Cossie Buyers guide
31 October 2001, 11:06 AM
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A while ago I thought about buying a 2WD Cossie and asked Mike Rainbird (Chairman, Norfolk RSOC) for some advice. The following info is from him and another guy called Luke Peckett. Hope it is of some use to anybody thinking about buying one. Feel free to add anything else.
Mark
======================
Accident damage - check all panels to ensure they are original (stamped with Ford logo and year of manufacture).
Shell - check the chassis number is genuine and hasn't been welded in place (beside the driver's seat underneath the flap) - could require lifting the carpet.
Boot - lift the boot carpet to check it hasn't been in a rear ender.
Engine number should tie up, unless new engine - then ask for proof.
Syncros on gears 1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th. The brass baulk rings wear and cause the gears to crunch if hurried. This is a cheap cure (£200-250 fitted at Harvey's), although mose people would charge £1k for a new gear box, so use this as a negotion if he knows nothing about Cossies...
Service history essential. Cossies MUST have the oil and plugs changed religiously at 6000miles (if the oil is changed more regularly, shows a careful owner).
Check play on turbo: Up / down is okay (floats in a bath of oil that is only present when engine started), excessive left to right means turbo will need replacing at some time in future (budget for £150 for repair of standard one to £300 for hybridisation).
If it hunts from cold, is just idle stabiliser needs cleaning (he may not know this and so can be used as another negotion point - "needs a set up mate...")
High speed "wandering" means bushes need replacing.
Make sure you don't get one that has been lowered by more than 25mm, causes excessive tyre wear (especially on inside rear of tyres - check these as they could be illegal, but like fine from the outside).
Avoid cars with K&N cones or aftermarket dumpvalves.
Clutch should be light - heavy means that it is going to need replacing in the near future.
Check for brake judder. Abused Cossies eat standard discs.
If it has a boost gauge 10psi is standard 15psi is stage 1.
Check for oil leaks all around the engine, as they can be bad for this.
Check diff is not leaking.
NEVER BUY THE FIRST OR ONE YOU SEE - LOOK AT AT LEAST TEN!
=====================
here is so much stuff to look out for it is unbelievable, the best advice is to make sure
you have at the very least £500 left over to sort out all the little things you missed when
looking at the car.
In no particular order:
- If you feel uncomfortable with the seller or the car in ANY way then walk away, there are
plenty more out there. Don't rush into buying one just because you desperately want one (I
know the feeling only too well)
- Go for a 2WD at this price unless you really want a 4x4 and a 2WD just won't do. You can
get 2WD Cossie in much better condition than a 4x4 and they are cheaper to fix and slightly
cheaper to run in terms of mpg. 4x4's at this sort of price tend to a bit rough, not all
are because there are always some people selling cars that they don't know the value of.
- When you arrive to look at the car make sure the chassis number on the VIN plate matches
the one on the floor (under the plastic cap between the drivers seat and the sill) and make
sure this matches the one on the V5 document.
- Check the number stamped in the floor is stamped UPWARDS i.e. it is raised towards the
roof of the car. If it is stamped downwards then it isn't original and unless there is
documented proof and a bloody good reason why it is like this walk away.
- Ask the seller if you can remove the hose which leads from the air box or cone filter (if
it has one fitted) to the turbo inlet. If they say no, again I would walk away. You should
be able to move the turbo impeller up and down a little bit (it floats in an oil bearing
and the play is taken up when the engine starts and oil is fed around the turbo). Any more
than a tiny amount of forwards and backwards play is a sign of a turbo on it's way out.
Always there should be no oil in the housing if there is the seals are dying or dead and it
is new turbo time.
- When the engine is started look for blue smoke. This can indicate that the turbo oil
seals and/or valve stem seals are on they way out. If the smoke is only on the overrun
(decelerating) then it tends to indicate the stem seals. If continues to smoke all the time
it could be the turbo or bore wear. A slight bit of smoke when the engine is under full
load is OK but it should only be a haze. Large amounts of smoke = £££££ so unless you can
knock loads of the price I would be off.
- White smoke could indicate a shagged turbo or headgasket. See below for checks to see if
it the head gasket.
- Open the header tank (when the engine is cold) and see what the coolant looks like. If it
has a dark oily film then there the head gasket is leaking and the oil is contaminating the
water. Not so serious but it is going to cost between £200-£500 to get sorted depending on
where you go to get it done so it is bargaining time again.
- Check the oil for a white mayonnaise type substance. If this is present then the
headgasket is on it's way out (water and oil are mixing causing the oil to emulsify).
- White smoke from the exhaust. Most Cossie's do this at idle in cooler weather but if
there are plumes of it under load and at idle then it is another good sign the headgasket
is going.
- A wandering sensation from the rear of the car at speed shows that the rear suspension
bushes are shot and need replacement again £200 ish for this.
- Personally (this is just my opinion) unless you know the car well and there is loads of
bills then i would steer clear of heavily modified cars. At this money they all seem to be
shagged and need lots Of $$$ spending on them. This is just from my experience looking at
cars at this sort of price. I would look for a lightly modified or standard car.
- When the engine starts from cold there will be piston slap on 2WD cars unless they have
been fitted with 4x4 pistons (the piston skirt was redesigned on 4x4's to help reduce
this). It should not be a heavy clonking noise, just a slight "diesel" noise and should
clear when the engine is warmed up. I have a 30,000 mile engine, that is very well
looked after, it was built around a brand new 200 series block (stronger 4x4 block) but the
original 2WD pistons were used, and that is noisy when it is cold but the noise clears when
it is warm.
- Check the wings for the original Ford stamps along the upper edge where they are attached
to the inner wing. Also check they sealant between the front panel and wings to see if it is
sloppy applied. It is almost impossible to replace this properly after the wings/front panel
have been replaced following a smash. Also check that the front panel has it's body coloured
plate as this is often not refixed after replacing the front panel. To be honest at this
price you going to see a lot of cars that have had damage (again from experience) this
doesn't have to be a bad thing, contrary to what a lot of people say, as long as it has
been repaired to A1 standards.
- Also check between the front suspension turrets and the inner wing. Sierra's all seem to
rust here to a certain extent and it is normally worst on the passenger side behind the
header tank. Again another good bargaining point.
- Watch when the seller brakes if his right leg is going up and down like he is on a pogo
stick then the front disks are warped (this is dead common) that is another £100.
- The clutch should be nice and light (not Fiesta light but not Land Rover heavy) the
cable runs close to the exhaust down pipe and it can melt. Water then gets into the
cable and the clutch action becomes heavy. Not expensive to fix £15-£20 but a good
bargaining point.
- The T5 box on the 2WD is pretty tough although the syncro rings can and do wear with age
and can make cahnges difficult. Usually between 2nd/3rd and 3rd/4th. Not that expensive to
fix, £300 ish. The MT75 box on the 4x4 is a lot weaker.
- Any misfires tend to be ignition related on standard cars normally a new set of plugs
will cure it (£30 for Ford Motorcraft ones). It should be very, very slight and is
normally not serious. Out of paranoia of destroyed bank accounts I would normally steer
clear of any car with a misfire but if it is only slight then it is another good bargaining
point as a misfire may also be caused by a cracked block. Say this to a seller and see
their face go white
- Don't expect a main dealer full service history at this, but expect loads of bills for
bits and bobs (oil etc.) to show the car is well looked after.
Apart from the usual, view the car in the daylight and in the dry if you can then that
is about all I can think of.
Mark
======================
Accident damage - check all panels to ensure they are original (stamped with Ford logo and year of manufacture).
Shell - check the chassis number is genuine and hasn't been welded in place (beside the driver's seat underneath the flap) - could require lifting the carpet.
Boot - lift the boot carpet to check it hasn't been in a rear ender.
Engine number should tie up, unless new engine - then ask for proof.
Syncros on gears 1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th. The brass baulk rings wear and cause the gears to crunch if hurried. This is a cheap cure (£200-250 fitted at Harvey's), although mose people would charge £1k for a new gear box, so use this as a negotion if he knows nothing about Cossies...
Service history essential. Cossies MUST have the oil and plugs changed religiously at 6000miles (if the oil is changed more regularly, shows a careful owner).
Check play on turbo: Up / down is okay (floats in a bath of oil that is only present when engine started), excessive left to right means turbo will need replacing at some time in future (budget for £150 for repair of standard one to £300 for hybridisation).
If it hunts from cold, is just idle stabiliser needs cleaning (he may not know this and so can be used as another negotion point - "needs a set up mate..."
)High speed "wandering" means bushes need replacing.
Make sure you don't get one that has been lowered by more than 25mm, causes excessive tyre wear (especially on inside rear of tyres - check these as they could be illegal, but like fine from the outside).
Avoid cars with K&N cones or aftermarket dumpvalves.
Clutch should be light - heavy means that it is going to need replacing in the near future.
Check for brake judder. Abused Cossies eat standard discs.
If it has a boost gauge 10psi is standard 15psi is stage 1.
Check for oil leaks all around the engine, as they can be bad for this.
Check diff is not leaking.
NEVER BUY THE FIRST OR ONE YOU SEE - LOOK AT AT LEAST TEN!
=====================
here is so much stuff to look out for it is unbelievable, the best advice is to make sure
you have at the very least £500 left over to sort out all the little things you missed when
looking at the car.
In no particular order:
- If you feel uncomfortable with the seller or the car in ANY way then walk away, there are
plenty more out there. Don't rush into buying one just because you desperately want one (I
know the feeling only too well)
- Go for a 2WD at this price unless you really want a 4x4 and a 2WD just won't do. You can
get 2WD Cossie in much better condition than a 4x4 and they are cheaper to fix and slightly
cheaper to run in terms of mpg. 4x4's at this sort of price tend to a bit rough, not all
are because there are always some people selling cars that they don't know the value of.
- When you arrive to look at the car make sure the chassis number on the VIN plate matches
the one on the floor (under the plastic cap between the drivers seat and the sill) and make
sure this matches the one on the V5 document.
- Check the number stamped in the floor is stamped UPWARDS i.e. it is raised towards the
roof of the car. If it is stamped downwards then it isn't original and unless there is
documented proof and a bloody good reason why it is like this walk away.
- Ask the seller if you can remove the hose which leads from the air box or cone filter (if
it has one fitted) to the turbo inlet. If they say no, again I would walk away. You should
be able to move the turbo impeller up and down a little bit (it floats in an oil bearing
and the play is taken up when the engine starts and oil is fed around the turbo). Any more
than a tiny amount of forwards and backwards play is a sign of a turbo on it's way out.
Always there should be no oil in the housing if there is the seals are dying or dead and it
is new turbo time.
- When the engine is started look for blue smoke. This can indicate that the turbo oil
seals and/or valve stem seals are on they way out. If the smoke is only on the overrun
(decelerating) then it tends to indicate the stem seals. If continues to smoke all the time
it could be the turbo or bore wear. A slight bit of smoke when the engine is under full
load is OK but it should only be a haze. Large amounts of smoke = £££££ so unless you can
knock loads of the price I would be off.
- White smoke could indicate a shagged turbo or headgasket. See below for checks to see if
it the head gasket.
- Open the header tank (when the engine is cold) and see what the coolant looks like. If it
has a dark oily film then there the head gasket is leaking and the oil is contaminating the
water. Not so serious but it is going to cost between £200-£500 to get sorted depending on
where you go to get it done so it is bargaining time again.
- Check the oil for a white mayonnaise type substance. If this is present then the
headgasket is on it's way out (water and oil are mixing causing the oil to emulsify).
- White smoke from the exhaust. Most Cossie's do this at idle in cooler weather but if
there are plumes of it under load and at idle then it is another good sign the headgasket
is going.
- A wandering sensation from the rear of the car at speed shows that the rear suspension
bushes are shot and need replacement again £200 ish for this.
- Personally (this is just my opinion) unless you know the car well and there is loads of
bills then i would steer clear of heavily modified cars. At this money they all seem to be
shagged and need lots Of $$$ spending on them. This is just from my experience looking at
cars at this sort of price. I would look for a lightly modified or standard car.
- When the engine starts from cold there will be piston slap on 2WD cars unless they have
been fitted with 4x4 pistons (the piston skirt was redesigned on 4x4's to help reduce
this). It should not be a heavy clonking noise, just a slight "diesel" noise and should
clear when the engine is warmed up. I have a 30,000 mile engine, that is very well
looked after, it was built around a brand new 200 series block (stronger 4x4 block) but the
original 2WD pistons were used, and that is noisy when it is cold but the noise clears when
it is warm.
- Check the wings for the original Ford stamps along the upper edge where they are attached
to the inner wing. Also check they sealant between the front panel and wings to see if it is
sloppy applied. It is almost impossible to replace this properly after the wings/front panel
have been replaced following a smash. Also check that the front panel has it's body coloured
plate as this is often not refixed after replacing the front panel. To be honest at this
price you going to see a lot of cars that have had damage (again from experience) this
doesn't have to be a bad thing, contrary to what a lot of people say, as long as it has
been repaired to A1 standards.
- Also check between the front suspension turrets and the inner wing. Sierra's all seem to
rust here to a certain extent and it is normally worst on the passenger side behind the
header tank. Again another good bargaining point.
- Watch when the seller brakes if his right leg is going up and down like he is on a pogo
stick then the front disks are warped (this is dead common) that is another £100.
- The clutch should be nice and light (not Fiesta light but not Land Rover heavy) the
cable runs close to the exhaust down pipe and it can melt. Water then gets into the
cable and the clutch action becomes heavy. Not expensive to fix £15-£20 but a good
bargaining point.
- The T5 box on the 2WD is pretty tough although the syncro rings can and do wear with age
and can make cahnges difficult. Usually between 2nd/3rd and 3rd/4th. Not that expensive to
fix, £300 ish. The MT75 box on the 4x4 is a lot weaker.
- Any misfires tend to be ignition related on standard cars normally a new set of plugs
will cure it (£30 for Ford Motorcraft ones). It should be very, very slight and is
normally not serious. Out of paranoia of destroyed bank accounts
I would normally steer clear of any car with a misfire but if it is only slight then it is another good bargaining
point as a misfire may also be caused by a cracked block. Say this to a seller and see
their face go white
- Don't expect a main dealer full service history at this, but expect loads of bills for
bits and bobs (oil etc.) to show the car is well looked after.
Apart from the usual, view the car in the daylight and in the dry if you can then that
is about all I can think of.
31 October 2001, 02:12 PM
#3
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Could be something to do with cars with K&N's being doughnuted in carparks
I remember Mike saying something about not needing a vent to air dump valve unless you are running a T4 turbo. I don't think he had one until his 500bhp upgrade.
I really hate the noise BTW. Doesn't it drive you mad?
I think the real reason is that the parts are not really necessary and only there for the noise.
I could be talking bollox and probably am.
Mark
[Edited by Mark Champion - 10/31/2001 2:14:17 PM]
I remember Mike saying something about not needing a vent to air dump valve unless you are running a T4 turbo. I don't think he had one until his 500bhp upgrade.
I really hate the noise BTW. Doesn't it drive you mad?
I think the real reason is that the parts are not really necessary and only there for the noise.
I could be talking bollox and probably am.
Mark
[Edited by Mark Champion - 10/31/2001 2:14:17 PM]
01 November 2001, 09:35 AM
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My dump valve is more than entertaining thanks. 
Its a Bailey Piston job with a special double spring. at low boost you get a, quite frankly, sexually arousing fluttering noise, but at high boost you get the usual TISHHHHH of vented gas.
totally unessasary, I agree, but it makes the car sound so much better and despite what everyone else says, does noticably reduce lag
Everybody I have met likes it. especially the Laydees. So I like it too.
astraboy.
Its a Bailey Piston job with a special double spring. at low boost you get a, quite frankly, sexually arousing fluttering noise, but at high boost you get the usual TISHHHHH of vented gas.
totally unessasary, I agree, but it makes the car sound so much better and despite what everyone else says, does noticably reduce lag
Everybody I have met likes it. especially the Laydees. So I like it too.
astraboy.
02 November 2001, 09:25 AM
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Dump valves are VITAL above 20psi otherwise the shock of the turbo impellers stopping suddenly will brake em quite soon.
K+N kits are a bit ****, get a massive grp A cone filter on an huge alloy trumpet, its about waaaay bigger than the K+N, and makes the best noise...
If you run the induction kit i mentioned then u get the loudest wastegate flutter noise youve ever heard (this is because the noise actually comes back out of the induction kit, from the turbo).
K+N kits are a bit ****, get a massive grp A cone filter on an huge alloy trumpet, its about waaaay bigger than the K+N, and makes the best noise...
If you run the induction kit i mentioned then u get the loudest wastegate flutter noise youve ever heard (this is because the noise actually comes back out of the induction kit, from the turbo).
02 November 2001, 10:29 AM
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I dunno steve, its pretty loud right now, however, you can never have too much wastegate chatter, so I have to have one!
Where can you get em from and how much are they?
astraboy.
Where can you get em from and how much are they?
astraboy.
02 November 2001, 11:17 AM
#7
"Dump valves are VITAL above 20psi otherwise the shock of the turbo impellers stopping suddenly will brake em quite soon."
Er, no theyre not and no they dont. I run 22psi without a dump valve and my turbo has killed itself. Even after 7k miles of abuse its still as tight as it was when new. You can run upto 28psi without a dump valve.
A dump valve introduces a point at which crap can enter your engine. Unless you buy a filtered dump valve or a twin piston one they sit open at idle and so provide an entrance point for dust etc.
A dump valve with reduce the strain on the turbo caused by the back pressure when you throttle off and hence will increase the operating life of the turbo. That doesnt mean that running without one will instantly knacker the turbo. You increase response time without a dump valve and get a mental chattering when you throtle off
"K+N kits are a bit ****, get a massive grp A cone filter on an huge alloy trumpet, its about waaaay bigger than the K+N, and makes the best noise..."
The best product available is a standard filter. I personally run a standard air box with a K&N panel buts thats only because I dont have to fork out £20 for a Ford filter every few thousand miles.
Bren
Er, no theyre not and no they dont. I run 22psi without a dump valve and my turbo has killed itself. Even after 7k miles of abuse its still as tight as it was when new. You can run upto 28psi without a dump valve.
A dump valve introduces a point at which crap can enter your engine. Unless you buy a filtered dump valve or a twin piston one they sit open at idle and so provide an entrance point for dust etc.
A dump valve with reduce the strain on the turbo caused by the back pressure when you throttle off and hence will increase the operating life of the turbo. That doesnt mean that running without one will instantly knacker the turbo. You increase response time without a dump valve and get a mental chattering when you throtle off
"K+N kits are a bit ****, get a massive grp A cone filter on an huge alloy trumpet, its about waaaay bigger than the K+N, and makes the best noise..."
The best product available is a standard filter. I personally run a standard air box with a K&N panel buts thats only because I dont have to fork out £20 for a Ford filter every few thousand miles.
Bren
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02 November 2001, 11:34 AM
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Bren,
didnt mean itd instantly **** ur turbo, just wear it out faster due to the shock of it stoppin. but im runnin 30psi so i gotta.
i didnt say the induction kit was best for power (may be, i dunno), but its the best noise (IMO!), and deff' better than k+n.
didnt mean itd instantly **** ur turbo, just wear it out faster due to the shock of it stoppin. but im runnin 30psi so i gotta.
i didnt say the induction kit was best for power (may be, i dunno), but its the best noise (IMO!), and deff' better than k+n.
03 November 2001, 02:46 PM
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i found a way of stopping a dump valve opening on idle on my series 1, which are renound for the valves opening on idle.
instead of using the vac pipe to the ecu, i used the breather off the top of the inlet manifold as it always has a lower amount of vacuum than basicaly what is essentialy a blocked off pipe.
i know its different on a cossie but you could adapt this idea to suit.
instead of using the vac pipe to the ecu, i used the breather off the top of the inlet manifold as it always has a lower amount of vacuum than basicaly what is essentialy a blocked off pipe.
i know its different on a cossie but you could adapt this idea to suit.
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