Predjudice against 4x4's
25 March 2006, 01:03 AM
#121
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Originally Posted by swaussie
I drove that Cayenne at 240kmh on an Autobahn and trust me, it couldnt have stopped in twice the distance of 90% of the cars on the road. To me it is disgusting that such a car have so much power and so little ability. 
...And a very good friend of mine is a test driver for BMW and they spent weeks in Dijon last year trying to get brakes for the X5 that wouldnt disintegrate in an emergency stop from top speed (seems to be a flaw), if you have an early one, I would be asking about newer brakes!!
If you need a 4wd than why not get a decent "off road vehicle" such as a Land rover Discovery and if you need to carry stuff than why not get a white van? But I guess thats not "COOL" enough??
Oh and as for the "cant afford it line".... Thats exactly what I meant about having to try and impress people with how much money you have. I bought my STi cash and I could have bought a Cayenne or X5 cash as well but I chose the STi for a few reasons namely safety, ability, fun and the fact its a 4 door. I did not choose it to impress anyone except myself.. "What other people think of me is none of my business"
...And a very good friend of mine is a test driver for BMW and they spent weeks in Dijon last year trying to get brakes for the X5 that wouldnt disintegrate in an emergency stop from top speed (seems to be a flaw), if you have an early one, I would be asking about newer brakes!! If you need a 4wd than why not get a decent "off road vehicle" such as a Land rover Discovery and if you need to carry stuff than why not get a white van? But I guess thats not "COOL" enough??
Oh and as for the "cant afford it line".... Thats exactly what I meant about having to try and impress people with how much money you have. I bought my STi cash and I could have bought a Cayenne or X5 cash as well but I chose the STi for a few reasons namely safety, ability, fun and the fact its a 4 door. I did not choose it to impress anyone except myself.. "What other people think of me is none of my business"
Finally a person with common sense.
25 March 2006, 01:23 AM
#122
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Originally Posted by AudiLover
Most rapists cant afford audi's.
My problem with SUV's are as follows:
1.Theyre estate counterparts are better than them in every respect apart from ride height, so your just wasting fuel.
My problem with SUV's are as follows:
1.Theyre estate counterparts are better than them in every respect apart from ride height, so your just wasting fuel.
Fuel which will run out in about 20 years. If no one drove a SUV and cars instead the fuel would last an extra 5 years.
2. They require more of everything. Twice as much rubber for their tyres for example. A waste.
3. They also hinder other drivers view of the road. Just imagine a great big SUV parked up next to you at a intersection. All you will see if metal right by your window. Its like how a man in a caterham must feel when parked up next to a mercedes E-class. Not nice.
4. Your SUV will take longer to break than their car equivelant. So when you come crashing into a single mothers VW golf you will most likely pulverise her but the SUV will probably be OK unless its a GM piece of ****e. Korean and chinese SUV's are less safe than a decent german car anyway.
A SUV which crashes into anything under 1400kg will most definelty cause serious injury to the other driver. But if they were both similiar sized cars then the damage would not be anywhere as great.
SUV drivers are selfish.
SUV drivers are selfish.
The Audi yuo are putting forward is Audis pitch at the SUV market, but because it has and Audi badge the blinker s are well and truely on. Trouble is, it doesn't tick the boxes that many SUV owners want ticking.
25 March 2006, 02:03 AM
#123
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Originally Posted by OllyK
We did this one earlier and you looked silly, do you really want to go there again?
Despite me giving you an SUV that did better than an existing Audi, you seem to ignore the fact that it 30 years and that's reserve. not till we run out.
Except the example you lost on earlier
Damn, ban vans, and trucks and add 150% to the purchase price of everything
Seeing as I haven't had an accident in the last ohhhh, well al the time I've been driving, that's a moot point
And the weight of the Audi you seem to love is....
The Audi yuo are putting forward is Audis pitch at the SUV market, but because it has and Audi badge the blinker s are well and truely on. Trouble is, it doesn't tick the boxes that many SUV owners want ticking.
Despite me giving you an SUV that did better than an existing Audi, you seem to ignore the fact that it 30 years and that's reserve. not till we run out.
Except the example you lost on earlier
Damn, ban vans, and trucks and add 150% to the purchase price of everything
Seeing as I haven't had an accident in the last ohhhh, well al the time I've been driving, that's a moot point
And the weight of the Audi you seem to love is....
The Audi yuo are putting forward is Audis pitch at the SUV market, but because it has and Audi badge the blinker s are well and truely on. Trouble is, it doesn't tick the boxes that many SUV owners want ticking.
Mte you didnt win **** stop trying to twist it. The audi allroad outperformed the X5 on every figure and 90% of the figures over the kia sporting so please take your head out your ****. The X5 is probably the best selling SUV in the country and a audi A6 Quattro 2.7tdi outperforms it in everything. More space, more headroom more luggae space alot cheaper to run, more economical and quite a tad bit faster too. Oh and its cheaper. So who won again?
I work on facts not what I want to believe.
25 March 2006, 08:55 AM
#124
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sorry, but when I see an X5 I automatically think 'crap, sad, ****, slapper, tosser...things like that. cant help it, i must be conditioned. of course that shouldn't stop X5 drivers carrying on as they quite rightly don't care what anyone else thinks..
25 March 2006, 09:41 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by Ted Maul
sorry, but when I see an X5 I automatically think 'crap, sad, ****, slapper, tosser...things like that. cant help it, i must be conditioned. of course that shouldn't stop X5 drivers carrying on as they quite rightly don't care what anyone else thinks..
25 March 2006, 10:12 AM
#126
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Originally Posted by Ted Maul
sorry, but when I see an X5 I automatically think 'crap, sad, ****, slapper, tosser...things like that. cant help it, i must be conditioned. of course that shouldn't stop X5 drivers carrying on as they quite rightly don't care what anyone else thinks..
that says a lot about you and very little about the X5 driver.
25 March 2006, 10:37 AM
#127
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Originally Posted by Ted Maul
i liked what unclebuck said on another thread about x5's,
'Footballers wives' syndrome. They think they look classy but they just look like kept slags.
made me chuckle
'Footballers wives' syndrome. They think they look classy but they just look like kept slags.
made me chuckle
....
25 March 2006, 01:44 PM
#128
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Audilover you are clearly a sick sick man take some pills relax and then try to look at the complete tripe you write from an independant point of view and see if you can understand why it makes you look like a retard. Your assumptions about SUV drivers are plain wrong every single one of them. THats fine if you keep those bigoted opinions to yourself but when you spout such bollocks on here it makes you look like a brian dead moronic ****. I mean really the worlds petrol is not gong to run out in 20 years is it. If you want to make the roads safer take all the performance cars off the road because they are in general driven by people who do not respect the laws of the road and consistently break speed limits and drive to fast. Nobody needs
a car any bigger than a fiesta 1.1 so why should anyone have one, everything bigger is an extra danger on the road.
a car any bigger than a fiesta 1.1 so why should anyone have one, everything bigger is an extra danger on the road.
Last edited by Luan Pra bang; 25 March 2006 at 03:59 PM.
26 March 2006, 12:20 AM
#129
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Originally Posted by Luan Pra bang
Audilover you are clearly a sick sick man take some pills relax and then try to look at the complete tripe you write from an independant point of view and see if you can understand why it makes you look like a retard. Your assumptions about SUV drivers are plain wrong every single one of them. THats fine if you keep those bigoted opinions to yourself but when you spout such bollocks on here it makes you look like a brian dead moronic ****. I mean really the worlds petrol is not gong to run out in 20 years is it. If you want to make the roads safer take all the performance cars off the road because they are in general driven by people who do not respect the laws of the road and consistently break speed limits and drive to fast. Nobody needs
a car any bigger than a fiesta 1.1 so why should anyone have one, everything bigger is an extra danger on the road.
a car any bigger than a fiesta 1.1 so why should anyone have one, everything bigger is an extra danger on the road.
Nice childish argument mate. I can go break the law tomorrow by just riding my bicycle. Your obvioulsy the **** as how can my opionions be bigoted. My rights start where yours end and vice versa. The fuel reserves are actually lower than what was once thought and as more countries such as china develop they will need lots more oil. For us average people fuel is estimated to run out in about 20 years. Our governments will still have emergency fuel however. Even if its not 20 years we will run out in 30. Whats the difference? Either way our children will suffer by our selfishness and the polluted surrondings.
It doesnt matter if your car does 0-60 in 3 secs or 11 secs when in the wrong hands accidents will happen. I never said every SUV driver is wrong just most of them. SUV's are pointless unless you go offroad or tow heavy trailers on a regular basis. Thats why you havent put together an argument based on facts as you know what Im saying is right.
Audi quattros use more fuel than if they were RWD or FWD but no one complains about them as people use them for what they were designed to do. Therefore they serve their purpose and no one complains. Cant you understand such a simple thing?
thhankfully nnot yoours
26 March 2006, 08:58 PM
#131
[QUOTE=AudiLover]
My problem with SUV's are as follows:...............
bQUOTE]
This smacks of hypocrisy!! Here you are spouting cr@p about SUV's and you recommend an Audi Allroad which is most if not everything you hold against SUVs!
My problem with SUV's are as follows:...............
bQUOTE]
This smacks of hypocrisy!! Here you are spouting cr@p about SUV's and you recommend an Audi Allroad which is most if not everything you hold against SUVs!
26 March 2006, 10:30 PM
#132
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As a Mountain Biker and outdoor enthusiast!!! I can only say that I am incredibly glad that most of these vehicles stay on the road. There are so few places in this over crowded island to get away from urbanisation and mechanisation that the last thing I want to see are 4x4s littering the landscape with ill informed drivers getting stuck and ripping up the countryside.
As far as I can see most people seem to equate size with success, and so it comes down to the old issue of jealousy, most opinions seem to be fuelled by the little green monster.
Personally I absolutely loath 4x4s, but thats my business and I dont need to justify it on here.
As far as I can see most people seem to equate size with success, and so it comes down to the old issue of jealousy, most opinions seem to be fuelled by the little green monster.
Personally I absolutely loath 4x4s, but thats my business and I dont need to justify it on here.
27 March 2006, 06:45 AM
#133
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Originally Posted by Crippo
but thats my business and I dont need to justify it on here.
.ps People who ride mountain bikes are worse than any 4x4 driver. Tearing down hillsides - terrorising walkers. They're all w@nkers
27 March 2006, 07:35 AM
#134
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Originally Posted by AudiLover
Nice childish argument mate. I can go break the law tomorrow by just riding my bicycle. Your obvioulsy the **** as how can my opionions be bigoted. My rights start where yours end and vice versa. The fuel reserves are actually lower than what was once thought and as more countries such as china develop they will need lots more oil. For us average people fuel is estimated to run out in about 20 years. Our governments will still have emergency fuel however. Even if its not 20 years we will run out in 30. Whats the difference? Either way our children will suffer by our selfishness and the polluted surrondings.
It doesnt matter if your car does 0-60 in 3 secs or 11 secs when in the wrong hands accidents will happen. I never said every SUV driver is wrong just most of them. SUV's are pointless unless you go offroad or tow heavy trailers on a regular basis. Thats why you havent put together an argument based on facts as you know what Im saying is right.
Audi quattros use more fuel than if they were RWD or FWD but no one complains about them as people use them for what they were designed to do. Therefore they serve their purpose and no one complains. Cant you understand such a simple thing?
It doesnt matter if your car does 0-60 in 3 secs or 11 secs when in the wrong hands accidents will happen. I never said every SUV driver is wrong just most of them. SUV's are pointless unless you go offroad or tow heavy trailers on a regular basis. Thats why you havent put together an argument based on facts as you know what Im saying is right.
Audi quattros use more fuel than if they were RWD or FWD but no one complains about them as people use them for what they were designed to do. Therefore they serve their purpose and no one complains. Cant you understand such a simple thing?
What purpose? When do you really need 4 wheel drive? When its wet???
99% of the time RWD or FWD is more than sufficient. Its a marketing gimmick for most people that buy them, pure and simple. For Audi, the Quattro drivetrain is no more justifiable than an SUV.
My last two cars were front wheel drive, my current is RWD. All of them will out handle any current quattro Audi (£50K RS4's excepted). And have been more than capable in anything Scotland's weather can throw at them and certainly anything that a Quattro could cope with on road tyres.
And as for the SUV vs estate argument, no one is disputing that SUV's are less efficient than comparable estates/avants.
Luckily, we often base decisions on less logical and rational grounds. That's what makes life interesting and explains why we are not all driving Honda Insights, despite the fact that for 99% of the time the Honda would be all the car we ever required.
You continue to miss that point. The A6 Avant may be all the things you mentioned, but, you see, that doesn't matter one bit if someone prefers the X5 (or any other SUV) for all those intangible, emotional reasons.
We don't live in a logical world. And even if we did, no one would drive Audi's either.
What makes me laugh though is that on one hand you casigate SUV's for being too big, too heavy and, basically, a waste of time,
and on the other you are promoting the very same vehicle as manufactured by Audi.
Strange indeed. Surely the Audi SUV's are an abomination as well?
Or is it just the BMW badge that you have issues with. Perhaps if you looked past the badge and woke up to the fact that Audi's may be beatifully built, but they will never be the driver's choice because with highly specialist and expensive models apart, they are simply not as good to drive as the competition.
And that's not just my experience, and I'm not trying to argue the case with you, its an observation. And just about every magazine test in the past 10 years will tell you the same thing.
27 March 2006, 07:50 AM
#135
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Diablo - why are you "arguing" with somebody talking via their audi-tinted spectacles ?
Audis are great cars - but they do a lot of things well / adequately (possibly excluding the RS4 - but having owned a 3.0 Quattro I can safely say that it handled like a sofa compared to subarus etc.
Audis are great cars - but they do a lot of things well / adequately (possibly excluding the RS4 - but having owned a 3.0 Quattro I can safely say that it handled like a sofa compared to subarus etc.
27 March 2006, 08:17 AM
#136
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Originally Posted by jasey
Exactly .
ps People who ride mountain bikes are worse than any 4x4 driver. Tearing down hillsides - terrorising walkers. They're all w@nkers
.ps People who ride mountain bikes are worse than any 4x4 driver. Tearing down hillsides - terrorising walkers. They're all w@nkers
Are you being rude because you think its funny??? Or are you just rude???I'm not sure.
27 March 2006, 08:53 AM
#138
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I was driving on a country road yesterday and came accross a Land Rover just stopped in the road, no indication or anything, just as I was about to pass it, it moved off, the mobile phone call obviously finished. We then got to a 30 limit, where it carried on at about 50 mph, shortly after it turned off with no indication.
I know it's only one example, but there seems to be an arrogance that goes with feeling safe in your big tank of a car.
I know it's only one example, but there seems to be an arrogance that goes with feeling safe in your big tank of a car.
27 March 2006, 08:57 AM
#139
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Originally Posted by Paul3446
I was driving on a country road yesterday and came accross a Land Rover just stopped in the road, no indication or anything, just as I was about to pass it, it moved off, the mobile phone call obviously finished. We then got to a 30 limit, where it carried on at about 50 mph, shortly after it turned off with no indication.
I know it's only one example, but there seems to be an arrogance that goes with feeling safe in your big tank of a car.
I know it's only one example, but there seems to be an arrogance that goes with feeling safe in your big tank of a car.
Arrogant metro driving nurse w@nkers
27 March 2006, 09:11 AM
#140
I agree with the comment that AWD is a marketing gimmick, at least in the UK anyway. I used to drive an Audi A4 Avant Quattro, and at no point during my time with the car, did I really need AWD. The road conditions in winter were never so bad to give the AWD a significant advantage over a FWD or AWD, and if the conditions were that bad I wouldn't be on the roads anyway. Unless you drive on terrain that is extremely slippery and uneven, and we're talking deep ruts, rocks, loads of mud, most road cars can handle mild off roading. I've driven across dirt tracks, grassy terrain farm land in my 1.0L Micra with no problems.
Most cars be it performance cars, SUVs, MPVs etc are all down to marketing, because lets face it, all cars and get you from A to B, but for everyone it's how to do it. There is no real need for these sort of cars on our roads, but we buy them because we want to, everyone has different priorities when choosing their vehicle. If someone wants have a more commanding view of the roads and the perception of greater safety, buy and SUV, if someone has a need to carry more than 5 passengers by an MPV, if someone wants to experience the enjoyment of being faster than other road users, get a performance car. Obviously most people have more than one priority, eg, commanding view and performance, hence Porsche Cayane Turbo or BMW X5 4.8 etc. If theres a big demand for it, manufacturers will cater for it. I would stick my neck out and say that a 1.4 Ford Focus will cater for 90% of all our needs. It will get you from A to B, handle the occaisional mild off roading, carry 5 and their lugguage/shopping and sip fuel at a ecommical rate. Everything else is just a luxury, but like everyone else, I like my luxuries and I really don't give a flying frig what other people think of my choice of vehicle.
If some of you are agreived with the consumption of fuel of some cars, or use of resources to manufacture their parts ask yourself this; What are you doing to mitigate these circumstances, are you driving electric hybrid vehicles? Are you going to work on a bicycle? Where does that leave cars that you admire, like Aston Martins, Ferarri's, Bentleys, Evo, Imprezza, hot hatches, etc.
Its not the car at fault but peoples attitudes/perception towards them.
Most cars be it performance cars, SUVs, MPVs etc are all down to marketing, because lets face it, all cars and get you from A to B, but for everyone it's how to do it. There is no real need for these sort of cars on our roads, but we buy them because we want to, everyone has different priorities when choosing their vehicle. If someone wants have a more commanding view of the roads and the perception of greater safety, buy and SUV, if someone has a need to carry more than 5 passengers by an MPV, if someone wants to experience the enjoyment of being faster than other road users, get a performance car. Obviously most people have more than one priority, eg, commanding view and performance, hence Porsche Cayane Turbo or BMW X5 4.8 etc. If theres a big demand for it, manufacturers will cater for it. I would stick my neck out and say that a 1.4 Ford Focus will cater for 90% of all our needs. It will get you from A to B, handle the occaisional mild off roading, carry 5 and their lugguage/shopping and sip fuel at a ecommical rate. Everything else is just a luxury, but like everyone else, I like my luxuries and I really don't give a flying frig what other people think of my choice of vehicle.
If some of you are agreived with the consumption of fuel of some cars, or use of resources to manufacture their parts ask yourself this; What are you doing to mitigate these circumstances, are you driving electric hybrid vehicles? Are you going to work on a bicycle? Where does that leave cars that you admire, like Aston Martins, Ferarri's, Bentleys, Evo, Imprezza, hot hatches, etc.
Its not the car at fault but peoples attitudes/perception towards them.
27 March 2006, 09:18 AM
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4 wheel drive traction certainly makes a difference where I live. It was hard work to get my RWD car up the hill to the house in the snow. Some of my neighbours just gave up and left their cars at the bottom of it.
The X5 I had as a loan car couldn't get up it at all despite it's 4WD, due to it's useless oversize wheel/tyre combo I suppose. It just followed the camber of the road and span it's wheels. Really useful, as said earlier on this thread a triumph of marketing and style over substance. Now a REAL off roader is a different matter entirely.
The X5 I had as a loan car couldn't get up it at all despite it's 4WD, due to it's useless oversize wheel/tyre combo I suppose. It just followed the camber of the road and span it's wheels. Really useful, as said earlier on this thread a triumph of marketing and style over substance. Now a REAL off roader is a different matter entirely.
27 March 2006, 09:23 AM
#142
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Try a lexus in the snow - they have trouble with the camber from the kerb to the road - never mind an incline .
Thin or snow tyres is all you really need for snowy roads. The wife used to have a panda - probably the best car we've ever had for the snowy roads.
.Thin or snow tyres is all you really need for snowy roads. The wife used to have a panda - probably the best car we've ever had for the snowy roads.
27 March 2006, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel-S
I've seen a black X5 round my way a few times and it looks just so good
27 March 2006, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jonc
I agree with the comment that AWD is a marketing gimmick, at least in the UK anyway. I used to drive an Audi A4 Avant Quattro, and at no point during my time with the car, did I really need AWD. The road conditions in winter were never so bad to give the AWD a significant advantage over a FWD or AWD, and if the conditions were that bad I wouldn't be on the roads anyway. Unless you drive on terrain that is extremely slippery and uneven, and we're talking deep ruts, rocks, loads of mud, most road cars can handle mild off roading. I've driven across dirt tracks, grassy terrain farm land in my 1.0L Micra with no problems.
Most cars be it performance cars, SUVs, MPVs etc are all down to marketing, because lets face it, all cars and get you from A to B, but for everyone it's how to do it. There is no real need for these sort of cars on our roads, but we buy them because we want to, everyone has different priorities when choosing their vehicle. If someone wants have a more commanding view of the roads and the perception of greater safety, buy and SUV, if someone has a need to carry more than 5 passengers by an MPV, if someone wants to experience the enjoyment of being faster than other road users, get a performance car. Obviously most people have more than one priority, eg, commanding view and performance, hence Porsche Cayane Turbo or BMW X5 4.8 etc. If theres a big demand for it, manufacturers will cater for it. I would stick my neck out and say that a 1.4 Ford Focus will cater for 90% of all our needs. It will get you from A to B, handle the occaisional mild off roading, carry 5 and their lugguage/shopping and sip fuel at a ecommical rate. Everything else is just a luxury, but like everyone else, I like my luxuries and I really don't give a flying frig what other people think of my choice of vehicle.
If some of you are agreived with the consumption of fuel of some cars, or use of resources to manufacture their parts ask yourself this; What are you doing to mitigate these circumstances, are you driving electric hybrid vehicles? Are you going to work on a bicycle? Where does that leave cars that you admire, like Aston Martins, Ferarri's, Bentleys, Evo, Imprezza, hot hatches, etc.
Its not the car at fault but peoples attitudes/perception towards them.
Most cars be it performance cars, SUVs, MPVs etc are all down to marketing, because lets face it, all cars and get you from A to B, but for everyone it's how to do it. There is no real need for these sort of cars on our roads, but we buy them because we want to, everyone has different priorities when choosing their vehicle. If someone wants have a more commanding view of the roads and the perception of greater safety, buy and SUV, if someone has a need to carry more than 5 passengers by an MPV, if someone wants to experience the enjoyment of being faster than other road users, get a performance car. Obviously most people have more than one priority, eg, commanding view and performance, hence Porsche Cayane Turbo or BMW X5 4.8 etc. If theres a big demand for it, manufacturers will cater for it. I would stick my neck out and say that a 1.4 Ford Focus will cater for 90% of all our needs. It will get you from A to B, handle the occaisional mild off roading, carry 5 and their lugguage/shopping and sip fuel at a ecommical rate. Everything else is just a luxury, but like everyone else, I like my luxuries and I really don't give a flying frig what other people think of my choice of vehicle.
If some of you are agreived with the consumption of fuel of some cars, or use of resources to manufacture their parts ask yourself this; What are you doing to mitigate these circumstances, are you driving electric hybrid vehicles? Are you going to work on a bicycle? Where does that leave cars that you admire, like Aston Martins, Ferarri's, Bentleys, Evo, Imprezza, hot hatches, etc.
Its not the car at fault but peoples attitudes/perception towards them.
Ahh Finally a post that makes concise sense!!!!
Not all Suv/4x4's have poor handling in bad weather. There are some that combine luxury with proper off road capabilities. But if you want an X5 and your not bothered about icy hills and dodgy cambers then great, get what you want. Personally if I had the money I would of got an X5.
It all comes down to personal choice and opinion. some people are happy with a 1.1 Fiesta, while some drive 5 litre merc's that cost as much as a house.
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