bbc1 NOW!!! scarey!!
24 July 2007, 07:19 AM
#32
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I think you will find the shame should be placed firmly with Blair, Brown and NL!
Rathert than snipe away at SN posters without understanding the issues brought to light in last night's Panorama why not watch the programme - link above in one of the posts and see what the problems are, tollerance is somthing the brits have in bucketloads but there gets to a point where this is not enough.
Watch the programme then comment!
Last edited by The Zohan; 24 July 2007 at 07:42 AM.
24 July 2007, 08:28 AM
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Great soundbite!
I think you will find the shame should be placed firmly with Blair, Brown and NL!
Rathert than snipe away at SN posters without understanding the issues brought to light in last night's Panorama why not watch the programme - link above in one of the posts and see what the problems are, tollerance is somthing the brits have in bucketloads but there gets to a point where this is not enough.
Watch the programme then comment!
I think you will find the shame should be placed firmly with Blair, Brown and NL!
Rathert than snipe away at SN posters without understanding the issues brought to light in last night's Panorama why not watch the programme - link above in one of the posts and see what the problems are, tollerance is somthing the brits have in bucketloads but there gets to a point where this is not enough.
Watch the programme then comment!
I was going to write a balanced, detailed reply, but 2 things stopped me. One being the fact that the first person to express a different opinion got an infraction
. Then I read what was written as your 'location' and figured I'd probably loose anyway.
24 July 2007, 08:35 AM
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I watched the programme and found it to be a lot more balanced and objective than the posts on this thread.
I was going to write a balanced, detailed reply, but 2 things stopped me. One being the fact that the first person to express a different opinion got an infraction .
Then I read what was written as your 'location' and figured I'd probably loose anyway.
I was going to write a balanced, detailed reply, but 2 things stopped me. One being the fact that the first person to express a different opinion got an infraction
. Then I read what was written as your 'location' and figured I'd probably loose anyway.
An infraction (assuming you got one) matters that much to you does it, hmmmm
What a cop out, if you feel strongly that this is a biased thread (and just because so far the majority do not feel like you do) then i am sure you would feel compelled to write something, whaty a cop out!
As for your oh so clever
inferrence that i am idiot - you are entitled to your opinion as am i, and without being insulted by you or told i should be ashamed of myself by another member thank you.
Last edited by The Zohan; 24 July 2007 at 08:45 AM.
24 July 2007, 09:13 AM
#37
Great soundbite!
I think you will find the shame should be placed firmly with Blair, Brown and NL!
Rathert than snipe away at SN posters without understanding the issues brought to light in last night's Panorama why not watch the programme - link above in one of the posts and see what the problems are, tollerance is somthing the brits have in bucketloads but there gets to a point where this is not enough.
Watch the programme then comment!
I think you will find the shame should be placed firmly with Blair, Brown and NL!
Rathert than snipe away at SN posters without understanding the issues brought to light in last night's Panorama why not watch the programme - link above in one of the posts and see what the problems are, tollerance is somthing the brits have in bucketloads but there gets to a point where this is not enough.
Watch the programme then comment!
Believe me, if Monaco, the Seychelles or Bahamas started offering free housing, free benefits or 10x my current salary and all I had to do was arrive there and claim asylum or just move there because of the easy immigration regulations then I'd be off like a shot.
We are now a United States of Europe, internal borders mean nothing and people will flow to where they can get or make money as easily as they can.
You can complain all you want about gypsy scum or houses containing 20 Poles but the British government let them in, and they are taking full advantage of the situation.
24 July 2007, 09:20 AM
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The simple fact people are willing to travel to an island and often risk life and limb to get here travelling through fully westernised countries with high standards of living tells you all you need to know. They're here for the handouts and to bleed what they can from the UK because it's given to them.
Anyway I thought it was the right of us Brits to hate any foreigner?
Anyway I thought it was the right of us Brits to hate any foreigner?
24 July 2007, 09:37 AM
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24 July 2007, 09:45 AM
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Also has anyone on this thread stopped to think that maybe NL aren't the only ones who can spin things. Let's face it as has been proved recently the BBC aren't adverse to making things seem the way they want and it is very easy to make a programme like Panorama say anything you like depending on how things are edited.
Not saying the programme doesn't have a good point to make in this instance, but it is all too easy to embellish the facts to make the whole situation seem a lot worse than it really is.
Personally I don't trust this or any other government on many issues, but in general I trust the media even less.
24 July 2007, 09:49 AM
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24 July 2007, 11:02 AM
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I know I said I wouldn't - but every once in a while I stick my head above the parapet.........
We're not the only country with an unwelcome immigrant problem. In another European nation they have seen over 700,000 immigrants arrive from a single country. Many of these immigrants refuse to intergrate at all. They refuse to learn the language or adopt any of the customs. They have put many local restaurants out of business by refusing to even sample the local cuisine and have instead built their own eateries serving, what are to them, more familiar foods. They are even setting up schools that will educate their children in their mother tongue instead of that of the host country.
To accomodate them tens of thousands of houses have had to be built destroying once picturesque towns and villages. Prices for homes has risen so steeply in some areas that locals can no longer afford to live there and families who have lived in the same village for generations are now being forced to live elsewhere.
During seasonal peaks the immigrant population grows. In the evenings they move around in gangs drinking themselves to oblivion, vomiting and urinating in the streets - these outings often ending in violence. The indigenous populations in these areas were forced to leave long ago.
I'm talking about the Brits abroad in Spain. Of course not all of them are bad - many have integrated well, but you only have to take a brief holiday out there to see that a large proportion have not and do not treat their new host country with any degree of respect. In a bizarre quirk of law they are also still entitled to many of the benefits they would receive if they were living here and many of them get terribly upset if our government tries to stop funding their new life.
Why bang on about this? Because people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Many imigrants in this country adapt and integrate well, they work hard and pay their taxes - others do not, but British immigrants abroad are little better. When the imigrants come to the UK many do it because of war, famine and abject poverty in their home nation - they left behind conditions we cannot even imagine. Many Brits move to Spain because they want nicer weather.
Panorama was not anti immigrant - it was making the point that the government should track the numbers a little better, which is a perfectly valid point. The danger is that some will take that message and twist it to suit their own anti-immigrant viewpoint.
We're not the only country with an unwelcome immigrant problem. In another European nation they have seen over 700,000 immigrants arrive from a single country. Many of these immigrants refuse to intergrate at all. They refuse to learn the language or adopt any of the customs. They have put many local restaurants out of business by refusing to even sample the local cuisine and have instead built their own eateries serving, what are to them, more familiar foods. They are even setting up schools that will educate their children in their mother tongue instead of that of the host country.
To accomodate them tens of thousands of houses have had to be built destroying once picturesque towns and villages. Prices for homes has risen so steeply in some areas that locals can no longer afford to live there and families who have lived in the same village for generations are now being forced to live elsewhere.
During seasonal peaks the immigrant population grows. In the evenings they move around in gangs drinking themselves to oblivion, vomiting and urinating in the streets - these outings often ending in violence. The indigenous populations in these areas were forced to leave long ago.
I'm talking about the Brits abroad in Spain. Of course not all of them are bad - many have integrated well, but you only have to take a brief holiday out there to see that a large proportion have not and do not treat their new host country with any degree of respect. In a bizarre quirk of law they are also still entitled to many of the benefits they would receive if they were living here and many of them get terribly upset if our government tries to stop funding their new life.
Why bang on about this? Because people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Many imigrants in this country adapt and integrate well, they work hard and pay their taxes - others do not, but British immigrants abroad are little better. When the imigrants come to the UK many do it because of war, famine and abject poverty in their home nation - they left behind conditions we cannot even imagine. Many Brits move to Spain because they want nicer weather.
Panorama was not anti immigrant - it was making the point that the government should track the numbers a little better, which is a perfectly valid point. The danger is that some will take that message and twist it to suit their own anti-immigrant viewpoint.
24 July 2007, 11:11 AM
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A Somali arrives in London as a new immigrant to England.
He stops the first person he sees walking down the street and says, "Thank you Mr English man for letting me in this country, giving me free housing, free food stamps, free medical care, free education and all wonderful social monetary benefits!"
The passerby says, "You are mistaken, I am Iranian."
The man goes on and encounters another passerby. "Thank you for having such a beautiful country here in England!"
The person says, "I am not English, I am from Turkey."
The new arrival walks further, and the next person he sees he stops, shakes his hand and says, "Thank you for the wonderful England!"
That person puts up his hand and says, "I am from Libya, I am not English!"
He finally sees a nice lady and asks, "Are you an English?"
She says, "No, I am from Iraq!"
Puzzled, he asks her, "Where are all the English people?"
The Iraqi lady checks her watch and says ....
"Probably at work."
Its sad really. However, no real issue with people coming over and working. What it does show is that the people sitting on the "job seekers allowance" are just idle and if they were bothered then there would be jobs for them. I'd remove it and give people a job, even if it was picking up tab ends from the gutter. Need to stop this money for nothing PC culture.
5t.
He stops the first person he sees walking down the street and says, "Thank you Mr English man for letting me in this country, giving me free housing, free food stamps, free medical care, free education and all wonderful social monetary benefits!"
The passerby says, "You are mistaken, I am Iranian."
The man goes on and encounters another passerby. "Thank you for having such a beautiful country here in England!"
The person says, "I am not English, I am from Turkey."
The new arrival walks further, and the next person he sees he stops, shakes his hand and says, "Thank you for the wonderful England!"
That person puts up his hand and says, "I am from Libya, I am not English!"
He finally sees a nice lady and asks, "Are you an English?"
She says, "No, I am from Iraq!"
Puzzled, he asks her, "Where are all the English people?"
The Iraqi lady checks her watch and says ....
"Probably at work."
Its sad really. However, no real issue with people coming over and working. What it does show is that the people sitting on the "job seekers allowance" are just idle and if they were bothered then there would be jobs for them. I'd remove it and give people a job, even if it was picking up tab ends from the gutter. Need to stop this money for nothing PC culture.
5t.
24 July 2007, 11:15 AM
#45
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I'm talking about the Brits abroad in Spain. Of course not all of them are bad - many have integrated well, but you only have to take a brief holiday out there to see that a large proportion have not and do not treat their new host country with any degree of respect. In a bizarre quirk of law they are also still entitled to many of the benefits they would receive if they were living here and many of them get terribly upset if our government tries to stop funding their new life.
However, there is one massive difference, the vast majority of these people are bringing their money into the country, whereas many of the working immigrants in the UK are taking their money out of the country (not good for the economy).
The benefits being recieved by the brits here are mainly pensions, and these are of course their UK pensions, being paid by the UK government. If you arrived here as a UK citizen with no money, nowhere to live then it's tough **** basically. The Spanish government will not house you, they will not give you any benefits whatsoever.
Also it is most certainly not confined to the Brits. There are Dutch, German, Sweedish communities all failing to integrate. They are all bringing their money into the country though, and everything they buy (food / drink / shopping) whilst here is bringing money into the local economy, and providing employment to the Spaniards. Even if they are eating in their own nationality bar / restaurants, these are being supllied with food / drink / ice etc by Spanish companies on the whole.
Last edited by Nido; 24 July 2007 at 11:18 AM.
24 July 2007, 11:30 AM
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I know I said I wouldn't - but every once in a while I stick my head above the parapet.........
We're not the only country with an unwelcome immigrant problem. In another European nation they have seen over 700,000 immigrants arrive from a single country. Many of these immigrants refuse to intergrate at all. They refuse to learn the language or adopt any of the customs. They have put many local restaurants out of business by refusing to even sample the local cuisine and have instead built their own eateries serving, what are to them, more familiar foods. They are even setting up schools that will educate their children in their mother tongue instead of that of the host country.
To accomodate them tens of thousands of houses have had to be built destroying once picturesque towns and villages. Prices for homes has risen so steeply in some areas that locals can no longer afford to live there and families who have lived in the same village for generations are now being forced to live elsewhere.
During seasonal peaks the immigrant population grows. In the evenings they move around in gangs drinking themselves to oblivion, vomiting and urinating in the streets - these outings often ending in violence. The indigenous populations in these areas were forced to leave long ago.
I'm talking about the Brits abroad in Spain. Of course not all of them are bad - many have integrated well, but you only have to take a brief holiday out there to see that a large proportion have not and do not treat their new host country with any degree of respect. In a bizarre quirk of law they are also still entitled to many of the benefits they would receive if they were living here and many of them get terribly upset if our government tries to stop funding their new life.
Why bang on about this? Because people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Many imigrants in this country adapt and integrate well, they work hard and pay their taxes - others do not, but British immigrants abroad are little better. When the imigrants come to the UK many do it because of war, famine and abject poverty in their home nation - they left behind conditions we cannot even imagine. Many Brits move to Spain because they want nicer weather.
Panorama was not anti immigrant - it was making the point that the government should track the numbers a little better, which is a perfectly valid point. The danger is that some will take that message and twist it to suit their own anti-immigrant viewpoint.
We're not the only country with an unwelcome immigrant problem. In another European nation they have seen over 700,000 immigrants arrive from a single country. Many of these immigrants refuse to intergrate at all. They refuse to learn the language or adopt any of the customs. They have put many local restaurants out of business by refusing to even sample the local cuisine and have instead built their own eateries serving, what are to them, more familiar foods. They are even setting up schools that will educate their children in their mother tongue instead of that of the host country.
To accomodate them tens of thousands of houses have had to be built destroying once picturesque towns and villages. Prices for homes has risen so steeply in some areas that locals can no longer afford to live there and families who have lived in the same village for generations are now being forced to live elsewhere.
During seasonal peaks the immigrant population grows. In the evenings they move around in gangs drinking themselves to oblivion, vomiting and urinating in the streets - these outings often ending in violence. The indigenous populations in these areas were forced to leave long ago.
I'm talking about the Brits abroad in Spain. Of course not all of them are bad - many have integrated well, but you only have to take a brief holiday out there to see that a large proportion have not and do not treat their new host country with any degree of respect. In a bizarre quirk of law they are also still entitled to many of the benefits they would receive if they were living here and many of them get terribly upset if our government tries to stop funding their new life.
Why bang on about this? Because people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Many imigrants in this country adapt and integrate well, they work hard and pay their taxes - others do not, but British immigrants abroad are little better. When the imigrants come to the UK many do it because of war, famine and abject poverty in their home nation - they left behind conditions we cannot even imagine. Many Brits move to Spain because they want nicer weather.
Panorama was not anti immigrant - it was making the point that the government should track the numbers a little better, which is a perfectly valid point. The danger is that some will take that message and twist it to suit their own anti-immigrant viewpoint.
Agree about Brits abroad. A lot are ignorant pigs. Island race tends to breed that mentality somewhat though.
24 July 2007, 11:37 AM
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Whether or not the problems highlighted in the panorama programme are genuine or not is pretty much irrelevant now.
Now, you all know me a looney lefty, but I have to say on this issue, it is clear that the British Public are reaching breaking point.
What the reality of the situation is is now secondary to what the perceived reality is. People have had enough. Something has got to change, otherwise there is only one outcome; bloodshed.
Now, you all know me a looney lefty, but I have to say on this issue, it is clear that the British Public are reaching breaking point.
What the reality of the situation is is now secondary to what the perceived reality is. People have had enough. Something has got to change, otherwise there is only one outcome; bloodshed.
24 July 2007, 12:42 PM
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Roma Gypies - the uberscum of europe as well, great.
21 in a 3 bed making the neighbours lives a living hell, crime up - i wonder why.
Oh for just one hand granade!
Sits back and waits for the doo-gooders to tell me agian how we need them and how it is good for the ecomnomy, etc
i give it 7 years until we have civil war, like a lot of the countries these immigrants come from they should be used to it at least.
We will end up a third world country at this rate
May sound racist but there ya go!
21 in a 3 bed making the neighbours lives a living hell, crime up - i wonder why.
Oh for just one hand granade!
Sits back and waits for the doo-gooders to tell me agian how we need them and how it is good for the ecomnomy, etc
i give it 7 years until we have civil war, like a lot of the countries these immigrants come from they should be used to it at least.
We will end up a third world country at this rate
May sound racist but there ya go!
Les
24 July 2007, 12:43 PM
#50
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24 July 2007, 12:54 PM
#52
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A Somali arrives in London as a new immigrant to England.
He stops the first person he sees walking down the street and says, "Thank you Mr English man for letting me in this country, giving me free housing, free food stamps, free medical care, free education and all wonderful social monetary benefits!"
The passerby says, "You are mistaken, I am Iranian."
The man goes on and encounters another passerby. "Thank you for having such a beautiful country here in England!"
The person says, "I am not English, I am from Turkey."
The new arrival walks further, and the next person he sees he stops, shakes his hand and says, "Thank you for the wonderful England!"
That person puts up his hand and says, "I am from Libya, I am not English!"
He finally sees a nice lady and asks, "Are you an English?"
She says, "No, I am from Iraq!"
Puzzled, he asks her, "Where are all the English people?"
The Iraqi lady checks her watch and says ....
"Probably at work."
Its sad really. However, no real issue with people coming over and working. What it does show is that the people sitting on the "job seekers allowance" are just idle and if they were bothered then there would be jobs for them. I'd remove it and give people a job, even if it was picking up tab ends from the gutter. Need to stop this money for nothing PC culture.
5t.
He stops the first person he sees walking down the street and says, "Thank you Mr English man for letting me in this country, giving me free housing, free food stamps, free medical care, free education and all wonderful social monetary benefits!"
The passerby says, "You are mistaken, I am Iranian."
The man goes on and encounters another passerby. "Thank you for having such a beautiful country here in England!"
The person says, "I am not English, I am from Turkey."
The new arrival walks further, and the next person he sees he stops, shakes his hand and says, "Thank you for the wonderful England!"
That person puts up his hand and says, "I am from Libya, I am not English!"
He finally sees a nice lady and asks, "Are you an English?"
She says, "No, I am from Iraq!"
Puzzled, he asks her, "Where are all the English people?"
The Iraqi lady checks her watch and says ....
"Probably at work."
Its sad really. However, no real issue with people coming over and working. What it does show is that the people sitting on the "job seekers allowance" are just idle and if they were bothered then there would be jobs for them. I'd remove it and give people a job, even if it was picking up tab ends from the gutter. Need to stop this money for nothing PC culture.
5t.
There's a lot we can learn from some foreign cultures when it comes to family and community values.
This isn't about immigrants sponging off the government, it's about anyone who's too lazy to get of their **** and find a job. And laziness is not specific to any one nationality.
24 July 2007, 12:58 PM
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Except that having worked with the long term unemployed, many of them are English and have no intention at all of ever finding work. My sis in law currently works in a job centre and it's still the same story. Brits turning down jobs because it means working for a living and immigrants taking those jobs because to them taking handouts from the goverment is an embarrassment to their pride.
There's a lot we can learn from some foreign cultures when it comes to family and community values.
This isn't about immigrants sponging off the government, it's about anyone who's too lazy to get of their **** and find a job. And laziness is not specific to any one nationality.
There's a lot we can learn from some foreign cultures when it comes to family and community values.
This isn't about immigrants sponging off the government, it's about anyone who's too lazy to get of their **** and find a job. And laziness is not specific to any one nationality.
24 July 2007, 01:19 PM
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My sis in law currently works in a job centre and it's still the same story. Brits turning down jobs because it means working for a living and immigrants taking those jobs because to them taking handouts from the goverment is an embarrassment to their pride.
THat's why i'd give them a job, emptying bed pans at a hospital or something. No money for nothing and it would make that job at Burger King a lot more inviting. Bunch of leeches.
5t.
24 July 2007, 09:45 PM
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The benefits culture we now have leaves an open door for work hungry immigrants to come in and do jobs 'British people can't be bothered doing'. It's about time there was a serious debate about benefits. Personally I'd have a 5 year max limit on job seekers allowance, or whatever it's called. Any more than 5 years and you don't claim a penny, and I'd make you work for 5 years before you're entitled to anything.
I also don't understand the billions and billions pumped into the NHS and all the waste that's produced. I'd make that free for those up to 18 and after 65 and make everyone else pay privately. Anyone on job seekers allowance wouldn't have any NHS cover either
On the Spain point, yes there are vast swathes of insular English ghettos on the coast. Fair play to them, they managed to push a massive amount of money and investment into a p1ss poor country, not even counting the billions of grants the Spanish have probably had off the back of the ex pats during their working careers in the UK. Can't really compare that with what we have right here now.
I also don't understand the billions and billions pumped into the NHS and all the waste that's produced. I'd make that free for those up to 18 and after 65 and make everyone else pay privately. Anyone on job seekers allowance wouldn't have any NHS cover either
On the Spain point, yes there are vast swathes of insular English ghettos on the coast. Fair play to them, they managed to push a massive amount of money and investment into a p1ss poor country, not even counting the billions of grants the Spanish have probably had off the back of the ex pats during their working careers in the UK. Can't really compare that with what we have right here now.
24 July 2007, 09:54 PM
#57
Very common amongst other ethnic groups, one can only guess the numbers of Asians and Chinese here on other peoples passports as it is quite a common way for them to come into country.
25 July 2007, 07:16 AM
#58
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when you enter the STATES, its a finger print scan and eye scan. they asked me/us when we were leaving (we were on honeymoon) and stamped our passport and put a little slip of card that got removed when we left.
why haven't we been doing that??
why haven't we been doing that??
25 July 2007, 09:21 AM
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One of the first things that needs to be changed regarding the benefits system is the fact that it makes temp work virtually impossible. For many of the long term unemployed the best way back into a permanent role is by starting as a temp, except they can't afford to because the signing off and then signing back on process is so complex and takes so long that they inevitably end up out of pocket.
25 July 2007, 09:24 AM
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Other things we should do:
If you want to live in France all the forms are in French. Its a case of "want to live here? learn the language then" not wasting money by printing everything off in 20 languages so that people can claim job seekers as they don't speak the language.
Also the Vignette that places like Switzerland and Austria have for using the roads. Like temporary road tax for foreign cars. That would help out with all the untaxed Polish motors knocking about, the same cars that can't be done by cameras because we don't have their details, don't have an MOT and like as not aren't insured.
5t.
If you want to live in France all the forms are in French. Its a case of "want to live here? learn the language then" not wasting money by printing everything off in 20 languages so that people can claim job seekers as they don't speak the language.
Also the Vignette that places like Switzerland and Austria have for using the roads. Like temporary road tax for foreign cars. That would help out with all the untaxed Polish motors knocking about, the same cars that can't be done by cameras because we don't have their details, don't have an MOT and like as not aren't insured.
5t.
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