The Zohan

In the UK, true. But some other countries and cultures, thr family stays together, the youngster look after the elders, nothing wrong with that in principal.

IMHO Aus has it right and we can learn a lot from them on immigration!

AsifScoob

I agree with this.

Asif

Santas Elf

I agree, so why not just 'allow' them in... but they have to get private medical insurance and are not entitled to 'claim benefits'... and if they break the law and it's a one-way ticket home

Sorted

AsifScoob

Paul,

Assume 750,000 is correct, assume that they came in over the last 10 years only (actually, after how long are you classed as legal? Does anyone know?)

Then 75,000 is a small % of the number of visitors every year.

I have some sympathy for your other points, except that, at the polls (General Election) the proof is not in the pudding.

Asif

WRX_Dazza

that still wont stop Deep Pockets or PS Lewis lol

AsifScoob

This is very similar to what I have said in the past. Allow people in, they can do what they want, they can work, sit indoors, whatever, but short of the first 4 hours of A&E (if they need hospital) NO BENEFITS AT ALL.

Begging (not sure if washing windows badly is working), criminal behaviour, etc to be met with the full force of the law, then instant deportation.

Why is it so difficult?

Asif

PeteBrant

Yes, inconsistancies..


Try this one on for size. How about you have to pay the government £10,000 tomorrow, as a bond not to break the law for the next 10 years. After that period, you can have it back. This covers everyone in the country.

That sound ok to you?

Leslie

If they were honest-the bond would be returned plus the interest which accrued over that period. But that would be asking too much of this load of creeps.

Les

The Zohan

LOL!
Yet agian Peter i wil answer youi even thought you so not show me the same courtesy - or cannot...

Why 10 years, sounds a bit silly, calm down.
i do dount if 'foreign' relations visiting are going to be here for more than a month or so (hardly 10 years Peter, get a grip please), i can last that long without breaking the law so yes, fine





Still not willing to come up with a solution eh Peter?

Now please, you wrote this and expect people to believe you so;

Where are you figures to back up your spoutings about a small minority Peter, you have been asked - put your money where you mouth is mate

You come across as a smart bloke often with well thought out arguments, really you do. You then gob off about small minoritiess like this is a well known fact - well prove it.

...and come up with a solution whilst you are at it.

PeteBrant

The point I am trying to make, Paul, is that once you say "yes it is ok to assume the guilt of *everyone*" then you are on a slippery slope, one that I am not at all comfortable with.

As for figures, I didn't post them because they are in the original article on the BBC site. But, since you ask...

I dont need to propose a solution, because I don't perceive a problem.

EddScott

LOL.

"I'm marrying you because you have a fit **** and as your from eastern europe, your under the belief I live like a king"

"It is not to wheel your old dear into my home to give me grief and watch Colditz like its a soap"

[Davey]

Go visit them instead, I'll bet the weather is nicer and you'll probably have a better time

I think the Aussies have got it right, we need to take a leaf out of their book!

The Zohan

Unless i am mistaken the figures do not say how many stayed on past their visa expiry in the UK as 'illegals' which is really the crux of it.

Peter. re guilty until proven innocent
The govenrment already do this - i was convicted of speeding (42 in a 40) as i was the registered owner of the vehicle, infact it could have been my partner driving at the time, short version is that it was a road we travelled down some 4+ times a day, they took a pic of th back of estate car with tinted windows so we could not see who was driving, indeedd how many people where in the car.


If what this (**** poor) govenment proposes, helps with the illegals issue then fine by me. I do feel that it is punishing everybody and the inocent alike and i do not like this approach but then agian there is a lot i do not like about this country.

The real problems lie with our porus borders and PC approach to immigration and allowing people to stay even though they cannot prove who they are.

We cannot even get rid of the criminals who cimmit crime here for fear they may be punished in their own country FFS.

We need to change the system, not allow illegals to work here, punish severely those who employ them and kick out those who enter illegally the miniute they are caught. FFS our won goventment employs them, or at leasrt did do until they where caught out/


Peter i am sure you will agree that people cross vast continents to get to the UK - it is easy as pie to get acorss the channel undetected (along with drugs and guns). Why? because we have the best benefits and are an easy country to stay in, no matter what.

We are signed up to the euro human rights treaty, that in principal is a great idea - in practice is being abused and misused.


Why else do we the UK have the immigration problems we do.

PeteBrant

Well, this solution is designed to stop people staying past three months. We know from the figures that 5.75 million people visit the UK and out of thos epopel not on Business, less than 1.1% stayed longer than 3 months (of course the current visa lasts 6 months, so those staying longer than 3 months are not necessarily illegal)

That means a grand total of 63,250 people staying past 3 months. How may of those stayed on illegally? Even if I gice you the massive benefit of the doubt and say 50% stayed on illegally (which it will be no where near), that means 31,625.

5,175,000 people, 31,625 of which possibly, maybe, stayed on illegally.

And the solution to this is to charge everyone £1000


Genius.

Oh well , that's ok then.

So it was either you or your partner driving, whichever one it is owns up and takes the points. I don't see the problem?

Of course there are problems with immigration. But waht you are talking about here is the whole picture rather than this specific issue. I do not agree with a bond being placed on visitors to this country. For the reasons I have already described. The wider debate on immigration has been covered many many times before as you know.

Surely the ECHR applies ot all EU countries? So why is it a UK problem?

The Zohan

Peter.

If the ECHR applies to tal the toher countires then why are people travelling thought these countires to get to the UK - why is that is that do you think?

Could it be

Whilst others have signed up their benifits systems do not support the benefits culture that we have in the UK and people wanting to get a piece.

The likes of France have relationships with certain countries and these countries promise not to punish or persecute those return. Very sensible IMHO but somehting we as a nation do not subscribe to.


there are two reasons for a start.


As for who was driving our car, the picture arrived some 14 days to the day and TBH we could remember and with good reason, jenny was off on maternity leave and me on paternity leave but is was OK to go for the owner.

I am done with this, it is going nowhere fast and we will have ot agree to disagree Peter.

If you are right then we do not have a problem and this is pointless anyway.

SJ_Skyline

Maybe they plan to use the bonds to further prop-up the Nortern Rock...

PeteBrant

No problem with that

Santas Elf

I however think that it's a good thing... will it be like the premium bonds? you know ... every month one lucky immigrant 'invester' gets a one in a million shot at winning full entitlement to become a resident of this fine country!!

PeteBrant

The ones that have seen "the Island" will never go for it...

Santas Elf

.... hmmmm, maybe something along the lines of "The Running Immigrant" then.... You're shot down a slide in a rocket powered sled, then you and a couple of your matey boy immigrants have to outrun a few 'gatty' style chasers armed with flamethrowers.... no, scrub that... too obvious

The Zohan

Maybe a bit obvious but never the less a great idea - they could televise it and put it on primetime TV to help placate the masses.

NL would be seen to do something about the problem and bonus uis we get more reality tv

How about Big Mustafa
like big brother but when evicted they get sent back to theier contry or origin.

Or - I'm and Illegal get me outta detention (and onto Benefits)
where they have to pass no so difficult challenges ans they acrue more benifits and finally a free pass to settle.

Brendan Hughes

"I'll buy that for a dollar!"