still going strong). Then I went the 2.5 route. Best thing I have ever done. MY 2.5 bottom end was completely standard. I ran it at 452 bhp for 7000 miles!!! Because I got it for reasonable money I bought it before i sold the forged 2.0L as I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I had a spare closed deck 2.0L block that I was always going to use one way or another.
Because of the test I did with the 2.5 I have just yesterday paid £1000 to have my 2.0L closed deck block bored and sleeved to 2.5 As the 2.5's are that good!!
I can assure you that the 2.5 is the most viable and most rewarding option here it' also the most cost effective. The standard block will take 400/400 all day long!!!
Also forget all this rubbish bout the 2.5 not wanting to rev it's utter nonsense.
You should be able to do this conversion for well under £2k. That includes engine purchase, gaskets, oils and remapping and maybe a few uprades too.
Remember, this is all based on my actual experience gained from building my own engines and running them on my own car.
Cheers
Daz
Because of the test I did with the 2.5 I have just yesterday paid £1000 to have my 2.0L closed deck block bored and sleeved to 2.5 As the 2.5's are that good!!
I can assure you that the 2.5 is the most viable and most rewarding option here it' also the most cost effective. The standard block will take 400/400 all day long!!!
Also forget all this rubbish bout the 2.5 not wanting to rev it's utter nonsense.
You should be able to do this conversion for well under £2k. That includes engine purchase, gaskets, oils and remapping and maybe a few uprades too.
Remember, this is all based on my actual experience gained from building my own engines and running them on my own car.
Cheers
Daz
05 April 2008, 09:01 PM
#37
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Thread Starter
OK let's say I went for a 2.5 conversion (I am tempted if it can be had cheaper), what kind of power/torque could I expect from my current supporting mods:
ECU: v4 Apexi Power FC
FUEL: Walbro pump, SARD adjustable FPR, 440cc injectors, parallel mod
INTAKE: K&N induction cone, Samco inlet hose, TD05-16G turbo, Autobahn FMIC, mildly ported TB & manifold with insulating spacers
EXHAUST: Wrapped Harvey headers and up-pipe, wrapped GGR sports cat downpipe, straight through centre and WR Sport backbox
ECU: v4 Apexi Power FC
FUEL: Walbro pump, SARD adjustable FPR, 440cc injectors, parallel mod
INTAKE: K&N induction cone, Samco inlet hose, TD05-16G turbo, Autobahn FMIC, mildly ported TB & manifold with insulating spacers
EXHAUST: Wrapped Harvey headers and up-pipe, wrapped GGR sports cat downpipe, straight through centre and WR Sport backbox
05 April 2008, 09:24 PM
#38
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i was thinking of going 2.5 on my p1, but im thinking now is it worth it, 400bhp would be as much as i'd wont, so thinking of my gearbox a new STI9 short block seem to be the way im thinking now
costs im looking at if i went 2.5
2.5 short block £1095+vat or £1495+vat with CP pistons
new clutch £300
gaskets and seals £250ish
oil modline £100
water pump £50
head bolts £150
oil pump £150
cam belt £60
remap £600
price fitted drive in, out £600
thats £4010 with forged pistons, then i'd be thinking as my car is standard, before remap i'd better decat, filter ect ect ect lol
mark
costs im looking at if i went 2.5
2.5 short block £1095+vat or £1495+vat with CP pistons
new clutch £300
gaskets and seals £250ish
oil modline £100
water pump £50
head bolts £150
oil pump £150
cam belt £60
remap £600
price fitted drive in, out £600
thats £4010 with forged pistons, then i'd be thinking as my car is standard, before remap i'd better decat, filter ect ect ect lol
mark
05 April 2008, 11:12 PM
#39
OK well now we're getting to the nitty gritty and if I haven't said so already, many thanks to all of you contributing on this thread - it's much appreciated.
The thing I want to be able to do, even if my target is only 300-350bhp is to have it totally safe. Hence my thoughts on at least dropping some US-bought forged pistons into it to cope with anything - most likely cause of stress will be flat out high speed runs on track or on the autobahn. Revving is not something I need so much, it just doesn't feel right in a turbo somehow to have it running at even 7000 let alone 8000 rpm. In my old Clio 16v that would sit at 7500 rpm all day long and it was unbreakable. There's something about the Subaru lump that I just don't trust.
So now, what's to be done...Wayne says go cheap and reuse as much as poss, Daz says go 2.5... decisions decisions!
The thing I want to be able to do, even if my target is only 300-350bhp is to have it totally safe. Hence my thoughts on at least dropping some US-bought forged pistons into it to cope with anything - most likely cause of stress will be flat out high speed runs on track or on the autobahn. Revving is not something I need so much, it just doesn't feel right in a turbo somehow to have it running at even 7000 let alone 8000 rpm. In my old Clio 16v that would sit at 7500 rpm all day long and it was unbreakable. There's something about the Subaru lump that I just don't trust.
So now, what's to be done...Wayne says go cheap and reuse as much as poss, Daz says go 2.5... decisions decisions!
I'm defo looking at the 2.5 myself but IF I wanted to save money and not spend a fortune then I would do the cheap option. Remember though that the cheap option if done correctly with everything thoroughly checked out should do what you are asking.
Although, the more I read up on the 2.5's I would still go the 2.5 route as it seems to be alot easier to achieve decent power and reliability.
Wayne.
05 April 2008, 11:31 PM
#40
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Thread Starter
That's quite a shopping list Mark. You're right it's all the little bits like head bolts and water pump that all add up.
Wayne I think you're right to recommend the 2.0 rebuild, but like you, the more I read about the 2.5, the more it seems to suit what I want - an engine that will make an easy 320-350 with similar torque and not need caning to achieve it. I don't really want to go beyond this as I like my API drivetrain and they only just built it for me last year!
Wayne I think you're right to recommend the 2.0 rebuild, but like you, the more I read about the 2.5, the more it seems to suit what I want - an engine that will make an easy 320-350 with similar torque and not need caning to achieve it. I don't really want to go beyond this as I like my API drivetrain and they only just built it for me last year!
06 April 2008, 12:13 AM
#41
an STI 9 short block is going to be around the same money as the 2.5 short block.
It's a fairly simple decision to make. Having done it myself you'll be amazed at the low down grunt of a 2.5 but also how civilised it is to drive.
Its simply a better engine. Mine also saw 7500 rpm on numerous occasions the 2.5's dont revs rubbish is just a myth or a consequence of a badly put together package.
It's a fairly simple decision to make. Having done it myself you'll be amazed at the low down grunt of a 2.5 but also how civilised it is to drive.
Its simply a better engine. Mine also saw 7500 rpm on numerous occasions the 2.5's dont revs rubbish is just a myth or a consequence of a badly put together package.
Last edited by dazdavies; 06 April 2008 at 12:17 AM.
06 April 2008, 10:33 AM
#42
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Well now I'm thinking about lifting points for the engine, already have inlet manifold off so I can see what I'm doing, I can't see any lifting eyes on the top of the block - am I missing something? And I've decided I'll take pictures as I go, is this worth sticking up on Projects or is it too basic to bother with I wonder?
06 April 2008, 11:26 AM
#43
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Normal place to lift from is inlet manifold, there are no lifting eyes on block.
Just loop a rope around underneath each side of engine and lift from these.
Yeah get some pics up mate!
Just loop a rope around underneath each side of engine and lift from these.
Yeah get some pics up mate!
06 April 2008, 11:31 AM
#44
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an STI 9 short block is going to be around the same money as the 2.5 short block.
It's a fairly simple decision to make. Having done it myself you'll be amazed at the low down grunt of a 2.5 but also how civilised it is to drive.
Its simply a better engine. Mine also saw 7500 rpm on numerous occasions the 2.5's dont revs rubbish is just a myth or a consequence of a badly put together package.
It's a fairly simple decision to make. Having done it myself you'll be amazed at the low down grunt of a 2.5 but also how civilised it is to drive.
Its simply a better engine. Mine also saw 7500 rpm on numerous occasions the 2.5's dont revs rubbish is just a myth or a consequence of a badly put together package.
also is it really worth going for forged pistons in a 2.5 if your happy staying around the 360-380bhp mark
mark
06 April 2008, 11:47 AM
#45
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Excellent questions Mark and just what I have had at the back of my mind but didn't get round to asking ^^^^
Stoneface - problem is I've took the manifold off already. I just tend to do that to keep everything tidy and out of the way. Done it so many times, it's half an hour's work now.
My mate who's bringing the crane has got some chain as well, so I'll just loop it round like you say. I'll start a project thread as well.
Stoneface - problem is I've took the manifold off already. I just tend to do that to keep everything tidy and out of the way. Done it so many times, it's half an hour's work now.
My mate who's bringing the crane has got some chain as well, so I'll just loop it round like you say. I'll start a project thread as well.
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