No.

 

Cheers Moses.
I like to think I am an open minded person so none of the above opinions bother me in the slightest
My neighbour gives me a Christmas card and I give him one for Eid, live and let live eh?

 

And there is a problem with many Athiests. Your opinion and thought about the nature of divinity has, rather ironically in my mind, been so warped, skewed and influenced by the Abrahamic version of 'god', that you seem unable to comprehend that alternative beliefs about the nature of divinity exsist beyond the "big white dude with the beard" that I mentioned before.

As for my 'god''; The universe exsists, the universe created and sustains life, and it is beyond our comprehension. The universe is divine, divinity is 'god', 'god' is the universe/the universe is 'god'. My god exsists, and you accept it because you believe in the exsistance of the universe and science; you just look at it in a different way to which I do. None the less, you still accept it exsists. £2000 please!

 

Hmm, interesting that we're actually going back to what i said before, about infinity. As you say, that is what's beyond comprehension. But i don't need this conception of it having been "created". And as for the Adam and Eve crap - well, words fail me. WHY do people still deny that we've evolved from something else, an earlier species? As it stands, and as i understand it, we've evolved separately from most primates, but we've evolved nonetheless. What sort of clouded mind do you need to have to be able to accept that man as we see him today just happened to arrive one day as a result of some Garden of Eden miracle? It's as good a fairy story as any, but BILLIONS of people still cling onto it. It's mind-boggling to me. Like any human i do sometimes wonder about the purpose of it all, and i hate to break it to you but i actually don't have a narrow minded view of how people interpret God, but to my mind they all fall short of providing any real answers, only hope and a convenient way of satisfying Man's natural curiosity.

 

Nice, are you a member of the New Labour Party

 

Two questions for non-believers (the majority):

1) Do you believe that the whole universe exists in only 3 dimensions?

2) If you don't and feel that other dimensions exist do you accept that we would not be able to comprehend what these might mean/lead to?

 

and this relates to there being a God, how exactly Until we prove such things, you'd have as much legitimacy in saying "do you think Star Trek is real?"

 

1. Perhaps not.

2. No, naturally not.




Your point being?

 

1) No - time is often considered the 4th dimension. Many more have been postulated.
2) You seem to be confusing spatial dimensions with multiverses.

 

1. No - there's at least four that anyone can measure.

2. No. Why would we not be able to eventually comprehend where they might mean/lead to?


And why would these questions only be put to non-believers?

 

I do find it difficult to comprehend that millions of people belive in a person / idea yet;

They nor anybody they know has ever met / spoken to / had any contact with them / it at all.

However a Nigerian gentleman offered to buy my car, yet we had never met he had never seen the car nor had anybody he knew ever seen it !!!

 

My point is that I think it is reasonable to surmise that there are many more dimensions and this will result in forces/actions/events that we do not understand. Within this incomprehensible framework may be something that we could call God. Something that might have created nature out of molten rock but in an orderly way.

What is the 4th dimension that I seem to have missed?

Perhaps this sounds a bit silly to you but I have been thinking about this for 50 years and I keep coming back to the feeling that there is a being/force that is part of the universe and is in some way responsible for what happens and this might be explained by looking at diimensions other than the 3 (or 4) that we exist with and understand. dl

 

Time. Do ye no watch Dr Who!?

 

I answered this above, however, the 4th dimension is time.

String theory postulates 10 dimensions and still doesn't need to invoke a supernatural power.

 

But I have proved you wrong? God cannot exist under the laws that we live in. Physics and all that. You know for a fact that Father Christmas doesn't exist simply because it is impossible for one man to deliver presents to every kid in the world in one night, and also you know for a fact that reindeer don't fly. So if you are willing to apply science to this situation to back up your belief that Father Christmas is a fantasy then why aren't you able to do this with god?
We are taught about Father Christmas as children in pretty much the same way as god. We are led to believe its true. Yet we are able to know that it can't be true as we grow older. The same applies to god.

I just simply don't understand why people are able to believe something that is not proved to them. How many ghosts have been spotted over the years? Millions? Billions? But do you believe they exist? If so why? We know that its impossible for them to exist, so most people don't believe in them. If I saw a ghost I would change my mind. And the same if I saw god. But until its proved to me I will go on believing that its impossible. Otherwise why believe in science at all? You can't believe some of it and not other bits!
This debate about god will never end though, until we all die and I hope then its proved to all religious people that it really was just a big bunch of gobbledegouk.

Steve

 

I understand, but don't get frustrated - religions typically expect that the believer accepts the doctrine without questioning it . I don't have a problem with those that do, unless they subsequently try to ram their beliefs down my throat!

 

Personally I cant believe in God/Gods - no one has ever shown me anything remotely tangible after all; seems a basic requirement to me!

It saddens me that a minority of those that do have faith can kill in the name of their God. Historically [and currently] they can kill their fellow country men based on the differences between themselves, and the way they practice their religion - but I guess this is off topic.

Leading a good and moral life is far more important than devoting time to idolising a God/Gods. Make the most of your time here, and if there is a 5* Spa, Sauna, Golf Resort up there at the end of the day, you will surely get in for being a good egg - not for the indulgence of praying 5 times a day or getting up early on a Sunday morning!

Must say however that Budhism seems a good religion to have for those that need/want one as I dont think it is about idolatry - it is more a personal good conduct code.

D

 

Considering that almost 80% of the voters on here don't believe (or are skeptical) why do virtually all politicians claim to believe in God? I'd happily vote for someone who admitted to being an atheist but not for someone who goes around talking to a sky fairy.

I wonder how long it will be before a leading politician has the ***** to admit they are atheist?

 

Check out Humanism. It may by the kind of belief system you are looking for.

Humanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

...all well and good, but you cannot simply say there may be something out there we don't understand so let's call it 'God'.

The 'God' concept may have been OK to fill voids in our understanding before science and technology started to explain the universe but it is now outdated and irrelavent.

It sounds like your view is a Pantheist one or maybe Pandeist, but both these are simply an "I dunno" dressed in mysticism and ancient delusional belief systems.

I'm just thankful you're not a scientist as your papers would read "God did it" and that's all.

 

one of my hero's gautama sidharta but he would be turning in his grave if he knew whit happened tae his way of life and how idols and myths came intae it'

he woz a king tae me and a prince the son of maya, born intae a brahman family i believe, he rejected idols, hindusim and smashed idols and folks were after his blood, he rejected the caste system and fasted alot and did alot of other stuff and noticed he has gone astray and he woz always searching for a greater being

he reminds me of father abraham the prophet pbuh

 

GaryCat]...all well and good, but you cannot simply say there may be something out there we don't understand so let's call it 'God'.
=========

Yes I can.

=======

The 'God' concept may have been OK to fill voids in our understanding before science and technology started to explain the universe but it is now outdated and irrelavent.

========

The other side of that is that the more scientists unravel the secrets of the universe the more they don't understand.

========

It sounds like your view is a Pantheist one or maybe Pandeist, but both these are simply an "I dunno" dressed in mysticism and ancient delusional belief systems.

==========

I haven't a clue what a Pantheist or a Pandeist is. I'll have to investigate. I wouldn't consider myself as delusional

==========

I'm just thankful you're not a scientist as your papers would read "God did it" and that's all.

==========

That's a trifle unfair. In any event I am not sure I trust scientists completely.

========

dl

 

Sure, I can can say the spaghetti monster created it all, it still doesn't mean there's any kind of evidence to support that claim.


I beg to differ, but if you'd like to show an example we could consider of an area of science that we now now less about that we did 100 years ago, I'd be prepared to admit I'm wrong.

Pantheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pandeism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure I trust anyone completely, but if I'm going to look to somebody to advance knowledge or quality of life I'd be looking towards science rather than religion, that's for sure.

 

Should have made the poll public. I'd love to know who the other nutters are other than moses

 

Interesting reading. However the belief system [there's a word that puts me off straight away: "system"] does not include a divine belief in horsepower and the value of the Garnacha red grape. I'll be starting my own therefore

D

 

Olly,

The other side of that is that the more scientists unravel the secrets of the universe the more they don't understand.

========

I beg to differ, but if you'd like to show an example we could consider of an area of science that we now now less about that we did 100 years ago, I'd be prepared to admit I'm wrong.

======

The point I was trying to make, perhaps rather poorly, was that as science advances the more there is to find out. Certainly not that we know less about anything than we did before. Do you think that one day, assuming we are not wiped out, that scientists will understand everything or will there always be something to work out be it dinosaurs or black holes?

Going back to your 4 dimensions point - I was using Mass, Length and Time. What have I missed? dl

 

For every one thing we learn, it's one less thing we don't know about. Humans are their own worst enemy and I have little doubt we will be the cause of our own demise. However, given enough resource and enough time I don't see why we shouldn't be able to understand pretty much anything / everything.

The 4 dimensions are x, y, z and time or length, width, height and time if you prefer, dimensions are spatial. Mass is a measure of how much matter there is in an object

 

I mentioned before about the brilliant heart surgeon who also had an unwavering belief in God.

So,a scientist.A person dealing in life and death too.What would posess such a person to believe?

In twenty years people seem to have become completely selfish/self obsessed and totally dismissive of God.Why? I just don't know.Whatever has happened between 1980 and to date to change so many people's views?

And I still think the non believers are far more insistent that the believers should understand how misguided they are as opposed to the other way round

Obviously the Surgeon is not a car enthusiast or he would know better

 

Yes, and I think we covered a lot of the issues around that at the time.

I think you mixing atheism and apathy. In the last census, 70% of the population claim to be Christian, I doubt however, you'll find 70% of the population in a church on a Sunday morning. Those that call themselves agnostic or atheist usually do so after having studied the subject in some considerable depth. In fact many of the people I know who were Christian and became atheist did so after actually reading the WHOLE bible rather than just the extracts directed by a pastor.

I've used the Christian god in this section as it is the primary religion in the UK and it would seem you're addressing the majority

How many atheists have knocked on your door to date trying to convert you? How many from a religious background?

 

Makes me smile when you tell it like it is Moses.

Lots of the usual attacks of course. I know Telboy won't answer me of course for his own reasons, but I will make a couple of points.

As far as I am concerned, God is the name for a particular being and would be essentially the same one by definition that all the religions accept. The religions may well regard it necessary to worship Him in their own way and of course some will say that theirs is the only true way. I don't accept that as I did explain in a post I made earlier.

The point about making life in a test tube is not accurate. Its easy now of course to combine an ovum with a sperm and set off a baby in a test tube if that's how you want to put it. What is really difficult however is to create "life" as such. Do you think it would be possible to construct an ovum and a sperm by some sort of chemical method and that they would turn into a living being when combined? I believe that will not be possible since "life" is a gift which we cannot create. How does it come about then? If you have got the answer to that I will be really impressed!

There is no reason why someone who believes in God cannot accept the theory of evolution. It is also not valid to quote the story of Adam and Eve as an attack on religious beliefs. Its a good parable but is no part of an argument against God. More like another smoke screen really.

OllyK, in the first place I have never attempted to convert you or anyone to "the light!". When will you realise that I want only to be left to my beliefs without the sense of being attacked for them. That is the reason why I speak up about it, I have only ever defended those who wish to follow religious beliefs from the sort of unpleasant attacks that we see so often here. I am not accusing you of that by the way. I respect your beliefs since I hold that you have a right to them as much as anybody has. That is why I mention a bit of tolerance and a sense of live and let live goes a long way. I am certainly not attacking you because of your Atheism.

I happen to be scientifically minded and am only too interested in what they claim to have discovered and also the theories which appear. As was mentioned earlier, theories don't prove that something does or not exist so we can never be positive about what has been quoted. Bit like Global Warming really, we don't know for certain what to believe now!

Belief or not in a superior being is very much a personal thing, it is natural as we can see in the way that tribes far from the influence of modern man have the same sort of beliefs. Informed discussion about it is interesting but it is an age old argument which will not be settled in my opinion since we all prefer to follow our own instincts about it.

Les