Martin2005

It's a really difficult one isn't it, and the amount I would give in that situation is impossible to answer becuase I've not been put in that position. £1,000 to save a child's life? confronted with a situation I suppose so.

Anyway thanks for the discussion, but at 3am I finally going to bed

Cheers

Martin

fast bloke

Fader alert -

Anyway - my point is - you don't actually know how much any of this **** is costing you in real terms. If you try to logic it out, it all goes pear shaped.


(While I disagree with your opinion - I've reported your infraction as unjustified in policy.... I don't think you should be infracted for having a different point of view)

Turbohot

Setting a limit on charitable contribution is fair enough IMO. Before anyone offers any help, it will be wise to make sure that the person concerned is genuinely helpless.

Global dependency cycle wheel circulates 24/7. We are inclined to join hands for genuine catastrophe. Not justifying illegal status at all, but someone's critical health is a very different issue than paying for illegal residencies. Not even a penny should be asked to spend on illegal and irrational causes IMO.

I wonder what people think about being forced to pay against others' self-inflicted illnesses in form of taxes etc?

fast bloke

erm...... I think...... but not at that level

Turbohot

Why should we be paying for anyone but our family, if some have knowingly brought their illness upon themselves? Why should the level differ?

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

I seemed to have opened a hot topic here!

Okay, to clear this up, the girl in question WAS her legally - had a visa etc. Now the point is, her visa MAY have expired. Her position is that she's working and earning money, paying taxes etc. The argument with my wife is of little consequence.

The point is should she stay or should she go?

Considering that people are saying she's a sponger - I don't think she is, she's working and earning money, contributing to the economy. Maybe she's in the process of renewing her visa IF it has expired. Clearly, she is not a burden on the country; you are not paying for her to stay here. You're more likely to be paying for some lazy British citizens to stay at home, smoke tabs, drink Stella and watch TV/gamble all day.

And, I have first hand experience of the visa system here. My wife is Brazilian and we had a huge amout of hassle sorting out her visa. She was here on a student visa and it expired whilst we were applying for residency/getting married. The only way for her to renew it was for her to leave the country and reapply. Wasn't worth it as we were getting married anyway. So I went to Brazil and got married there . She's now working in a full time job before anyone says anything.

Also, we've had friends try to visit us from Brazil and they have been refused entry; it's all down to the immigration officer at the point of entry. It's a crazy system, some people get refused entry for little reason other than their nationality. My brother in law visited us for a week and was nearly refused entry and he had: return plane ticket, a couple of thousand ££££ cash, credit cards, a letter of invitation from us/somewhere to stay, his own business in Brazil etc and they nearly sent him back!

97TURBO

Im sure u would aswell seeing as u drive an Impreza

Turbohot

With above point you have made, IMO she need not go, if she is contributing positively to the economy here. Your first post includes that the verbal has actually brought that upon- this thought of reporting her to the authorities. To me, this grassing up business, because she gave your missus a foot long tongue doesn't sound good. Think, if that girl was ok to your wife, your wife wouldn't have conceived a thought of taking a step like that. Correct?
Now, as you have mentioned that your wife is Brazilian, she and her family members too have faced hardships with this visa red tape etc. So, IMO this grassing up thought for that motormouth () girl is somewhat projected, if you know what I mean.

Red tape, duality of standards and understading levels in Immigration procedures suck, I agree.

DCI Gene Hunt

IMHO we have Laws in this country, so while I appreciate she's working and paying tax, she should either:

a) extend her visa

b) apply for residency

c) leave the country

It's that simple really.... failure to abide to these simple choices should see her deported, as if she flaunts this basic legal requirement that shows her overall attitude towards this country... i.e. no respect for it.

DCI... firm but fair

Turbohot

^ That's a lawful and rational solution without any quarms, DCI.
In gps's last post,it's stated that>
But is it rational to expect an immigrant on temporary visa to keep their gob shut (or they will be reported and deported), just because their status of residency is precarious here? I am sure you have democracy for everyone in this country too- freedom of speech etc.?
Maybe, the verbal (that gps's wife received from the immigrant) itself is not worth reporting, so by reporting her illegal status, gps's wife will gain some satisfaction of having one over her, I understand.

superscoobx

Can someone explain, why I got an infraction, and more to the point who gave it me?

Apart from voicing my opinion I have done nothing wrong. Too many do gooders that will be in shock when the country goes **** up.

Obviously if this woman is an illegal immigrant, then she is illegal, she also has no right to work here and her employer is as bad as her.

We have enough legal immigrants here without adding to these with people that cant be tracked etc.

Martin2005

If you can't work out why you were infracted then I pity you.

I didn't btw, but only because I was beaten to it by others

Turbohot

Supersoobx, It wasn't me, guv!
I am just a powerless, non-paying member. I think that you talking about "smashing her face" was taken a bit too irrational and aggressive by the infractor. This is the reason why you have been issued with an infraction IMO.

superscoobx

Look, im entitled to my opinion and that is it.

You have no reason to pity me Martin, I am perfectly aware of what i said and why i said it. Today we live in a place where we fear to rise up against the people that shouldnt be here and are defensless against them. So they do what they want. If you had seen what i have seen im sure your thoughts would change. My infraction was for trolling? Too many people are prepaired to 'police' the message boards and become a keyboard warrior (because your well hidden) But to walk around with blinkers on in the real world, where one day you may actually have to deal with a problem.

Or perhaps one day your wife, girlfriend, children (partner for the more liberal etc) may actually have a confrontation with someone like this, sit behind your computer then and infract away.

DCI Gene Hunt

Someone reading that would probably think it abusive, primarily as you are suggesting that someboby (a male) punches a female in the face.

Now while you and others may be 'having banter' there are no clues that this is in fact a joke (smilies etc).... and to be fair even with my knowledge of banter I can't tell if it's a joke or not....

So it's a fair cop for the infraction system, and for the record it wasn't me either.... we all get them from time to time, and insome cases you just have to take them on the chin...

Or if you still feel that this is wrong then you could always post "unjustified Infraction" in policy

Martin2005

I agree people shouldn't (in most circumstances) be infracted of opinions. The problem is your's wasn't an opinion it was a statement, you were advocating this chap 'smahing her face in'...'twice'. That my friend in not a 'normal' or acceptable response.

As for the rest, are you seriously suggesting that I would 'smash her face in' if I was in the same situation?

I would think that the vast majority of people would find that suggestion highly offensive.

Martin2005

Thanks fella

Abdabz

I wouldnt even need to think about it! Even if your missus is wrong, what has she lost in taking the nations concerns and doing something positive. Yes, report her and if your missus is right then its one less draining this nations resources.

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

Martin, thats pushing the boundaries of liberalism even for you.

You are saying that it is okay for people to flout visa and immigration laws?

mrtheedge2u2

Yep... report her and have her **** thrown out of the country

If she was concerned for staying then she should of gone down the official route.... that is what me and my misses did.

mrtheedge2u2

Martin.... I will like to take the opportunity to tell you I did not find superscoobx's post offensive.

Klaatu

That's the least of our worries matey, the very least. I side with Russian experts, not Al Gore, we're heading for a big chill (Again!).

Sbradley

Yep, if she's not done anything wrong then she has nothing to fear.

Well, that's what that nice Mr Blair said about ID cards and so on, so it must be right. Right?

SB

PS Seriously - report her. She'll be checked and if all is well then all is well...

Martin2005

Oh it's official then is it?

Klaatu

What, that the climate changes? Sure, it always has and always will until our Sun burns the atmosphere off! Russian scientists aren't funded by the IPCC to generate reports for policy makers.

Martin2005

Don't rule it out, that's all I ask, no harm in keeping an open mind

Klaatu

One should be keeping an open mind on what Govn't is doing, not what the planet is doing. That is a more serious "issue" facing us today.

Martin2005

Even better, keep an open mind on both!

hamyam

Just think I remember coming home from school and watching Enoch Powell and the river of blood speech, seems he was a Prophet after all

Martin2005

No he's was wrong, there are no rivers of blood