WR1 or M3??
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Originally Posted by chippy17
it doesn't feel as quick because it's power delivery is linear as opposed to the boost feeling you get, I know I am defending M3s but i love both cars and if I were on a BMW forum I would be defending the Scoob! I have owned both.
The thing I have against Impreza's is they are too easy to drive, the challenge is not there, in other words they are almost too fast round b roads that sometimes I wish for RWD to keep the speed in check, whilst having more fun!
They are just so easy to get to know, I test drove a new 'hawk eye' yesterday and within 30mins I was bored, in four years of owning an M3 I was still getting to know the car...
The thing I have against Impreza's is they are too easy to drive, the challenge is not there, in other words they are almost too fast round b roads that sometimes I wish for RWD to keep the speed in check, whilst having more fun!
They are just so easy to get to know, I test drove a new 'hawk eye' yesterday and within 30mins I was bored, in four years of owning an M3 I was still getting to know the car...
Like you,i have owned both(plus a lot of others),and my Scoob i have bought purely and simply as a quick point to point car for the winter,i do not get precious about any particular marque,i just love cars and speed,it is just pointing out when a car is not as good(for whatever reason)as it is cracked up to be
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Originally Posted by paul2070
It,as always is personnel preference.................i have come to the (expensive)conclusion this year that torque suits my driving style and preference,and that is something that the M3 lacks,i also don't like to "have"to thrash cars to get the best from them.
The more i spend on a car,the more i (rightly?)expect from it,and for the amount i paid for mine,it never met my expectations................don't get me wrong,i still think BMW make some cracking cars(and i have owned 9),but i think the M3 misses the point,and in some areas,by quite some margin...............they have just made it too comfy when it should be raw(like a modern day E30 M3).
And i am sorry,but while there are very few cars without some flaws,on a high end,top of the range performance car,should the brakes be a "flaw"?
It is not hard to get a decent braking setup on a car as standard,and for less money...............the (standard) brakes i had on my Focus RS never once felt like they would fail me through fade despite my very best efforts!!
I also think that when a lot of owners buy cars like the M3,they don't want to admit that the car is flawed after spending all that money.
As i say,each to their own
The more i spend on a car,the more i (rightly?)expect from it,and for the amount i paid for mine,it never met my expectations................don't get me wrong,i still think BMW make some cracking cars(and i have owned 9),but i think the M3 misses the point,and in some areas,by quite some margin...............they have just made it too comfy when it should be raw(like a modern day E30 M3).
And i am sorry,but while there are very few cars without some flaws,on a high end,top of the range performance car,should the brakes be a "flaw"?
It is not hard to get a decent braking setup on a car as standard,and for less money...............the (standard) brakes i had on my Focus RS never once felt like they would fail me through fade despite my very best efforts!!
I also think that when a lot of owners buy cars like the M3,they don't want to admit that the car is flawed after spending all that money.
As i say,each to their own
I am with you on the brakes they leave a lot to be desired.
Originally Posted by paul2070
The more i spend on a car,the more i (rightly?)expect from it,and for the amount i paid for mine,it never met my expectations................don't get me wrong,i still think BMW make some cracking cars(and i have owned 9),but i think the M3 misses the point,and in some areas,by quite some margin...............they have just made it too comfy when it should be raw(like a modern day E30 M3).
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I thought the BMW M5 was a better bet, the old one with 400BHP - they're available now for under 20k for a late 51 plate (private sale with FBSH)
note sure how the M5 compares against the Sti PPP or the WR1, it terms of performance and handling.
note sure how the M5 compares against the Sti PPP or the WR1, it terms of performance and handling.
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Originally Posted by paul2070
This "argument" could probably run and run,but you do sum it up yourself when you say "it doesn't feel as quick",surely THAT is the point,a quick car should FEEL quick????
Like you,i have owned both(plus a lot of others),and my Scoob i have bought purely and simply as a quick point to point car for the winter,i do not get precious about any particular marque,i just love cars and speed,it is just pointing out when a car is not as good(for whatever reason)as it is cracked up to be
Like you,i have owned both(plus a lot of others),and my Scoob i have bought purely and simply as a quick point to point car for the winter,i do not get precious about any particular marque,i just love cars and speed,it is just pointing out when a car is not as good(for whatever reason)as it is cracked up to be
I am with you on the rest I bought a Scoob for basically the same reasons as you but it is not as much fun and as a day to day car in the muddy back roads, great car. But when i am not in the mood for hooning around frankly the comfort, build quality and cruisability of the M3 is far superior.
Regards the M3 there is certainly a mix of opinion from both magazines and people of actually own them, some good and some bad, to many it more than lives up to the hype...
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Originally Posted by chippy17
perhaps I am getting old but new cars leave me cold! For one reason they are too fat! I think that is part of the problem with the E46, it weighs 1570kgs!!!! That means the torque figure, which is not amazing in the first place, has all this lard to carry around, which will then effect the handling as well, I mean the new Clio 197 weighs 1240kgs ffs, more than a clasic Impreza, but comfort is what people want (as well as safety) so cars are getting fat, much like the nation. BMW must peruse sales and they sold a hell of a lot more E46 M3s than E30 M3s, but they still wanted to get that E30 buyer hence the CSL, but even the Impreza's have got lardy!
I am with you on the brakes they leave a lot to be desired.
I am with you on the brakes they leave a lot to be desired.
issue,manufacturers think that more BHP is THE solution(new M5 anyone),but less weight is more the point,especially when it comes to feel.After my M3 i bought a Seat Leon Cupra R(family) and an Ariel Atom(for me
),and the Atom teaches you soooooo much about weight,or the lack of it,as with just relatively modest power outputs,that car absolutely flies.With the Leon,i had it remapped and a couple of other bits and pieces,but the major change to the way the whole car felt was to the wheels,when i changed them for some lighter ones.................the car came alive!!!
Renault say there will be a 197 Cup......................fantastic,BUT it will probably still weigh more than the previous Clio 182 BEFORE the Cup Pack,not so good!!!
There is a Polo Cup available in Germany that "won't be cominh here"(yeah right),but i am sure it will weigh as much,if not more than a MK2 Golf GTI,again,not good!!!
There is no point bringing out a new car,selling "us" the performance model,then telling "us" that they are bringing out a better performance model "coz it's lighter",when in fact it is still heavier than the previous model it replaces
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From: Scoobysprint Privateers Champion 09
I have an M3 now and used to have an sti with the TSL333 pack on it, When i bought the M3 i did miss the hit of the turbo from the sti but the M3 pulls better at the top end (8K redline).In a straight line the M3 is faster as i took them both to santa pod to do the 1/4 mile,the sti crossed the line at 103mph and the M3 managed 107mph
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AUDI RS6
CLK 55 AMG
MR 340 + ECUTEC
CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS ABOVE .ALL QUICKER CARS IF THATS WHAT YOUR AFTER.THE TOP 2 HAVE THE SPEED AND THE TOYS.
I DO THINK THE M3 LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
CONFUSED ? I HOPE SO.
CLK 55 AMG
MR 340 + ECUTEC
CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS ABOVE .ALL QUICKER CARS IF THATS WHAT YOUR AFTER.THE TOP 2 HAVE THE SPEED AND THE TOYS.
I DO THINK THE M3 LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
CONFUSED ? I HOPE SO.
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From: Manchester
Originally Posted by THOMO
AUDI RS6
CLK 55 AMG
MR 340 + ECUTEC
CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS ABOVE .ALL QUICKER CARS IF THATS WHAT YOUR AFTER.THE TOP 2 HAVE THE SPEED AND THE TOYS.
I DO THINK THE M3 LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
CONFUSED ? I HOPE SO.
CLK 55 AMG
MR 340 + ECUTEC
CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS ABOVE .ALL QUICKER CARS IF THATS WHAT YOUR AFTER.THE TOP 2 HAVE THE SPEED AND THE TOYS.
I DO THINK THE M3 LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
CONFUSED ? I HOPE SO.
Why on earth would he consider the above when he can go JDM spec c style!!!
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Originally Posted by THOMO
AUDI RS6
CLK 55 AMG
MR 340 + ECUTEC
CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS ABOVE .ALL QUICKER CARS IF THATS WHAT YOUR AFTER.THE TOP 2 HAVE THE SPEED AND THE TOYS.
I DO THINK THE M3 LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
CONFUSED ? I HOPE SO.
CLK 55 AMG
MR 340 + ECUTEC
CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS ABOVE .ALL QUICKER CARS IF THATS WHAT YOUR AFTER.THE TOP 2 HAVE THE SPEED AND THE TOYS.
I DO THINK THE M3 LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
CONFUSED ? I HOPE SO.
The Merc,as with most things AMG are quick in a straight line(afterall,they certainly do not lack power),but i would suspect the problems the M3 undoubtedly has,the Merc would compound even further.
Cannot really criticise the Evo though(but i bet a lot of others on here can
)......................apart of course from the 4.5k service intervals,the economy(even compared with the Scoob),and it's appetite for most consumables
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The M3 was introduced in 2001 so it's over 6 years old in design stakes. To get 343bhp out of a NA 6 pot engine is some feat.
The first time I drove one I did'nt get it at all, it didn't "feel" that fast, me being used to turbo cars. But I eventually bought a manual M3 CS and for the first month I hated it. I nearly sold it twice within that month.
But I persisted with it started to get more and more into the car.
After 6 months I thought it was one of the best cars I had ever owed.
Due to family commitments I sold it for a 535d, which in it's self is a great car, I always yearned after another M3.
So tomorrow I pickup my second M3 CS but this time with SMG, Nav, TV and Bluetooth.
I have looked at both the MY06 Sti and had Evo 340's but once used to the quality and refinment of the BMW's it's difficult to go back to what is just a "tinny Japanise saloon". And before you flame me Evo mags words not mine.
The first time I drove one I did'nt get it at all, it didn't "feel" that fast, me being used to turbo cars. But I eventually bought a manual M3 CS and for the first month I hated it. I nearly sold it twice within that month.
But I persisted with it started to get more and more into the car.
After 6 months I thought it was one of the best cars I had ever owed.
Due to family commitments I sold it for a 535d, which in it's self is a great car, I always yearned after another M3.
So tomorrow I pickup my second M3 CS but this time with SMG, Nav, TV and Bluetooth.
I have looked at both the MY06 Sti and had Evo 340's but once used to the quality and refinment of the BMW's it's difficult to go back to what is just a "tinny Japanise saloon". And before you flame me Evo mags words not mine.
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From: Edinburgh (ish)
Originally Posted by scoobytyson
I have an M3 now and used to have an sti with the TSL333 pack on it, When i bought the M3 i did miss the hit of the turbo from the sti but the M3 pulls better at the top end (8K redline).In a straight line the M3 is faster as i took them both to santa pod to do the 1/4 mile,the sti crossed the line at 103mph and the M3 managed 107mph
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From: Scoobysprint Privateers Champion 09
The M3 only weighs 1485kg so is about the same as the sti, the 1570kg bmw say it weighs is with a 75kg driver and some extra's.The scooby is better off the line due to 4wd but from around 60mph on the M3 is quicker.I managed a 1.8sec 60ft in the sti and a 2.1sec in the M3.
Originally Posted by PCM
Sorry but the MY05 is a better car in my opinion.The handling on a wr1 is very poor if you ask me.
O yeh and the M3 is sh#t
PCM
O yeh and the M3 is sh#t
PCM
My WR1 beat my mates 343bhp M3 with ease with the standard power.
Anders
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Originally Posted by THOMO
AUDI RS6
CLK 55 AMG
MR 340 + ECUTEC
CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS ABOVE .ALL QUICKER CARS IF THATS WHAT YOUR AFTER.THE TOP 2 HAVE THE SPEED AND THE TOYS.
I DO THINK THE M3 LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
CONFUSED ? I HOPE SO.
CLK 55 AMG
MR 340 + ECUTEC
CONSIDER THOSE OPTIONS ABOVE .ALL QUICKER CARS IF THATS WHAT YOUR AFTER.THE TOP 2 HAVE THE SPEED AND THE TOYS.
I DO THINK THE M3 LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM.
CONFUSED ? I HOPE SO.
Audi RS6 vs BMW M3 - Google Video
An M3 in a skillfull pair of hands
is every bit as quick, if not quicker than a Scooby. I know I've owned both. Boils down to personal preference which is best and what you'd prefer.
Originally Posted by scoobytyson
Can your mate drive? You have to rev them to 8K to get the best out of them
Anders
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Originally Posted by scoobytyson
The M3 only weighs 1485kg so is about the same as the sti, the 1570kg bmw say it weighs is with a 75kg driver and some extra's.The scooby is better off the line due to 4wd but from around 60mph on the M3 is quicker.I managed a 1.8sec 60ft in the sti and a 2.1sec in the M3.
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Thread Starter
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From: Barnsley
So the M3 beat the RS6?!!! How?!?! On paper the RS4 kills it!!
I think I will terst drive both and see but I like the fact the M3's have luxury and power. Do they have the 'M' button or is it always on full 400bhp?
I think I will terst drive both and see but I like the fact the M3's have luxury and power. Do they have the 'M' button or is it always on full 400bhp?
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Originally Posted by Deano1983
So the M3 beat the RS6?!!! How?!?! On paper the RS4 kills it!!
I think I will terst drive both and see but I like the fact the M3's have luxury and power. Do they have the 'M' button or is it always on full 400bhp?
I think I will terst drive both and see but I like the fact the M3's have luxury and power. Do they have the 'M' button or is it always on full 400bhp?
Yes they do have a "Sport" button,but all this really does is sharpen throttle response slightly,and apparently also the steering...............it certainly does not add any more of what it really needs,which is power!!
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Originally Posted by paul2070
The M3's don't have 400bhp,they have 343bhp(apart from the CSL which had slightly more).
Yes they do have a "Sport" button,but all this really does is sharpen throttle response slightly,and apparently also the steering...............it certainly does not add any more of what it really needs,which is power!!
Yes they do have a "Sport" button,but all this really does is sharpen throttle response slightly,and apparently also the steering...............it certainly does not add any more of what it really needs,which is power!!
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I've got a 54 STi and last year was contemplating getting a 53 M3. No question the BMW is overall a better car (build quality, refinement, prestige), but because of this it lacks something. It just didn't have the same fun factor as the Scoob. It doesn't feel as fast as the Scoob either, probably because it's so refined. The turbo on the Scoob is so addictive, and when it kicks in it seems faster than the M3. The Scoob is much more of a Driver's car. The only thing I liked better about the M3 was the resonse of the steering, it's so precise.
As for the WR1, well that's faster than the M3 anyway (on paper at least). I haven't actually driven a WR1, but I've driven a STi with PPP. To be honest I prefer it without the PPP (I must be the only person in the world). The PPP smoothes out the turbo boost (ie it pulls better lower down so the turbo lag isn't as noticeable, but this makes the kick from the turbo less dramatic, and that's what I love about my car). Or at least that's what I found from the limited time I drove it. Admittedly I didn't get it onto any nice twisty roads where the Scoob really comes into its own.
As for the WR1, well that's faster than the M3 anyway (on paper at least). I haven't actually driven a WR1, but I've driven a STi with PPP. To be honest I prefer it without the PPP (I must be the only person in the world). The PPP smoothes out the turbo boost (ie it pulls better lower down so the turbo lag isn't as noticeable, but this makes the kick from the turbo less dramatic, and that's what I love about my car). Or at least that's what I found from the limited time I drove it. Admittedly I didn't get it onto any nice twisty roads where the Scoob really comes into its own.
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Originally Posted by paul2070
The M3's don't have 400bhp,they have 343bhp(apart from the CSL which had slightly more).
Yes they do have a "Sport" button,but all this really does is sharpen throttle response slightly,and apparently also the steering...............it certainly does not add any more of what it really needs,which is power!!
Yes they do have a "Sport" button,but all this really does is sharpen throttle response slightly,and apparently also the steering...............it certainly does not add any more of what it really needs,which is power!!
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Originally Posted by snerkler
I've got a 54 STi and last year was contemplating getting a 53 M3. No question the BMW is overall a better car (build quality, refinement, prestige), but because of this it lacks something. It just didn't have the same fun factor as the Scoob. It doesn't feel as fast as the Scoob either, probably because it's so refined. The turbo on the Scoob is so addictive, and when it kicks in it seems faster than the M3. The Scoob is much more of a Driver's car. The only thing I liked better about the M3 was the resonse of the steering, it's so precise.
As for the WR1, well that's faster than the M3 anyway (on paper at least). I haven't actually driven a WR1, but I've driven a STi with PPP. To be honest I prefer it without the PPP (I must be the only person in the world). The PPP smoothes out the turbo boost (ie it pulls better lower down so the turbo lag isn't as noticeable, but this makes the kick from the turbo less dramatic, and that's what I love about my car). Or at least that's what I found from the limited time I drove it. Admittedly I didn't get it onto any nice twisty roads where the Scoob really comes into its own.
As for the WR1, well that's faster than the M3 anyway (on paper at least). I haven't actually driven a WR1, but I've driven a STi with PPP. To be honest I prefer it without the PPP (I must be the only person in the world). The PPP smoothes out the turbo boost (ie it pulls better lower down so the turbo lag isn't as noticeable, but this makes the kick from the turbo less dramatic, and that's what I love about my car). Or at least that's what I found from the limited time I drove it. Admittedly I didn't get it onto any nice twisty roads where the Scoob really comes into its own.
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From: West Wales
I know its not a very complicated way of looking at it, but personally the M3 in question (Is it E46? not sure) sounds awful at full chat.
First noticed it with a M3 cab in a car park. Just let out this tinny noise that I found horrible. Now I'm looking for the noise, I've noticed they all do it.
It just sounds horrible to me. For that alone, I'd take Subaru (but I wouldn't have a WR1 either - overpriced for very litttle)
First noticed it with a M3 cab in a car park. Just let out this tinny noise that I found horrible. Now I'm looking for the noise, I've noticed they all do it.
It just sounds horrible to me. For that alone, I'd take Subaru (but I wouldn't have a WR1 either - overpriced for very litttle)