subaru powered mid engined mrk 6 black escort project
11 April 2007, 07:42 PM
#62
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facinating stuff this
bit mad aswell
particularly like the 'no idea how it's going to handle yet' qoute
wish i had half the skill and brains to do this!!!
bit mad aswellparticularly like the 'no idea how it's going to handle yet' qoute
wish i had half the skill and brains to do this!!!
11 April 2007, 08:18 PM
#63
cheers guys, lol, yes i think it will handle ok with the engine being mounted quite far forward and with the suspension set up properly, im moving house soon so i need to get all the welding done so i can tow it, once its welded and painted im going to enjoy pluming and wiring in the engine and making an exhaust etc, ive brought the mrs an mr2 for the summer so i can get some ideas from that.. hehe
16 April 2007, 06:24 PM
#70
I need to get a bit of info now so i can start getting some bits together..
fuel tank.. If i get an alloy tank made up to fit under the bonnet can i just
fit the subaru fuel pump and sender unit to the new tank?
radiator.. Will the standard water pump be powerfull enough to pump
the water to the front and round the rad? im planning on buying
2 lenghts of alluminium tube to run under the car to the rad so
can i just buy it the same size as the rubber rad pipes or is it
better to reduce the size of it to make it flow better?
also do you think a standard subaru rad will be up to the job?
with the twin fans too?
what do you think?
fuel tank.. If i get an alloy tank made up to fit under the bonnet can i just
fit the subaru fuel pump and sender unit to the new tank?
radiator.. Will the standard water pump be powerfull enough to pump
the water to the front and round the rad? im planning on buying
2 lenghts of alluminium tube to run under the car to the rad so
can i just buy it the same size as the rubber rad pipes or is it
better to reduce the size of it to make it flow better?
also do you think a standard subaru rad will be up to the job?
with the twin fans too?
what do you think?
17 April 2007, 01:58 PM
#71
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No reason why the pump and sender won't work so long as new tank has the right threaded ports for in/return/sender/breather etc and is the same depth? Won't the Scooby tank fit under the bonnet for an easy fix??
Water pump should be Ok I'd think - plenty of projects have done extended pipes like this, I'd go for similar size bore to the main hoses & keep to stock Scoob rad. You could always supplement with an electric pump if it's not man enough??
Water pump should be Ok I'd think - plenty of projects have done extended pipes like this, I'd go for similar size bore to the main hoses & keep to stock Scoob rad. You could always supplement with an electric pump if it's not man enough??
17 April 2007, 02:27 PM
#72
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James, I would expect the Subaru rad with 2 fans should be ok. The long aluminium pipes should help lose heat as they flow rad fluid to and from the rad as well. Size wise in my Spyder when I had the Alfa flat four in it I used 28mm copper pipe for the coolant.
Are you plumbing in a heater circuit as well?
Biggest problem was in slow traffic. In a mid-engined car you don't get the airflow coming through the radiator and passing over the engine to move the hot underbonnet air out like in a front engined car. I know stuff like MR2's and MGF's run a cooling fan to move air over the engine when it gets hot.
Are you plumbing in a heater circuit as well?
Biggest problem was in slow traffic. In a mid-engined car you don't get the airflow coming through the radiator and passing over the engine to move the hot underbonnet air out like in a front engined car. I know stuff like MR2's and MGF's run a cooling fan to move air over the engine when it gets hot.
17 April 2007, 04:15 PM
#73
No reason why the pump and sender won't work so long as new tank has the right threaded ports for in/return/sender/breather etc and is the same depth? Won't the Scooby tank fit under the bonnet for an easy fix??
Water pump should be Ok I'd think - plenty of projects have done extended pipes like this, I'd go for similar size bore to the main hoses & keep to stock Scoob rad. You could always supplement with an electric pump if it's not man enough??
Water pump should be Ok I'd think - plenty of projects have done extended pipes like this, I'd go for similar size bore to the main hoses & keep to stock Scoob rad. You could always supplement with an electric pump if it's not man enough??
17 April 2007, 04:23 PM
#74
James, I would expect the Subaru rad with 2 fans should be ok. The long aluminium pipes should help lose heat as they flow rad fluid to and from the rad as well. Size wise in my Spyder when I had the Alfa flat four in it I used 28mm copper pipe for the coolant.
Are you plumbing in a heater circuit as well?
Biggest problem was in slow traffic. In a mid-engined car you don't get the airflow coming through the radiator and passing over the engine to move the hot underbonnet air out like in a front engined car. I know stuff like MR2's and MGF's run a cooling fan to move air over the engine when it gets hot.
Are you plumbing in a heater circuit as well?
Biggest problem was in slow traffic. In a mid-engined car you don't get the airflow coming through the radiator and passing over the engine to move the hot underbonnet air out like in a front engined car. I know stuff like MR2's and MGF's run a cooling fan to move air over the engine when it gets hot.
Yes im plumbing in the heater too, havnt really thought about that yet though, will these also need to be run under the car too or could i plumb them off the rad pipes at the front? or at least just the return heater hose.
post up some pics of yours mate if you could.
17 April 2007, 04:23 PM
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> can i just buy it the same size as the rubber rad pipes or is it
> better to reduce the size of it to make it flow better?
Nope definetely not smaller. You've got much longer pipe runs and you're rightly worried about the ability of the pump to move the water the longer distance. Longer lengths mean more pressure drop along the pipe due to friction losses so less pressure to drive the water through the radiator.
If you reduce the diameter the velocity will go up and so the pressure drop will go up even further. Flow through the radiator will reduce which is the last thing you want.
With longer lengths you really want a bigger diameter not smaller but if that's not practical then stick with the same. You can always switch to an electric water pump if the standard ones not up to the job with the longer pipe runs.
> better to reduce the size of it to make it flow better?
Nope definetely not smaller. You've got much longer pipe runs and you're rightly worried about the ability of the pump to move the water the longer distance. Longer lengths mean more pressure drop along the pipe due to friction losses so less pressure to drive the water through the radiator.
If you reduce the diameter the velocity will go up and so the pressure drop will go up even further. Flow through the radiator will reduce which is the last thing you want.
With longer lengths you really want a bigger diameter not smaller but if that's not practical then stick with the same. You can always switch to an electric water pump if the standard ones not up to the job with the longer pipe runs.
17 April 2007, 05:05 PM
#76
> can i just buy it the same size as the rubber rad pipes or is it
> better to reduce the size of it to make it flow better?
Nope definetely not smaller. You've got much longer pipe runs and you're rightly worried about the ability of the pump to move the water the longer distance. Longer lengths mean more pressure drop along the pipe due to friction losses so less pressure to drive the water through the radiator.
If you reduce the diameter the velocity will go up and so the pressure drop will go up even further. Flow through the radiator will reduce which is the last thing you want.
With longer lengths you really want a bigger diameter not smaller but if that's not practical then stick with the same. You can always switch to an electric water pump if the standard ones not up to the job with the longer pipe runs.
> better to reduce the size of it to make it flow better?
Nope definetely not smaller. You've got much longer pipe runs and you're rightly worried about the ability of the pump to move the water the longer distance. Longer lengths mean more pressure drop along the pipe due to friction losses so less pressure to drive the water through the radiator.
If you reduce the diameter the velocity will go up and so the pressure drop will go up even further. Flow through the radiator will reduce which is the last thing you want.
With longer lengths you really want a bigger diameter not smaller but if that's not practical then stick with the same. You can always switch to an electric water pump if the standard ones not up to the job with the longer pipe runs.
, i didnt realise this but i know what your saying, the rad pipes are roughly 35-40mm so i will just use the same size all the way through then.
21 April 2007, 02:18 PM
#81
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correct web link
James, Am looking at one of the external Bosch ones myself
eBay.co.uk Shop - Road Race Rally: Bosch Fuel Pumps: NEW BOSCH 0580254040 FUEL PUMP SKYLINE,WRX,EVO,SUPRA
As regards a fuel tank what about one from a Mr 2 Turbo. I assume they are up front? Just check the wifes new Mr 2 should be easy for you
eBay.co.uk Shop - Road Race Rally: Bosch Fuel Pumps: NEW BOSCH 0580254040 FUEL PUMP SKYLINE,WRX,EVO,SUPRA
As regards a fuel tank what about one from a Mr 2 Turbo. I assume they are up front? Just check the wifes new Mr 2 should be easy for you
Last edited by Spyder550; 21 April 2007 at 08:28 PM.
22 April 2007, 07:50 AM
#83
James, Am looking at one of the external Bosch ones myself
eBay.co.uk Shop - Road Race Rally: Bosch Fuel Pumps: NEW BOSCH 0580254040 FUEL PUMP SKYLINE,WRX,EVO,SUPRA
As regards a fuel tank what about one from a Mr 2 Turbo. I assume they are up front? Just check the wifes new Mr 2 should be easy for you
eBay.co.uk Shop - Road Race Rally: Bosch Fuel Pumps: NEW BOSCH 0580254040 FUEL PUMP SKYLINE,WRX,EVO,SUPRA
As regards a fuel tank what about one from a Mr 2 Turbo. I assume they are up front? Just check the wifes new Mr 2 should be easy for you
ive already been there Guy, i couldnt find the tank on the mr2 i can only presume that it runs longways down the car underneath the centre console so it wont be anygood to me, ive ordered a 6 gallon alloy tank now anyway so that should fit in just nice, as for the fuel pump ive ordered a walbro universal in line jobby from the states, its worked out to £75 including shipping cost and its got a good flow rate of 255 litres per hour,
22 April 2007, 10:06 AM
#84
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Yep, you are correct, just did a google search and the tank in a "Mr 2" is in the centre tunnel. Kind of makes sense, looking at the height of the tunnel compared to what it needs to be. Only needs to be high enough to take some coolant pipes, and gearshift cables. If I recall from my scrapyard vist the gearshift cables are actually on top of the centre tunnel, at least some of the way back to the engine.
Regards gear shifting myself, am still undecided but Saker seem to use a rod linkage.
Regards gear shifting myself, am still undecided but Saker seem to use a rod linkage.
22 April 2007, 02:31 PM
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Nice to see someone else doing a mid engined project!
Looking good!
I should think the weight balance will be quite good, the EJ20 is very light and an escort must have a fair bit of extra weight in the front end/scuttle area.
I weighed my cinquecento shell after I'd stripped it, roughly 100kg over the back axle, 200kg over the front. That was with the glass and all the panels.
Good luck with it, if you need ideas maybe join locostbuilders.co.uk and post it in the middy section there.
Mark
Looking good!
I should think the weight balance will be quite good, the EJ20 is very light and an escort must have a fair bit of extra weight in the front end/scuttle area.
I weighed my cinquecento shell after I'd stripped it, roughly 100kg over the back axle, 200kg over the front. That was with the glass and all the panels.
Good luck with it, if you need ideas maybe join locostbuilders.co.uk and post it in the middy section there.
Mark
22 April 2007, 02:42 PM
#86
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oh ps,
I might be able to make you a tank as I make signs for a living at the moment - so lots of ally fabrication. One thought I had though was you could perhaps make a steel tank and weld in a section cut from a scooby tank - just the bit which the pump/pickup mounts to. Obviously the tank would need to be the same depth for the pickup and level sensor to work.
Or look at Cosworth/Sierra 4x4/Granada V6/etc pumps - lots going cheap on ebay (usually not if they have Cosworth in the title!). They're an external pump and I'd be suprised if the pressure and flow ratings weren't sufficient.
I might be able to make you a tank as I make signs for a living at the moment - so lots of ally fabrication. One thought I had though was you could perhaps make a steel tank and weld in a section cut from a scooby tank - just the bit which the pump/pickup mounts to. Obviously the tank would need to be the same depth for the pickup and level sensor to work.
Or look at Cosworth/Sierra 4x4/Granada V6/etc pumps - lots going cheap on ebay (usually not if they have Cosworth in the title!). They're an external pump and I'd be suprised if the pressure and flow ratings weren't sufficient.
22 April 2007, 03:31 PM
#87
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Nice to see someone else doing a mid engined project!
Looking good!
I should think the weight balance will be quite good, the EJ20 is very light and an escort must have a fair bit of extra weight in the front end/scuttle area.
I weighed my cinquecento shell after I'd stripped it, roughly 100kg over the back axle, 200kg over the front. That was with the glass and all the panels.
Good luck with it, if you need ideas maybe join locostbuilders.co.uk and post it in the middy section there.
Mark
Looking good!
I should think the weight balance will be quite good, the EJ20 is very light and an escort must have a fair bit of extra weight in the front end/scuttle area.
I weighed my cinquecento shell after I'd stripped it, roughly 100kg over the back axle, 200kg over the front. That was with the glass and all the panels.
Good luck with it, if you need ideas maybe join locostbuilders.co.uk and post it in the middy section there.
Mark
Taken above photo taken last year before my new goodies arrived
22 April 2007, 03:36 PM
#88
Yep, you are correct, just did a google search and the tank in a "Mr 2" is in the centre tunnel. Kind of makes sense, looking at the height of the tunnel compared to what it needs to be. Only needs to be high enough to take some coolant pipes, and gearshift cables. If I recall from my scrapyard vist the gearshift cables are actually on top of the centre tunnel, at least some of the way back to the engine.
Regards gear shifting myself, am still undecided but Saker seem to use a rod linkage.
Regards gear shifting myself, am still undecided but Saker seem to use a rod linkage.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...tickshift2.jpg
Even if we did decide to use the mr2 shift cables theres no way they are long enough so they would need to be joined up to some other cables, it would be nice to make up a solid gear mechanism like the ones in the saker cars but it would be a lot more work to get it right, i know that "carbuildingsolutions" sell universal gear linkages so it might be worth considering. I carnt really do anything yet untill my gearbox kit comes so as soon as the geabox is mounted in im going to sort out the gear linkage.
22 April 2007, 03:42 PM
#89
oh ps,
I might be able to make you a tank as I make signs for a living at the moment - so lots of ally fabrication. One thought I had though was you could perhaps make a steel tank and weld in a section cut from a scooby tank - just the bit which the pump/pickup mounts to. Obviously the tank would need to be the same depth for the pickup and level sensor to work.
Or look at Cosworth/Sierra 4x4/Granada V6/etc pumps - lots going cheap on ebay (usually not if they have Cosworth in the title!). They're an external pump and I'd be suprised if the pressure and flow ratings weren't sufficient.
I might be able to make you a tank as I make signs for a living at the moment - so lots of ally fabrication. One thought I had though was you could perhaps make a steel tank and weld in a section cut from a scooby tank - just the bit which the pump/pickup mounts to. Obviously the tank would need to be the same depth for the pickup and level sensor to work.
Or look at Cosworth/Sierra 4x4/Granada V6/etc pumps - lots going cheap on ebay (usually not if they have Cosworth in the title!). They're an external pump and I'd be suprised if the pressure and flow ratings weren't sufficient.
james
22 April 2007, 04:25 PM
#90
james