They are with a nice TYPE 25 handling kit - plus you wont get any sense on here as it is a Subaru forum after all

 

Ok this is how i see it.

A lot of car mnufacturers chase that ceiling of BHP normlly at the expense of that lovely thing that gives you that feeling of shove - 'TORQUE' people go on about bhp per tonne well what about torque per tonne????

An M3 will be pretty pants at that i would imagine compared to a nice turbocharged engine like a Subaru or an Evo.

My lightly modded 280bhp classic has stood toe to toe with an E46 M3 up to 100 (ish) (ok it was a convertable) and yes he was trying, so something like a WR1 would i imagine destroy it and as for something like an RS6 which i have also had the pleasure of having some fun with - all of about 3 seconds to which he handed my *** on a plate, sorry but compared to a RS6 an M3 would not see which way an RS6 went.

Just my opinion


They are lovely cars btw - just not as fast as they are perceived to be.

 

With you there, in terms of having fun and being a challenge, my Impreza is nowhere near as fun, the new one I test drove this week is even worse. It was for sale at Ł22k, I would rather buy a used M3 for that, sorry no contest!

 

BHP will still give you performance you just have to work a bit harder to extract it, if you get caught in the wrong gear you are toast, but the flipside is scalpel sharp throttle response that most turbo charge motors can only dream of, my BMW mechanic used to call turbocharging 'lazy engineering'! No a BMW would not see which way an RS6 went but it costs a hell of a lot more money and is a more modern design and is also so dull it hurts plus an RS6 is more comaprable to an M5 anyway, the M3 is about to be replaced so let's see how that compares to the new Audi's for example...

 

Don't get me wrong... I love Scoobys, and have owned a couple in my time. And I did look into buying a Type 25 a year or two ago. But a choice between a Scooby or an M3 for sheer driving thrills... for me the BM wins.

 

I will agree the new M3 will be quite a performer (in a straight line at least)
However i reckon that sticking a V8 in a small 3 series will spoil the handling unless they make it super light and push it as far back into the bulkhead as possible, plus i can see it making it more heavy than it is already.

BTW my Subaru mechanic used to say BMW M cars were all noise and no action who gives a s*** about lazy engineering if it does the job.

Would he say an F40 is lazily engineered????


No offence mate

 

None taken, enjoying the debate as I love both marques.

To counter my own argument they have just brought out the 335i because they are having problem extracting the power they need to compete without making the car too heavy at the front. The new V8 going into the M3 is apparently very lightweight and set well back, unlike an Audi which has it engine hanging over the front wheels, and I have heard they are working hard to keep the weight down.
I do if it is just a case of 'how do we get more power, oh just slap a turbo on it that'll do the trick'. Ironically he is mainly a Ferrari mechanic who happened to have a passion for E30 M3s and he usually had at least one F40 in his workshop whenever I went down there and he used the say the same thing about them!

 

Your BMW mechanic is going to be out of work pretty shortly then when he tells his BMW customers that their Turbo Diesels,their 335I Petrols and the like are just lazy performers

Are you still trying to justify your expenditure on your M3 despite knowing about all it's flaws................come on,you know it's not all it's cracked up to be really,don't you..........................LOL???

 

He is an indy anyway so I think he is safe!

See my reply above as I end up arguing with myself I am not the one buying the car just enjoying the argument at the end of the day if someone put a M3 and a Subaru in front of me and said you can have one (forgetting running costs etc) I would take the M3 everytime primarily because I love RWD as it is the most fun, certainly not the fastest. Flaws make things interesting so yes warts and all...
BMW have resisted turbos for almost 30 years (after all they were first with a production turbo car) they have now realised that to compete with the big torque figures etc and keep front end weight down they had no choice but the twin turbo technology (or even the VW supercharger/turbo on small capacity) is the future, it may also have a dramatic effect on turbo diesels as you will get similar mpg figures but without the stench/small powerbands etc of said diesels...

 

One problem the new M3 will have!!!!! - the 335i Turbo - it will be a tuners delight, loads more midrange and expect to see 400bhp with a bit of fiddling.

 

Calm down,calm down LOL.


It is ironic really that BMW have always stated that turbocharging petrol engines is not something they would consider(not since the 2002tii)........................................an d now they have backtracked!!!

 

true and no discernable lag either

 

LOL I now have visions of men with perms...

all written with a

quite right too they have no choice really but turbos have come along way since the 2002turbo which really was all or nothing, I think with the small twin turbo approach you are getting close to best of both worlds, no lag/crisp response and big torque, I have been in an 335i (not driven) and boy is it fast I would have one over a 330d, cannot comment on 335d but I am not a huge fan of diesels even now and especially when bought new, why shell out thousands more on a diesel car, that might do 5mpg more than the petrol, it will take you years to make that back in petrol...rant rant rant off topic massively

 

I have been in both, the m3 corners way better, and a more complete car, do not rate the wr1, crap at cornering, steering is vague, too soft, get yourself a proper car, an evo 8 or 9,
Only scooby i would even consider is a spec c, very nice

 

some sense at last

 

What I was meaning by this is that the Scoob is a much more raw driving experience, no computer gizmos. Just an bloody good engine, 4 wheels and a chassis. Back to basic driving. I prefer it this way. Would love to have a go in an Arial Atom.

 

Had an Atom and it was fun,but only in small doses...................i only had it 3 weeks until the novelty wore off,however,it was quite some 3 weeks.It taught me a massive amount about weight,handling,feedback,driver input,oversteer,in fact you name it,and an Atom will teach you it.......................and after the M3 it was like a breath of fresh air............quite literally