Bob Rawle

Andy thanks for those comments, as you rightly say the rollers are useful if you are developing from scratch, particularly as the roads around Plymouth are nothing like as good as some areas for mapping, but given a base map (derived by the tuner not the ecu defaults of course) the road is the only way ... and why should a customer pay extra for something unnecessary. The galling thing is that to get a representative power figure for a car you actually should map it twice, once on the rollers setting the afr as you would get on the road then do it again on the road correcting the now incorrect afr you set for the dyno to be correct for the road.

You can tell a purely dyno mapped car very easily, its drivability is generally pretty doubtful in my terms however that's not a criticism as one mans meat etc.

But its all been done to death a thousand times as Alan says.

BIJ as Martyn says software locked to a suppplied ecu is available for individual customers. A tuner has wider access.

bob

__________________________________________________ _________________

Link, Motec, Simtek, EcuTek, PowerFC, DTA, Bosch, Autronic, Gems, ESL

Alan Jeffery

God alive, having spent himself banging on about our rollers, he's now having a go at our roads! Pity he didn't spend more time boning up on the Simtek instead of missing vital elements like in gear boost compensation when mapping "on the road". I hope the car you mapped on our crap roads and crap dyno isn't crap!

ZEN Performance

What is the 'kin problem here?

Alan Jeffery

Bob appears to have problems mapping the Simtek in Devon.

Bob Rawle

No problem for me Alan, as I told you when you phoned me I map on the rollers whenever I think I need to whatever ecu is being used, but ... I don't for one second pretend its the real way to do things and the subsequent road tune is essential, as for "your" roads, you forget I'm West Country born and bred so they are "my" roads as well ... lol. Cheap shot .... it missed.

Sensitive subject obviously this Simtek mapping, least to you, so lets hear you explain how the "in gear boost compensation works", the gear judge map, whats referenced to it and under what conditions ... what algorythm is used, as far as me "boning up" ... I think I must have swotted a "little bit" to get those results from Dazza's car, seem to remember you rubbished it (and me) when it was mapped up on the OEM ecu last year ... did a whole season of hard drag racing though without incident and is ready to do another.

Having completed the pre flight checks during last week and this evening, take off will commence tomorrow weather permitting, I refer to my own car, so for those interested I intend a running commentry on the change from Motec M800 to Simtek for the benefit of potential customers and potential dealers. The car has covered over 45,000 miles on the Motec running 1.9 bar, at circa 500 bhp and 440 ft lbs. Whilst it doesn't have the Motec's complexity the Simtek has all the right ingredients to match that at 1/3 the cost. I will also include some related references to comparative work using the Link G3 and Autronic ecu's.

Obviously certain detailed information will not be made public since it will be confidential to myself and BRD.

all the best

bob

__________________________________________________ _________________

Link, Motec, Simtek, EcuTek, PowerFC, DTA, Bosch, Autronic, Gems, ESL

Alan Jeffery

Bob, face facts, if I bought you a DD dyno, you'd use one more often.
As you say, Westcountry roads are not ideal for full mapping, which highlights my contention all along. We have always used the same combination as yourself, although we spend more time on the dyno on balance, due to the virtual impossibility of high speed/boost running on the local public roads.
My point is that having indicated the local difficulty, I fail to see how you could claim total success when road mapping a drag racing car in those conditions, unless it's all done in safety, and below the speed limit.
We spent a great day recently at an airfield, testing the Murtaya under real rally conditions. I can see the benefit in that, but it's hard to make claims about "real road conditions" when you can't map properly on the roads we actually drive on!
I don't share your view that the Simtek ECU defaults are defective for ab initio use, the base maps have been carefully arrived at after much effort on the part of the designers.
I fail to understand your comment re "customer paying extra for something unnecessary" We don't charge extra for the dyno, and you'd have to charge them if you hired one, as you just said you have to do occasionally!
Martyn has already pointed out your apparent failure to note a Simtek feature, maybe he mis-interpreted what you said?
I have never rubbished Dazza's car or your mapping! I tested it on two occasions in 2 litre spec when it didn't pass muster. We could all see why it didn't get there, (rich and down on boost) and put it down to faults, (boost leaks) not mapping. I have the greatest respect for Dazza's competitiveness and commitment, and I expect him to win the drag race series we are sponsoring at Smeatharpe this year! or have an eggy face.. no pressure Daz! We can't enter our own series, but I wish him well in it.
Just out of curiosity, how has your car been power tested, and on which equipment? I always struggle with the notion of quoting power figures without actually testing the facts!

Alan Jeffery

Having re-read what I said in the last line, I'm not questioning your car's power output! It may well produce more than you thought of course, I'd just like to know how you arrived at it, and any other figure you are asked to quote.
We mapped out a Simtek on an otherwise standard (decatted) early WRX recently. When the man came back to try the car I refused to tell him what the power output was until he'd driven it. When he came back going "wow wow" he was amazed to find out that the figure was nowhere near as high as he thought it was, proving my maxim that torque is often mistaken for bhp.

scoobyDAZZA

is it simtek or simtec ?

jd5217

SimTek

MartynJ

A combination of the names of Simpson Motorsport and Alcatek Industries , SimTek......

typeRv4

Why does any thread with simtek in it turn abit ugly.....

Alan Jeffery

I think it's the magic words.
"road" and "dyno"
The Simtek is great, and we all now agree on that!

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

mmm had a few maps on my car road and dyno

Have used all the mappers and tuners on this thread.

some i wont ever visit or use again

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Why use so many tuners?

jd5217

one for "road" map * one for "track" map, another for "rollers" map and finally "drag" map

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

lol over the years needed some different stuff done with different mods. sometimes one or another wernt available. and i like to try different things

you learn whos the best from trying.

its possible for anyone to have a car mapped and think its great. but til youve experienced another tuners map how you going to know its the best one?

Granby

iTrader: (5)

Come on Mel name names alright maybe PM me who you would and who you wouldn't

SoNiCa

Interesting reading again. As a foreigner on the board I especially read Simtek threads. Suprisingly, Simtek becomes so so popular in a very short of time period and I think most of the UK tuners have positive feelings about Simtek.

As a foreign user on the board Simtek is not the cheapest solution for me. I can buy a Haltech E8 for less and E11 for 200 usd more.(if simtek 800£?) This is just an example I have no idea which is better but Haltech makes these ecu over 20 years. Interestingly Simtek has no information over the web. I even couldnt find their websites. Just reading its functions over the forums.

simtekuk.co.uk ?

Is this the website of simtek? There is even no information about the ECU's they made. Is there any software available to the public for demo use? What types of cars they support?

I dont even think one ecu will make more power over another ecu but switchable map function seems a good feature. Actually that is the only thing that makes me to think about Simtek. Most of the ecu's have live mapping, antilag, and launch control blah blah. You dont even have to pay extra for some features in some ecu's.

I need more information on Simtek. A manual or a software would do the job.

Anyone willing to help please email them
subarufiles@gmail.com

Cheers
C.B

tiny gsy

this is the spec of a newage simtek but i`d imagine there isn`t a lot of difference to the classics. I believe, though I may be wrong that the main difference is the ability for the newage ecu to adjust the vvt as necessary. Sure someone will confirm:

24 X 24 3D Fuel and ignition maps
3D closed loop boost control with in gear based control so no Requirement for seperate Electronic Boost Control (i.e. AVC-R)
Individual cylinder trims for Fuel and Ignition
0.25 degrees ignition resolution
Charge temperature ignition and fuel correction tables
MAP based load calculation - MAF not required
Adjustable Pressure and RPM breakpoints
Will utilise exisiting MAP Sensor or Any aftermarket version (Delco, Bosch etc)
2 switchable fuel, ignition and boost maps now switchable on the fly
Closed loop lambda control
Closed loop idle control
A/C supported with auto shut off above a defined throttle angle
Live mapping
Gear shift light - uses Check Engine Light
Fuel and ignition based rev limiters (Soft & Hard with adjustable agression)
Supports water injection or water spray control
In gear boost control

Bob Rawle

Alan my cars performance has been posted on this and other bulletin boards several times, I will again do that for reference and as the bench mark I will be using to measure the car now I have the Simtek installed. Dazza's car ran at Stratford raceway last year which is a 1/4 mile strip not a 1/8th sprint, thats the benchmark I am posting for his reliability, we all know how cars behave on your rollers which are as prone to variances as any other from time to time I guess, he had it checked at an entirely different set of rollers just after you ran it, did exactly what it said on its tin. Old news, why are you even bothering I have to ask?

Ecu defaults, if they suit you then great, I know Steve has put the effort into them, to help people like yourselves. I've never done it anyone elses way but my own and I am not about to change after all this time.

Car is running on its V Power map, feels good at 1.9 bar already, can't wait to get the water/methanol injection working and the usual 8-10% meth in the tank and crank it up properly.

So, here you go on the graphs ... the most recent run I did was just up the road from you when there were a gaggle of witnesses to its 499.8 bhp and 430 ft lbs but thats not the benchmark I intend to use as you can see. Not the highest power fig its ever achieved but, 10 bhp is nether here nor there. BTW I have plots from the same rollers of about a year earlier, made 488.8 bhp at that time.

Bob Rawle

tny gsy that spec is applicable pretty much to the whole range.

cheers

bob

Alan Jeffery

Hi Bob.
Please forgive any impression that may have been given that I doubt the performance of your car in any way. Your ability has never been in question from this quarter. I know it's hard when trying to type something profound but brief on here, and it's easy to misconstrue the meaning. For example, you tend to come over as rather up yourself and pompous on here, which always gets me going, although when I spoke to you on the phone as you were sat in a bar on Cyprus, with a beer in your hand, you came over as affable and even witty!
I'm glad to see you are using a decent dyno, rather than one which has to have four burly chaps inside, three in the boot, and one holding the lambda probe in!
The Dyno Dynamics is a fantastic piece of kit, which is why I bought one.
Please avail yourself of my dyno cell any time you wish, free of charge, I'd love to meet you in person, and bury any feeling that I don't respect your undoubted knowledge.
Those figures are clearly impressive, and obviously accurate, I won't argue with your choice of equipment. Top man!
Honestly, I'm glad you have taken up the Simtek, I've no doubt at all that further improvements will come from your involvement, to benefit all of us using them.
Please carry on posting the graphs, I'd love to see how it goes on methanol.
We were experimenting with that stuff some 26 years ago, using a Repco V8 in a Gropa/Chevron. Hairy! stunk the place out. It was running four IDA's and needed main jets twice the size.

Marky9074

Bob is the one of very few who do not come across as 'up themselves' IMO

Bob Rawle

Alan thanks for those words, I deliberately kept out of the Simtek debates for a long time but the product has great potential across all levels of car specification. I commented to Steve yesterday that my initial impression is "smooth", Dazza's car also gave that impression.

Many thanks for your kind offer, thats also appreciated and I will be pleased to take you up on it.

take care

Bob

Alan Jeffery

Fat Boy

well said that man

scoobyDAZZA

he doesn't need to 'up' himself
all his customers do that for him

p1mark

Nice!

pot kettle black?

Although the ***** waving and rubbishing is all rather amusing in the short term, it really isn't making your business any more attractive Alan.

Eloquently stating the pro's and cons of the Simtek compared to XXX, or the good and bad points of road V roller mapping (not that we have not all been there before!) may well help your profile though?

On a side note, Bob conveyed to me before christmas how much he was looking forward to having a bash with a Simtek, and it sounds to me like it ticks all his boxes. I'm sure anyone who knows Bob properly would say he is far from pompous and up himself, either on here, or in person.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

The poster has got his question answered, Bob and Alan appear to have buried the hatchet, I think it's time for this thread to be closed before it just turns into an SN slanging match

MartynJ

Here, Here......