Explain the MD321 turbo?
02 January 2008, 06:15 PM
#33
Just as a yardstick:
Stock Sti V3 with all the usual support mods on V max + NF
20g = 370 @ 1.6 bar.
Can be a bit of delay while it spools from low rpm, but kept above 4500 it flies
I would think an aggressivly mapped MD/H on this engine would break it?
Stock Sti V3 with all the usual support mods on V max + NF
20g = 370 @ 1.6 bar.
Can be a bit of delay while it spools from low rpm, but kept above 4500 it flies
I would think an aggressivly mapped MD/H on this engine would break it?
02 January 2008, 07:40 PM
#35
Running an H on an MY03 STI (2L) with standard internals. Mapped to 1.6bar mid tailing to around 1.4 at top end. Boy does it shift 
Deltadash shows 325bhp at wheels, which is just about at the 400bhp mark measured at the fly. Planning on a built 2.35 this year, keeping the H and mapping on 10% meth plus splash of NF. Should provide amazing low down response and monster torque... 
Deltadash shows 325bhp at wheels, which is just about at the 400bhp mark measured at the fly. Planning on a built 2.35 this year, keeping the H and mapping on 10% meth plus splash of NF. Should provide amazing low down response and monster torque...
02 January 2008, 08:23 PM
#36
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On a standard 2l with the MD321H, what other mods do you need? Think of 1.5 bar.
Fuel pump for sure. Also other injectors? Intercooler etc?
Serge
Fuel pump for sure. Also other injectors? Intercooler etc?
Serge
Last edited by Kane STi; 02 January 2008 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Forgot s.th.
02 January 2008, 09:08 PM
#37
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That's some serious numbers being thrown around for the level of boost e.g. 388 bhp @ 1.4 bar from the dyno plot above. Those 321's must shift some air. Putting aside the fact that it's top secret for a minute, from a technical curiosity point of view, I wouldn't mind a look at the compressor map for it if one exists, to look at peak airflow, efficiency lines etc.
Last edited by silent running; 02 January 2008 at 09:11 PM.
02 January 2008, 09:13 PM
#38
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LOL Nice try Silent.... I guess they might show you a "before" version...
But not the "after"....
DunxC
P.S. I need the phone number for Lateral NOW !
But not the "after"....
DunxC
P.S. I need the phone number for Lateral NOW !
02 January 2008, 09:14 PM
#39
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Come on then Andy give me an idea of what that is going to cost (assuming you have done rough calculations...................)
Not sure whether the additional outlay to swap the 18G is worth it at all without going all out.
Happy New Year btw.......
Not sure whether the additional outlay to swap the 18G is worth it at all without going all out.
Happy New Year btw.......
02 January 2008, 09:22 PM
#40
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02 January 2008, 09:23 PM
#41
Ecu Specialist
The 321 series are very good, excellent balance allowing both std and uprated engines to perform well, given supporting and complimentary mods with the right level of mapping they both achieve predicted performance.
On the std 2 litre engine the 321H should be the weapon of choice since that allows 400 bhp to be hit whilst still only using sensible boost, 1.4/1.45 mid range and 1.35 ish at the redline should do it as long as proper fuel is used (talking V Power or Tesco 99). Sti's easier than the WRX obviously. Spool can be wicked, I generally hit the surge line without any trouble and then have to profile response. VERY responsive performance with high 300's of torque being achieved.
The 321T is more suited to either the larger capacity engines or the uprated 2 litre, on larger capacity std engines you can use similar boost to the above and achieve good mid 400's of power and low 400's of torque, on a built engine using 1.8 bar mid and 1.6 redline then greater things are easily to be had dependant on engine spec, associated mods and fuel (again).
I love mapping cars using these, they always do what they say on the tin !! I think the best I've had from a 321H is a smidge under 420 bhp, typically 405/410 seems to come up. Thats on 2 litre std engines mind.
If an owner wants to be more conservative then a very creditable 380 ish bhp can be had from around 1.3 bar boost.
So whats the secret, that would be telling of course, bottom line, a well balanced series of turbo's carefully thought out and implemented to achieve planned objectives. There is no compressor map that I know of available as such, having mapped a significant number of all variety's now though its not really of any interest to me personally, guess it would be if someone was attempting a "me to" though. Makes a change from the "put this with that to get the other" approach that sometimes we mappers struggle with. I'm sure that there are probably very good equivelants coming along out there, I've come across a couple that will probably give these a run but for now the 321 series is still the market leader.
best regards and Happy New Year to all
bob
On the std 2 litre engine the 321H should be the weapon of choice since that allows 400 bhp to be hit whilst still only using sensible boost, 1.4/1.45 mid range and 1.35 ish at the redline should do it as long as proper fuel is used (talking V Power or Tesco 99). Sti's easier than the WRX obviously. Spool can be wicked, I generally hit the surge line without any trouble and then have to profile response. VERY responsive performance with high 300's of torque being achieved.
The 321T is more suited to either the larger capacity engines or the uprated 2 litre, on larger capacity std engines you can use similar boost to the above and achieve good mid 400's of power and low 400's of torque, on a built engine using 1.8 bar mid and 1.6 redline then greater things are easily to be had dependant on engine spec, associated mods and fuel (again).
I love mapping cars using these, they always do what they say on the tin !! I think the best I've had from a 321H is a smidge under 420 bhp, typically 405/410 seems to come up. Thats on 2 litre std engines mind.
If an owner wants to be more conservative then a very creditable 380 ish bhp can be had from around 1.3 bar boost.
So whats the secret, that would be telling of course, bottom line, a well balanced series of turbo's carefully thought out and implemented to achieve planned objectives. There is no compressor map that I know of available as such, having mapped a significant number of all variety's now though its not really of any interest to me personally, guess it would be if someone was attempting a "me to" though. Makes a change from the "put this with that to get the other" approach that sometimes we mappers struggle with. I'm sure that there are probably very good equivelants coming along out there, I've come across a couple that will probably give these a run but for now the 321 series is still the market leader.
best regards and Happy New Year to all
bob
Last edited by Bob Rawle; 02 January 2008 at 09:25 PM.
02 January 2008, 09:25 PM
#42
For a 2.35 fully built engine, using your own heads you are looking at about
£6K-£7K (mind you that includes EJ22T, and good rods, pistons, crank, bearings, head studs, head gaskets, oil pump, valves, kevlar timing belt, lightweight pulleys, etc. all professionally assembled)
£6K-£7K (mind you that includes EJ22T, and good rods, pistons, crank, bearings, head studs, head gaskets, oil pump, valves, kevlar timing belt, lightweight pulleys, etc. all professionally assembled)
Last edited by STiFreak; 03 January 2008 at 01:18 PM.
02 January 2008, 09:45 PM
#43
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mickywrx you are a bad man !
DunxC
P.S. I feel that in a month or two's time my patience will melt like the snow I don't want or need !
DunxC
P.S. I feel that in a month or two's time my patience will melt like the snow I don't want or need !
02 January 2008, 10:51 PM
#46
Ecu Specialist
No not really at that level, several P1's, WR1's out there running those sort of figs without issue however torque was circa 380 ish not 400. Now breaking g-boxes thats another issue !! (not on the WR1 obviously)
cheers
bob
cheers
bob
02 January 2008, 11:28 PM
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02 January 2008, 11:33 PM
#48
I also have fitted tubular headers, which really helped complement the H and were a significant upgrade (on that turbo) compared to ported OEMsOh, and happy New Year!
02 January 2008, 11:37 PM
#49
03 January 2008, 08:51 AM
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03 January 2008, 09:04 AM
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Here's my 99 V5 type r limited spec,
MD Variant - 321T
Supporting Power Mods - 2.5 Api conversion, forged pistons etc
Max boost by what RPM - 1.8 bar @ 3200
Max power by what RPM - 432 bhp @6450
Max torque by what RPM -430 lb/ft
Drivetrain Mods - Exedy Clutch, API rebuilt 6 speed gearbox.
Other comments -Probably making more power now as it has been fitted by API with the Simtek ECU which has done away with the crappy MAF.
Had it on the rollers yesterday and had Pat the map doing a few tweaks and now it's gone a bit manic on the torque
MD Variant - 321T
Supporting Power Mods - 2.5 Api conversion, forged pistons etc
Max boost by what RPM - 1.8 bar @ 3200
Max power by what RPM - 432 bhp @6450
Max torque by what RPM -430 lb/ft
Drivetrain Mods - Exedy Clutch, API rebuilt 6 speed gearbox.
Other comments -Probably making more power now as it has been fitted by API with the Simtek ECU which has done away with the crappy MAF.
Had it on the rollers yesterday and had Pat the map doing a few tweaks and now it's gone a bit manic on the torque
Last edited by burns; 03 January 2008 at 09:14 AM.
03 January 2008, 09:23 AM
#54
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I have a H on my 2.5, and it is nice! I did not go for the T because the H spools up quicker and realistically I do not want more than 400/400
03 January 2008, 10:24 AM
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03 January 2008, 10:34 AM
#56
Banny - I was advised by Bob Rawle and a couple of other experts on here that although I could get away with the OEM injectors (503cc I think?) plus FPR, a better and safer engineering solution was 650 injectors, which also allow more scope for future upgrades
03 January 2008, 02:12 PM
#57
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The 321 series are very good, excellent balance allowing both std and uprated engines to perform well, given supporting and complimentary mods with the right level of mapping they both achieve predicted performance.
On the std 2 litre engine the 321H should be the weapon of choice since that allows 400 bhp to be hit whilst still only using sensible boost, 1.4/1.45 mid range and 1.35 ish at the redline should do it as long as proper fuel is used (talking V Power or Tesco 99). Sti's easier than the WRX obviously. Spool can be wicked, I generally hit the surge line without any trouble and then have to profile response. VERY responsive performance with high 300's of torque being achieved.
The 321T is more suited to either the larger capacity engines or the uprated 2 litre, on larger capacity std engines you can use similar boost to the above and achieve good mid 400's of power and low 400's of torque, on a built engine using 1.8 bar mid and 1.6 redline then greater things are easily to be had dependant on engine spec, associated mods and fuel (again).
I love mapping cars using these, they always do what they say on the tin !! I think the best I've had from a 321H is a smidge under 420 bhp, typically 405/410 seems to come up. Thats on 2 litre std engines mind.
If an owner wants to be more conservative then a very creditable 380 ish bhp can be had from around 1.3 bar boost.
So whats the secret, that would be telling of course, bottom line, a well balanced series of turbo's carefully thought out and implemented to achieve planned objectives. There is no compressor map that I know of available as such, having mapped a significant number of all variety's now though its not really of any interest to me personally, guess it would be if someone was attempting a "me to" though. Makes a change from the "put this with that to get the other" approach that sometimes we mappers struggle with. I'm sure that there are probably very good equivelants coming along out there, I've come across a couple that will probably give these a run but for now the 321 series is still the market leader.
best regards and Happy New Year to all
bob
On the std 2 litre engine the 321H should be the weapon of choice since that allows 400 bhp to be hit whilst still only using sensible boost, 1.4/1.45 mid range and 1.35 ish at the redline should do it as long as proper fuel is used (talking V Power or Tesco 99). Sti's easier than the WRX obviously. Spool can be wicked, I generally hit the surge line without any trouble and then have to profile response. VERY responsive performance with high 300's of torque being achieved.
The 321T is more suited to either the larger capacity engines or the uprated 2 litre, on larger capacity std engines you can use similar boost to the above and achieve good mid 400's of power and low 400's of torque, on a built engine using 1.8 bar mid and 1.6 redline then greater things are easily to be had dependant on engine spec, associated mods and fuel (again).
I love mapping cars using these, they always do what they say on the tin !! I think the best I've had from a 321H is a smidge under 420 bhp, typically 405/410 seems to come up. Thats on 2 litre std engines mind.
If an owner wants to be more conservative then a very creditable 380 ish bhp can be had from around 1.3 bar boost.
So whats the secret, that would be telling of course, bottom line, a well balanced series of turbo's carefully thought out and implemented to achieve planned objectives. There is no compressor map that I know of available as such, having mapped a significant number of all variety's now though its not really of any interest to me personally, guess it would be if someone was attempting a "me to" though. Makes a change from the "put this with that to get the other" approach that sometimes we mappers struggle with. I'm sure that there are probably very good equivelants coming along out there, I've come across a couple that will probably give these a run but for now the 321 series is still the market leader.
best regards and Happy New Year to all
bob
Now you have had a chance to analyse the data and think about it a bit more, what are your thoughts on the turbo i fitted on the WR1 that you mapped just before xmas, as a direct comparrison to a MD321H?
03 January 2008, 03:15 PM
#58
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This is good stuff, keep it coming. So basically on a 2.5 build, it's straight to the 'T'. On a 2.0 an 'H' keeps the flexibility along with 400bhp achievable at lowish boost, the 'T' is more for those who like to rev and are looking for closer to 500 than 400? Decent summary?
