///\oo/\\\

As standard, the teg has much better brakes, is much better balanced, will generate more lateral grip, has much more sophisticated suspension (double wishbones all round), a lower roll centre has significantly lower transmission losses and an LSD. Its also significantly lighter and has much better spaced gears with a signiificantly lower final drive.

Its engine will happily be thrashed every single day - it was designed for that from the ground up - and will be significantly more reliable than the Impreza.

In all but exiting slower corners the two wheel drive will be no handicap, and would, in most cases, be faster than the Impreza in the hands of a driver of equal ability.

So, yes, no comparison really

94impreza

Just to add i paid £2700 for my 94JDM last November. Since then i have modded the exterior which mainly was down to a few can's of primer/spray paint/laquer. I've spent probably £400 on changing its exterior and would hope if i sold it i would probably get around £3k, meaning a loss of £100 over 1 year i could even possibly gain.
I regularly check auto-trader, Ebay and scoobynet on similar models for sale and see no depreciation in comparison to mine. I'm not sure the same can be said for the later scoobs.
Also with the subaru you have the Wagon, UK turbo, the WRX, Terzo, Type-R, P1 to name just a few of the differing models. Whereas the ITR just seems to be the ITR, i've not heard anything of a base model or a more exotic higher powered rarer model.

I was interested in the ITR when i thought they were rwd, i've owned fwd and obviously a 4wd car and was thinking about what it'd be like to own a rwd. Now i know they are fwd i have no interest....

94impreza

Significantly lighter? Car Stats - Front Wheel Drive has them down as about 1100-1180 kg whereas i believe a classic is around 1200kg, not really a massive difference.
Scoobs have gay brakes but as i've said engine breaking compensates for a competent driver, a higher revving engine with a lighter crank wouldn't really benefit from the same.
Whats more likely to spin off a corner/roundabout a 4wd or a fwd, no matter how sophisticated the set up?.
Whats more likely to spin the wheels under hard acceleration a 4wd or a fwd?

On the same thread on the itr forum a member owns both, and considering he's posting on an ITR forum you'd assume he'd sway a little more toward the ITR but basically said in all scenario's the scoob would be superior.

Roojai

Drive one and then decide.

On track, the ITR will corner quicker.

Driving an ITR is not as quick as a scoob to get from A to B but it is more involving and more fun.

There is nor 5 door version etc, if you want that then don't get a ITR.

A 9 year old UK ITR or a 12 year old JDM costs £6000, similar age scoobs cost around £3500, obvious which holds it value.

Plus, it is a much rarer car.

Weight of a 96 spec JDM in standard trim 1060 KG

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

94 Impreza....you're completely missing the point.
Did I say I wanted a 'faster car' (ie more power), no.
I originally said that 'I' had always wanted one, and since I was being offered a very decent amount of money (£1500 profit in 9months), I felt the time was right.

As for the 'engine-braking' comment, I don't think you really know what you're talking about. If you have more engine braking, you're going to need more power to accelerate.
The brakes on the Integra are in a different league, especially when compared to the cr%apy early 2 pots.

Traction is a bit more of an issue, but its all about control. The lsd is very good on the teg and it allows you to start building power sooner when existing a corner. With the Impreza, I had to wait, wait, wait...full power.

Throttle response is also far crisper on the integra, allowing for more precision when corning.

Cheap insurance, no nasty reputation, 30mpg, cheap servicing, tyres, brakes etc.

Its a shame because many like yourself, assume that because its fwd, its crap.

I don't care if you win in a traffic light grandprix, that has never really interested me.
All I know is that I'm driving a future classic sports car with superb handling, an awesome engine that loves to rev, and a reliability record that puts many run of mill hatchbacks to shame.

94impreza

Honda Integra Type-R (JDM import) 96 197 1101(weight) and thats from the above site, if they're wrong maybe they need to be set straight.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a '98 impreza for £3500, even a UK turbo for sale in the same road is up for £4500 same age, well over 100k mileage as well.
Obviously ITR's are rarer, but that can be viewed as a negative. You could look at the low number imported/built in the UK to mean there wasn't a great rush to buy them. Classic impreza's were imported in their thousands and still are because they are still a well desired car.
You also need to consider if something went wrong with your scoob there are so many breakers with scrapped scoobs, i think you'd struggle to find a second hand part for an ITR in comparison to a scoob.

94impreza

Chris engine braking is coming to a corner dropping down a gear or 2 to put more pressure on the engine thus slowing down. If a car is rev-happy and is constantly redlined just to get anywhere i highly doubt there would be any engine braking at all. A less revvy engine is going to slow a lot quicker, simple. Besides its fairly easy and fairly common to upgrade your scoobs brakes, its not really a major issue.
I have the greatest amount of respect for the ITR, and i'm not saying that they are far from the performance of a scoob i'd assume they'd give a scoob a run for their money, but its silly to think an ITR unless in the hands of a far better driver would have any advantage over a scoob.
I'm not saying all you want is performance, but i'd imagine after a few months of screaming your engine it'd become a tad annoying. Then your not really left with any options, except to sell it whereas with a scoob you have many many options or routes to go down.

I like ITR's, i'd consider owning one and if you read my thread on the ITR you'd see i was thinking about the swap, much in the same position as the original post here. But i'd be under no illusion that they were as quick as a scoob, and i'd find myself regretting my decision, maybe not straight away but i know i would.
Each to their own, but lets not pretend an ITR would seriously give a JDM WRX a run for its money, maybe a UK.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

94impreza, what is your point here? You are posting and posting in a 'methinks he does protest too much' manner.

Look I have until very recently run a Scoob and DC2 ITR back to back. yes every day I went out of my house I could jump in one or the other and it has been that way for 3 years so I know a bit about them and the differences between them.

Until you have properly driven a DC2 I don't think you can comment. A to B in the real world there really isn't much in it, what the ITR lacks in power it makes up for in handling. Round a track all things being equal I think you might get a shock as your beloved Scoob may well find itself on the losing side albeit not by much.

The Scoob is very easy to drive quickly and is a fantastic car for the money, but the DC2 is ultimately more rewarding as you have to put a bit more effort in, but the car is so well set up and balanced that a spirited drive leaves a huge smile on your face.

As for value I think the DC2 will only appreciate in much the same way the AE86 Corolla has whereas there are so many Scoobs around that I can't see anything but a downward trend for the prices except for one or two of the specials maybe.

94impreza

Not at all, in the past couple of weeks i've been thinking about doing the same. After doing a bit of research asking what the pro's and con's of an ITR are i fail to see a major reason for chopping in my scoob for an ITR, much the same as this thread.
With a scoob you have more options to upgrade should you choose to go down that road, with an ITR especially as its fwd your limited. With an ITR i would assume finding parts for a rare car either new or s/h would be harder and possibly more expensive.
If the guy in question owned a fiesta then of course he should upgrade, owning a scoob then getting an ITR to me is a step down, no matter how small a step its still a step down.
OK so thrashing your ITR might put a grin on your face, but how often are you going to do that?. A scoob can be driven under 4k with some pace, without any effort and when you want to you can open it up really nail it and also have a grin. With a scoob you have the option...
Weighing up the pro's and con's i decided its not for me. I'd miss the ease the of the scoob, let alone the ease/cost of repairing or the ease/cost of slowly upgrading.

Maybe one day if i get rich enough i'd have an ITR as track car, because its more likely thats where i'd get the best out of it. But for day to day driving i'd get very annoyed having to thrash it just to get to work. Sorry but i have looked into it, and its not for me.
Even an ITR owner should admit a scoob ticks a lot of boxes, and i don't doubt the ITR ticks a few the scoob doesn't but as an all round car the scoob is obviously the better choice. The popularity of the scoob in comparison to the rarity of the ITR says it all really, if they would fly out of the showroom then Honda would have made more.

chief-long-shin

Just on the back of the getting 2nd hand parts things it wouldnt be a huge huge issue if it was engine parts. Being a honda owner previously and being a good friend of a honda parts imnporter you will find that most ITR are interchangeable with a UK civic 1.8vti. They both use the B18 block and from what i recall they are near identical bar things such as cam profiles.

For other parts then yes i agree there could be "some" difficulty in getting hold of things.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well in reality you don't have to thrash it, but it makes you want to

Step down my ***

Anyway it it's not for you no worries, but why post over and over on here then. Chris has made his step down and loves it and I know exactly where he is coming from so best of luck to him.

94impreza

I had no idea they used the same block elsewhere. Buying from Honda themselves though i would say would be expensive, i know their original bike parts are way way over-priced.
Put it this way i'm on my 3rd radiator, i got s/h one's very quicky for £80 on average, could the same be said for an ITR?.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

They only stopped making the car in 2000 which is about the same time they stopped making the 'classic' Scoob and I don't hear anyone complaining about parts for that. As far as I know parts aren't a problem.

94impreza

I've posted in reply to people, just as i am now. People have asked me this and that and i have answered. Yes each to their own as i said, but i don't think it'd be that long before he starts to regret the change.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

He won't and when he does eventually come to sell he will be quids in, not something you can say about a Scoob as I know only too well.

94impreza

Unless something went seriously wrong i have no intention of selling. If i wanted more power i'd upgrade it, and with a wider community and the large options in front of you it wouldn't be the hardest thing to do.
I've also already said with a little care and attention i would expect to either break even if i sold it, possibly even make a little.
Its easy to weigh up pro's and con's and once you've owned a scoob it'd be very difficult to find a car which "ticks as many boxes". There are obviously pro's of owning an ITR over a scoob, but in all honesty there are far more pro's for owning a scoob over an ITR.

///\oo/\\\

How can you possibly know that unless you have owned both??

Of course, you cannot, and are merely speculating based upon what you assume to be the case.

You are, therefore, not qualified to comment.

delcbr

iam sure the teg is a great car but its not my cup of tea my pal who owns and thrashes his complains of its awful fuel consumption he took me out a 5 min blast then said that prob cost him a £5 in super lol
it is very raw but he did comment that the alfa i think 147 turbo diesel has just as good handling which i have been in and was quicker in traffic as it power was instant where as you need to rev the c**t out the teg to get the power.he had the 147 as a company car for a while.
i think a scoob is easy to go fast in as rtegards to the engine whereas you need to scream everylast bit out the teg.
i wasnt impressed in my 1st outing in his teg acceleration wise but after he removed everything from front seats back it made a noticeable difference to the acceleration!!! il need to get another ride in it as hes had a lightened flywheel fitted.
anyone seen this now were talking Mazda : MAZDA 323 GT-R i think hes exagerating the power but maybe not??

94impreza

Ok i haven't owned one but when the idea of getting one entered my head i asked on the ITR forum the pro's and con's. Rather than going out and buying one and then realising it wasn't for me i decided to do my research, and who better to ask than the ITR forum members?. For me the pro's would be lower insurance, better (possibly) MPG, and apparently the handling. For me 3 advantages of owning an ITR over a scoob.
In my opinion the advantages of scoobs over ITR's are how easy it is to upgrade, the 4wd, the low price of getting parts, how easy it is to find parts, how easy it is to use as an everyday family car, how its then able to be lots of fun on open roads, the community (well most of it), the burble, the turbo throwing you back in your seat etc etc etc.
For me the advantages of the ITR weren't enough to change. For other people it they might be.

delcbr

hate it when ppl say "but you havent owned one so you cant really comment" well i say b******s a previous poster done his research and asked itr owners about their cars and used their views on here and other ppl like myself have a friend who owns one and used their comments or our own views of being in one so whats wrong with that?
there howd you like them apples
while iam on the subject car enthusiasts say your not a real petrol head unless youve owned an alfaromeo well b******S to that as well as their never out the garage for warranty work and once that warranty runs out youve lost a s**t load on depreciation now tell me why i should own an alfaromeo now.
have a nice day.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Because with a car like the Integra, particularly coming from a Scoob, you have to drive one for a while before you 'get it'. Anyone hopping out of a Scoob and going for a quick blat in an ITR is going to be unimpressed until they realise how to drive them and what they are about. There, now settle down

Roojai

94impreza, I went from 2 years ownership of a 94 WRX modified to close to 300BHP to my ITR, and I have no regrets.

I like scoobs, and may get another one some day, but at the moment I find the ITR the better all-round car because of the cheaper running costs. I can use it for trackdays and fast-road motoring if I want but I can also save money in day to day driving. You do not need to thrash it unless you want to go really quick.

The engine braking thing does not make any sense. Putting it into a low gear and slowing from 8700rpm in the ITR has the same effect as slowing from 6000rpm in the scoob.

There are a few specialist breakers in the UK that do parts quite cheap, but the thing about these cars is you hardly need any. I bought an ABS pump unit and modulator (ie the main unit) for £40 delivered. Many of the shared parts are quite cheap, even from Honda eg front discs are £50 each from honda. I got a new clutch put into mine for £200 including labour. The clutch kit was only £125 and that includes spring and bearing.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

94impreza, your logic baffles me!
Engine braking is exactly that, not using anything else to slow down.If we were talking 50 years ago when every car was using drum brakes, then your argument would carry more weight. Have you ever lifted off at 70mph and watched how slowly you decelerate?
Engine braking does not enter the equation. Think about it, if there were any benifits to be had from better 'engine-braking', all ferrari's would have 30KG flywheels fitted!
Race cars have the lightest flywheels possibly due to the benifits of a free revving engine. This means that the engine will have better pickup, use less fuel and be more sympathetic on other parts of the car (gearbox, brakes, suspension).
That really is a pathetic arguement to use against any car.

As for the price of parts, have you been to a subaru dealer lately? £800 for a clutch change, £300 to change a cambelt, £400 to change all the fluids, plugs and filters, £100 per brakes disc!
Subaru charge £80 per hour, Honda charge £60 per hour.
In EVERY area, the Integra works out a lot cheaper to run. Unless ofcourse you want to start modifying, but even with the impreza its not clear cut. If you up the power you need to upgrade the transmission, brakes, cooling, suspension, service it more frequently etc etc.

Also, I'm comparing the teg to a 280bhp uk scoob, not a standard one. With 0-60mph the scooby wins, 60-100mph the integra is 0.2 seconds quicker. Fact.

Don't get me wrong, I love Imprezas, especially having owned an sti 4(310bhp) for 2 years and then a UK turbo (280bhp) for a year. But, I fancied a change. I think at 21, I thought power was everything and boll*cks to everything else. How wrong I was!

It's the whole package that makes a car great, not one particular area.
In my opinion, the impreza was and will also be a 'great' car. The same applies to the integra, skyline, supra, mr2 turbo, rx7......I could be here all day. They each bring their own food to the party and they each have good and bad points.

Any petrolhead should NEVER knock a car before they drive it.

///\oo/\\\

Nor should anyone who thinks an Alfa 147 handles as well as an ITR ever open his gob to comment

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

With over 200 new members joining this site in the last week, there are bound to be a few numpties!
The best bit was, 'My mate........'
Always a bad way to start a 'which car is best' debate!

chief-long-shin

owning both a scoob and a honda extremely similar engine wise to a teg type r i personally would rather have my honda back.

Granted tyres were a monthly thing more or less lol, the speed wasnt as quick, maybe the status and the wave from other owners wasnt there. You dont have the thump of a turbo but you do have the absolute screaming of the engine saying "push me harder - i fooking dare you!!"

But.... There's a little spark in there that you cant quite put your finger on, just something that makes it a pleasure to drive, and when you enter the vtec - with you being at such high revs when most people are changing gear and your just coming alive - well thats just great fun. Its the naughty feeling you get when you see something you shouldnt lol.

I think thats what vtec is all about. - Just a little bit of magic.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

What he said!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

It takes a type r impreza to be just that bit quicker than the integra. Check out the braking though!
YouTube - car races 2

94impreza

Every proffesional racing driver engine-brakes, from MotoGP to touring car to F1. Don't believe me? next time you watch "on-board" as they approach a corner they will sequentially go down the box with the engine screaming to slow. However good your braking system is, adding engine-braking to the equation is going to slow you faster.
Its been said on here before that engine-braking in this day and age is a rarity, and even with modern 6-pot calipers and ceramic discs the best drivers in the world still use it to slow down, thats why motogp riders often leave black lines on the entrance to a corner and no its not because the brakes are locking up the back wheel .

I would imagine the drop per gear change in revs is higher on a scoob, as they don't have a closer ratio gearbox or an engine more likened to rev's. IE a gear change down on a scoob may see you jump 2k rev's whereas i would have thought an ITR has a lower drop of 1500 or so... can anyone answer that.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Why do racing driver's use heal and toe gear changes then. Just think about it.