pslewis

NoobyScooby - cheers for that.

I have written a recorded delivery letter to Peter Keenan, the MD of CURRYS - my second letter to him - rejecting the TV.

I gave him 10 days to resolve the situation to my satisfaction. Everywhere I have read says that I will have to pay for the time I have enjoyed the product ... hence the reduction in the refund I claim - ?

CURRYS may wish to go to court .... should be interesting

dpb

What if he paid for it wit wheetabix tokens

pslewis

Bought on Credit Card - I think a letter to my Credit Card Company may be in order .... they are jointly liable.

noobyscooby

pslewis wrote - "Everywhere I have read says that I will have to pay for the time I have enjoyed the product ... hence the reduction in the refund I claim"

But you are NOT "enjoying" the product and it is still sufficiently new for you to have a FULL REFUND!!

Take nothing less - it is your absolute right.

The point is that no one knows how long a TV might last therefore it is utterly unreasonable for someone like Curry's to turn round to you and say, for example, "The manufacturer's guarantee on this set is for 1 year. You have had it for 6 months therefore we are only going to refund to you half the price you paid."

Will you be happy with that? Somehow, I think not!!

So, take no prisoners, demand a full refund together with any reasonable additional costs that you may have incurred in securing that refund if it becomes protracted.

dpb

Happy- yo jokin man . Hell want 10 pages +

pslewis

Well .............. heard absolutely nothing!!

Maybe they are just seeing what I do now? Interesting stance

pslewis

Got a letter today from CURRYS Support ........ "Our systems show that the initial engineer reported that the TV was running to specification and the second job states that we offered to take it into the workshops for further investigation and you refused"

END OF ......

Cheeky lieing gits!!

The first Engineer stated that it was a borderline case for replacement, the second Engineer said that it was borderline and he has no idea how to measure the area that the faulty pixel needs to fall in ... he rang the workshop who said they didn't know how to measure it either!

He said he could take it into the workshops for up to 28 days to see what they 'thought' about it .... but, it may well come back without any repair.

I have just rung CURRYS Support and asked a workshop rep to come out and make a decision - they said they cannot do that, the TV would have to come into the workshops for up to 28 days!!!

I asked why - answer ... "The Engineer will need some equipment to test the TV" ....................... what?? a TAPE MEASURE IS ALL HE NEEDS!!!! FFS!!!

They are like a brick wall - I would SERIOUSLY advise against buying ANYTHING from Currys/Dixons/PCWorld!!

Looks like a Small Claims Court action is required, I am shocked at their attitude - they clearly believe they are in the right (or are they trying it on?) ...... will I win?

p1mark

As far as i can see it, the letter states what has happened.

Nope...you won't win.

Unless of course you can present evidence to the contrary. Did you write down EXACTLY what happened and what was said between the enginers and yourself in a note pad or similiar as it happened - as this would be admissable evidence in a small claims court? It does not have to be witnessed, just a proper account of what was said.

If not, it's your word against Curry's, and you will loose.

Look on the bright side, you now have an excuse to go and get yourself a decent telly from a reputable outlet.

pslewis

I took notes each time the 'Tech Guys' left the house - I know how important that is.

Basically, they could not decide whether it should go into the workshops as it could well just come out, 28 days later, unrepaired.

All I requested was an Engineer from the workshops who could make a decision on the spot .... if they choose to repair, they can take it away - if it's just to get another 'opinion' then they cannot as that is an unreasonable request (losing your TV for 28 days!)

Should have bought from John Lewis ........ learn from my mistake .....

p1mark

If you have notes...and they directly contravene the engineers service report (and i mean from an outsiders viewpoint, not from your own wierd and wonderful outlook) then go for it as you have a chance.

I think your argumemt / insistence that they supply an engineer that is capable of making a spot decision holds no water. You will get a Curry's 'trained' engineer, and it's Currys remit who they send?

Not trying to be devil's advocate here, merely how it would look when presented in a small claims court.

If you turn up in court behaving as you do on here, expect to be fooked off pretty sharpish.

pslewis

p1mark, thanks for your input.

I will not appear in court as I do on here, don't worry - I'm now talking real life not a BBS Character

I have taken time off work on 2 occassions to allow their Tech Guys to come in and look at the TV - for them to ask for a 3rd is unreasonable, I'm sure an outsider would see that too?

Really interested in what outsiders think of this actually as its that view which should prevail in court.

The facts are that on the first visit they said that the Pixel was on the borderline of a replacement TV .... no need to test or use equipment, it is simply a faulty pixel - panel faulty.

Second visit the Tech brought a diagram of a rectangle - he said that the pixel was on the borderline and he could only offer an opinion as to whether it should be replaced. He said they could take it away for up to 28 days to let the workshops look at it, but they would only base their decision on an opinion as they don't know how to measure it.

Consumer Direct say that CURRYS are restricting my Statutory Rights by claiming 'Manufacturers Tolerances' at me. They say I have a claim under the Sale of Goods Act whatever they say about where the pixel is. They seem very, very confident that CURRYS will setlle out of court and settle in full + expenses/costs. (which brings me back to why they are being so stubborn?)

p1mark

This is from your first post Pete - Are you saying 2 engineers arrived together and one thought you should get a new panel but the other did not?


"My LG 42" Plasma has a flashing bright green pixel ..... Currys 'Tech Guys' been to look at it about 1 month ago. 2 Technicians arrive and cannot agree whether I should get a new panel."

Devildog

Ok, Pete.

Whether this is a bona fide claim or another wind up, you are raising some important and worthwhile questions about consumers rights.

You have asked why are they being so stubborn. The answer is simple - they are hoping you will go away. After all, 90% of consumer complaints do, ultimately, so the odds are stacked in their favour.

You have asked if you will win, and the answer is "probably not". As Mark has said above, it will be your word against theirs.

And please, don't rely too heavily on one or other consumer groups without taking professional legal advice. They all mean well, bit often they are idealistic in the extreme.

The main laws that preserve consumer rights are the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (SGA), the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 (SSGCR), the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (SGSA) and the Distance Selling Regulations 2000 (DSR).

The majority of your rights are protected under the SGA. This law states goods must be "of satisfactory quality". This means there should be no faults or defects in components or design at the time of manufacture that affect appearance or make the product unusable or unsafe.

And here is problem 1. Does the problem render the TV unusable, or unsafe? You have already stated that the rest of your family don't notice the pixel - but you do. There will always be a degree of subjectivity with such matters.

And hence the whole manufacturer's tollerance argument rears its head. No, Curry's shouldn't be hiding behind this, but if the manufacturer pitches up in Court and, for example, is able to convince the Court that it is not possible to elimiate every dead or faulty pixels from such technology at that price range, you will be screwed. The courts will apply a "reasonableness" approach to items such as this.

Now, your TV should also be "as described" and "fit for purpose". In other words, it should be capable of undertaking the task it is described as being able to do.

However, fit for purpose is more generalised, for example if you buy a 4 slice toaster that only toasts 2 slices, then the goods are not as described or fit for the purpose you wanted. This could also count as misrepresentation of goods, which you can report to Trading Standards. If however the toaster toasts 4 slices, but not evenly all over, you are on much more difficult ground.

From what you have said, aside from the green pixel, yout TV does exactly what i says on the tin.

So your biggest problem here is demonstrating to the Court that your green pixel renders the TV unuseable, as that appears to be your only angle here.

At the end of the day, that might come down to you switching it on in Court and letting the Court decide.

If this is a genuine complaint, I wish you good luck

EddScott

If it was me, I'd check my home insurance policy and then ensure the telly has a little accident.

Happens all the time.

I thought you were going for the Viera anyway. Everyone here told you to at the time. I ended up paying under 700 for our PX42 and got 5 years.

However, if your one for a fight, give them hell. You got nothing to lose

pslewis

Yes

2 Tech Guys arrived first visit - 1 said replace, the other said borderline (they each rang the workshops and spoke to different people) .... they BOTH said ring the Manager of the CURRYS I bought it from - this I did.

On the second visit, 2 Tech Guys again turned up - one had the diagram the other just sucked through his teeth and said "I wouldn't live with that considering what you paid for it".

So, I have had 4 Tech Guys look at it - I have had 3 Tech Guys ring the workshop and no-one can say whether it should be replaced or not "BORDERLINE".

I would have thought a borderline case would have been given in the Customers favour??

pslewis

Devildog - good post, thanks for your advice ..... it is no wind-up at all.

I need to see the Manufacturers Spec on the panel - one of the Tech Guys said, "If we measured the panel size and split it into 1/3rds then your pixel comes within the reject parameters and you get a new TV" ...... "I don't know where I am supposed to measure from, the Cabinet? the visible panel? or as they would do in the factory - the actual panel size" ..... "I'm going to have to ring the Workshop for a definitive answer to that"

He rings the workshop .... I hear him ask the question where does he measure from because one way the pixel is 'in' the other way it is 'just out' .... his words to the workshop, "Ah, you don't know either!? Well what do I tell the customer who is stood here awaiting an answer to replace or not?"

"Sorry Sir, the workshops don't know - not sure what to do now, maybe we could take it into the workshops but that may be a fruitless task as they could simply return in 28 days time without a repair - but, I will offer that to you"

I declined.

Simon 69

I havent forgotton about this Pedro, but Ive only just got in.

Simon

pslewis

Cheers Simon ..... they are not playing ball - simply offering to 'take the TV into the workshops' for evaluation ....... to my mind, they have 'evaluated' the TV on two seperate occassions - a third will not result in any movement forward.

They have offered no repair - infact, quite the opposite - they have said on two occassions they will not repair/replace/refund!!

Don't worry about it - when you get time drop me a pm ... cheers

p1mark

The first couple of pages listen to your bollox i thought you a) had no chance b) were on a wind up, but now....

If 2 technical guys can't agree...there must be some mileage in this if it goes to a small claims court? Unless one is a sub-ordinate or an apprentice type.

If you wrote all this down and can present it without looking like an arrogant ****.....its gotta be 50/50

pslewis

50/50 it's looking better

I would have thought a poor uneducated customer in a wheelchair taking on the might of a Multi-Million £££££££ corporation would have a slight advantage??

B-B

Surely if the owner cannot bear to watch the TV because the pixel flashing sends him into apoplexy every time he watches HIS TV - then in the owner's eyes the TV is unuseable. It is Pete's TV, bought by him, with his credit card for his use in his house. So if he finds it unuseable......It doesn't matter if his wife and daughter find it acceptable or the court do or any Tom, Dick or Harry.

A TV is bought for entertainment via visual pleasure. If this fails then it is failing in its 'fitness for its purpose'.

I am hoping that you are deciding what action to take Pete - not whether to take any action?? As has been said by Devildog before they hope by ignoring you and fobbing you off that you will get bored and go away. Maybe someone should point the MD to Scoobynet and some of your protracted postings!!

B-B

pslewis

B-B ..... you have just reminded me - the Credit Card Company is jointly liable!!!!!!!!!!

They won't be too happy at CURRYS stance

Devildog

Its not that simple though, and whilst I agree with you that it should be sufficient to render the TV unuseable, I doubt that in law it would.

I would agree that should be the case, however a TV is bought to display moving pictures and sound. In that respect it achieved what it sets out to do. "Fit for purpose" is purely objective, not subjective.

Pete, have you raised the payment as "disputed" with your credit card company on the basis that you are not happy, want a replacement and Curry's is not playing ball?

pslewis

Thanks for your tips Devildog - I am about to write to the Credit Card Company ........... I'm assuming they will chase CURRYS for their money back?

I'll use a template letter off the internet .....

Another letter to Peter Keenan explaining what I have done will be reasonable - I must be reasonable in all procedings, and I think I have been up to now?

Devildog

What they will do is flag the transaction up with Currys as disputed, and depending on the timescales and credit card provider may apply a chargeback to Currys' streamline (or whatever provider they use for card transactions) account. You won't get the money back straight away as it is effectively held pending resolution of the dispute.

It's certainly something to put in your letter to Peter Keenan and may carry more weight.

The problem is, no matter who you address your letter to, it will simply be intercepted and passed to their "customer services" department. Unlikely that Peter Keenan will even know it exists. Such is the way of large corporates.

What you could also try is to phone Currys customer services and ask to be put through to a team leader or section head. Persist and never deal with the first monkey that answers the phone.

ps - just phone your cc company first and ask to be put through to the dispute section - they will tell you what you need to do.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

sound advice. an advantage i guess with credit cards

pslewis

I don't think I should give up ......... all I want now is my money back, either from the Credit Card Company or CURRYS - then a nice trip to John Lewis would be on the cards, price match, 5 year warranty and Customer Service as it SHOULD be everywhere!!

Not this shower of crap called CURRYS/Dixons/PCWorld!! I honestly thought bad Customer Relations went out with the 1970's ............ CURRYS seem to have kept the skill of treating Customers like **** alive and well

noobyscooby

PSLewis - do not give up. You have given the proper notice asking for your refund. Now go on-line and issue the small claims court proceedings immdiately. Not to do so after threatening such action will be seen as backing down.

It only costs you a few quid to go to the small claims court where you only have to prove that on balance the goods you have got are not fit for purpose, but it will cost Curry's hundreds if not thousands to defend! First, they will have to appoint a lawyer. He/she will require statements from all the people involved. They will then have to travel to YOUR local court which is probably miles away. They will need witnesses. You don't - you just turn up with the telly, turn it on in a darkened court room and point out the winking green pixel - once the judge has clocked it, he/she will find it as irritating as you especially as, with no signal available, you will hopefully have tuned to a plain black screen where is will stand out like the sore thumb it is!

You say you have made notes after each visit. Good. DO NOT TIDY THEM UP. These are known as "contemporaneous notes" [remember this phrase and how to spell it] and these are VERY VALUABLE but only if it is clear that you have not messed about with them later even if there are some remarks that might count against you. I repeat DO NOT ALTER THESE NOTES IN ANY WAY. You must present the originals to the court with copies for those in the court.

Good luck and keep us advised!

pslewis

Thanks noobyscooby ..... I think it will cost me £65.

If it is found against me - do I have to pay the other sides costs? I'm assuming that it doesn't - as the TV is clearly faulty, of that there is no dispute.

Indeed, I doubt there is no aerial in court to get a good signal so the screen will be black ...... it does look REALLY bad with a black screen!!

To the credit of the Tech Guys, they all said that they could not live with it if the TV was theirs!!

Credit Card letter today - they may fire it up? and another letter to Peter Keenan.

I'll also contact Consumer Direct again, they offer encouragement to go ahead with litigation - they are surprisingly bullish about it all.

Can they ask for me to move the case to Sheffield, as the Defendant has the choice of court - haven't they? I guess I could argue that I bought it from their outlet in Basingstoke, so it should be held in Basingstoke?

Leslie

I have been away for a week only to find this is still going on!

I'm sorry you are having so much trouble with Curry's. On balance if you can get your cash back from the credit card people I think that would be better than going to court just in case you lose. If you did I think you would be responsible for costs. Its all down to a subjective opinion by the Judge and you never know what he might think especially with a whole load of boloney from Curry's over borderline positions of the bad pixel etc.

Les