PeteBrant

Of course.

It's certainly not due to the black people being inherently disposed to commit crime.

Martin2005

[QUOTE]No in absoute terms am i right, not maybe right.

I know this - I was responding to the 'most crime is committed by blacks comment'

Martin2005

Did you claim political asylum then

OllyK

You don't have to be a church go-er to be a Christian. Where do you get the 6% figure from as a matter of interest?

The 2001 census indicated that 71% of the UK associate themselves with Christianity.

Martin2005

But thats like saying 'I'm a vegetarian, but I eat meat'

OllyK

So where did you get the 6, sorry 7% figure from?

I don't follow your analogy, if you believe Christ is your saviour then you're a Christian.

You may also find Matthew 6:5-8 of interest

Which suggests you should pray in private not in church.

PeteBrant

Well its certainly not 71%

It depends on your definitioan of "christian"

Are we a christian country? I would argue no - We are secular. Church attendance is around 7%

Christian Research Working with information - Turning the tide

People put "C of E" almost automatically.

Martin2005

Just google it there have been plenty of survey done - the numbers of regular 'white' practising christians is probably lower still, given that quite a large proportion of the afro-carribbean population do attend.

Are you really trying to suggest to me that rather than going to church each week, tens of millions of people are infact at home praying?
I think one of the truely great things about this country is that we've moved on from needing to use religion as an emotional crutch. We are a secular society, the vast majority only use church/religion for weddings and funerals, which is more about ritual than religion.

flashgordon666

i know a lot of people who work for immigration, they say its easy to get in this country, they said immigrates come in and then flush there passports down the toliet then by law we have to keep them for months+ to find out where they from which is next to impossiable.

Martin2005

No wonder the sewage system is in such a state then

OllyK

I've given you mine.

I'd argue the bulk of the population are apathetic, but asked if they believed in god would reply yes.

Fair enough

You do realise that "C of E" is just one sect of Christianiaty, there are a lot more such as Catholic, Methodist, Pentacostal and Baptist to name but a few.

OllyK

I prefer it if people support their own claims, I don't get accused of being biased in my selection of example that way, you did, thank you.

I have no idea, but the fact remains that over 70% of the population consider themselves Christian in some form or another. I consider myself an atheist and behave in a manner consistent with my lack of belief, why should I assume that the bulk of the population are liars? I do suspect they are somewhat apathetic however.

As an example, while I was growing up, my parents didn't attend church. In the last 20 years or so, my father has returned to church and is currently a church warden in an Anglican church. My mother is a methodist but doesn't attend church, while welcome at the Anglican church the service doesn't sit well with her Methodist philosophy and there isn't an alternative close by.

My partners parents are Christian but have not been active church goers for some years as they fell out with the Vicar at their local church. They recently moved and are now considering finding another church.

Did all 4 stop being christians in the iterim?

SetoN

Ive seen you write some rubbish Martin, but this is complete and utter tosh.

You dont have to go to church or even pray to be a christian. You just have to believe in god and celebrate that in some way. That be can be done by celebrating his sons birth at Christmas or maybe his resurrection at Easter. By taking part in any of these you are taking part in the christian way of life.

You only have to look at the schools to see that we are still as a country trying to practice chirstianity singing carols and doing nativity plays. As you get older you forget this as we dont see it as much in our daily lives.

PeteBrant

Of course, but after Anglican the next biggest percentage is going to be Catholic, which accounts for 4 million in the UK . (as stated religiion anyway)

My point is that the definition of "christian" is, I belieive taken a litte too literally by your good self. You can state you are a "christian" or "C of E" (which almost every one does when asked thier religion when going into hospital, or for censuses , for exmaple) But what does that mean? Does that mean that you life your life according to the bible? I would say for the vast majority of so called "christians" the answer is no.

There is a world of difference betweeen beleiving in a deity and living your life as a practising christian.

PeteBrant

Wicked, so if I just do the fun bits I can be a commited Christian?


That has far more to do with tradition than it is religion.

Martin2005

I doubt it, but that's really not the point. I also think that you don't have to go to church to be religious. But CofE is a default religious position for many, not based upon faith but on the absense of anything else.

My point was the words 'christian country' are sometimes used by people of no genuine christian faith, to justify some fairly unsavoury views (I'm not suggestion for one minute that to be the case with yourself). In some instances it's meant as 'white country', and therefore anti immigration or worse still just plain racist.

Martin2005

Tosh? my usual mixture of good sense and considered opinion ?

Read my posts agian, you may then think about 'untoshing me'

SetoN

Well that depends if you believe in God or not doesnt it smart ****.

PeteBrant

What? So if I do Christmas and Easter, and thats it - But beleive in god - I am a commited Christian, but if I do exactly the same amount of "worship" ie.e celebrate Christmas and Easter, but don't beleive in God, then I am an Aethiest.

Amazing Scenes.

Martin2005

Is it only christians that believe in god then?

dpb

Precisely .

The chances are that these people have always been a whole lot more productive in their lifetime than your average dole-scrounging chav/chavette both back home and in blighty .lol - in fact theyve probably contributed more tax dollars in the few years here than the 20 wayne/waynette have since they were hatched

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I have to agree with Pete here, it is very easy to class yourself as Christian, but if you don't practise this in any way, you can't really say you're a Christian.

Ok, you may have a belief, but if that is all and it has no bearing on daily life, then you can't truely say you are Christian. I firmly agree a person doesn't have to attend Church to be Christian, but I would say they have to be living a Christian way of life, away from Church. Just having a belief, but not reflecting that in the way you live your life doesn't make you a follower of a religion.

Martin2005

Exactly...well said!

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Thank you

SetoN

Martin you are a good person, i see that in yours posts So i will Un-Tosh you

As for the 'Quoted' above. Isnt that what religion is for nowdays? To give your actions an excuse? Religion is a tool. Muslims have managed to convince many weak minded that it is ok to kill yourself and others in the name of Islam.

PeteBrant

Tsk didn't bloody say that to me .... y'tart

OllyK

And there are also options of "none" and "prefer not to say". I'd suggest that when entering a hospital, those Christians that you may consider have lapsed may suddenly gain more interest in the subject.

And I'd argue that even a fundamentalist doesn't live thier life to the letter of the bible otherwise they'd be spending most of their life in jail as owning slaves and stoning children for being cheeky isn't generally accepted in this day and age.

Of course, there are plenty of other deities out there for a start. I said my definition of a christian is one who believes that Christ is their saviour, why? Well I spend a lot of time on religious fora and the consistent message from the Christians is that as long as you accept christ as your saviour before you die then you are a christian and will be saved. Now I agree that involves a whole load of goal post shifting and poor thinking, but then that's pretty much a given if you believe in the Abrahamic god anyway IMHO.

At the end of the day, religious association is a personal choice and if a person considers themself to be a member of a particular faith I don't think it's down to us to tell them they are not.

Martin2005

Change your name to Lisa, and I will

The Zohan

Ah, more religion and more arguments/discussions

i am agnostic, perhaps soomeone can show me and prove there is a god and i will right there - until then not a hope, fine for all those who feel they need it or want it

would i report an illegal - yes, they have entered the country illegally for whatever reason but illegally.

end of story, it is that cut and dry.

OllyK

The abscence position is atheism.

Just because people to chose to twist a definition to serve another purpose doesn't mean that the original definition is incorrect.