Olly, do you think smoking should be allowed EVERYWHERE? buses, trains, workplace etc. etc. After all, it used to be and you could say to them "if you don't like it, find a non smoking train (but there aren't any) or get a job where there's no smoking (and there always is).

Unless smoking rooms are 'sealed', having a smoking area in a pub is like saying it's ok to **** in the swimming pool at one end only.

The fact of the matter is, there are less and less smokers these days, so democracy in action will mean that smoking will eventually be banned in pubs anyway for commercial reasons.

Maybe you should ask for smoking houses to replace the pubs?

Personally, I'd rather pubs signed that they were either a smoking or non smoking pub and licencing laws changed for public houses meant that at least every other licence is a non-smoking one. i.e. any place can apply to be a licenced non-smoking pub but there are limited smoking pub licences. Maybe a 70% non smoking and 30% smoking which would fairly represent the non smoking/smoking population. That way, everyones happy.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see why I should lose my health, and enjoyment, because of a selfish habit.

If you want to smoke, do it in your own home, or outside of the pub - that's meeting in the middle, surely.

 

So do buses and cars and factories - you going to ban those too, if not, why not?

Pollen has that effect on me - can we ban all flowering plants please?

So does standing in a chip shop for 10 minutes - can we ban those as well, if not why not?

And what if they did? You'd leave and find another pub that didn't allow tramps in wouldn't you??

I don't disagree with the last sentence. But the "anti-x" brigade would do better to seek compromise that can meet the needs of both parties and allow market forces and freedom of choice to dictate rather than taking a facist we're right and you will agree with us approach.

 

They already are where I live.

 

ban the smelly *******s everywhere

 

No - because you are depriving smokers of the "pub" experience. There are smoke free pubs if it bothers you, use them.

Pubs have been able to enforce no smoking for a long time, why do you think so few do if supposedly 70% of their customers object to smoking? It's becuase we have this attitude of not complaining. If most of a pub's customers complained about the smoke and threatened to go elsewhere - what do you think they would do?

It's all about choices and you're all for removing yet another choice from the general public, when will you be happy? When the government tells you what to think and removes all choices from your life?

 

We're not asking you to stop smoking, we're asking you to compromise!

 

I think if your being honest the comprimise will never work - certainly not a voluntary comprimise. So it comes down to either banning it or allowing it. And I know where I stand on it !


Applogies made an **** of replying to that !! And spelling !!

 

LOL but apart from pubs with smoking and non smoking facilities (which I know none off in my town and Ive been in the majority) How do you go about doing this, I could explain all I like to my friends and they could be considerate and not have a *** but do you expect me to go speak to the other 50 people in the pub and ask them not too smoke too?

I can go to the snooker hall and ask my friend not too smoke, doesnt mean the people on the table next to me wont be smoking and causing the same ill effects.

I dont expect ALL facilities to help me but in my town there is literally nowhere to go where people dont smoke

 

Feel free to correct me, but smoking on buses was top deck only. Smoking on trains was in smoking carriages. The 2 co-existed. Both smokers and non-smokers were ctaered for. Where's the problem?

I said smoking "room" not area which suggests a separate room with a divider of at least 1 door between. Usually there is good air conditioning in the smoking rooms as well to reduce the risk of "cross-contamination". As I said, we frequent one and it works fine. The "only" reason more pubs don't provide this is becuase they don't see a demand for it because the non-smoking clientele are not making an issue over it to them directly.

Democray is about freedom of choice not banning everything the majority say should be banned.

Why? I don't smoke and I'm not trying to promote it, I'm just trying to defend the freedom of choice, in what is supposed to be a democratic country.

I don't disagree with your proposition and as I say, if the customers were expressing their views to the landlords such that running a pub smoke free would cater to the majority of their customers more pubs would be doing it already.

Wetherspoons suggested they would become a total non-smoking pub before any ban - that seems to have gone quiet, why do you think that is? Maybe becuase the smokers said they'll leave, but very few non-smokers have been telling them what a good idea it is. End result, they are worried they'll loose money as there is not a percieved large market for non-smoking pubs.

 

How is an outright ban an compromise?

 

Loose - opposite of tight. Please trust me on this.

 

The Wetherspoons pubs are totally non-smoking in my area - it doesn't seem to have affected their business.

 

 

The voluntary one is working. The pubs can and do cater for the needs of their customers as those needs are communicated to them. The fact that the majority of the people in the UK are non-smokers but are not passing on their requirements to their land lord isn't really the fault of the smokers. If the pubs see a market for completely non-smoking pubs though non-smokers being highly vocal, pubs will provide the service. At the moment the non-smokers don't vote with their feet and just bitch in corners.

 

It's not an outright ban on smoking, is it?

 

Please visit the rest and confirm that none provide any non-smoking facilities. Then tell me how many of the pubs you and your non-smoking friends have petitioned to provide you with non-smoking facilities - be really nice if you could post a scanned copy of it too! If you have petitioned non pubs - then you only have yourself to blame.

So if it's only you with the problem, why don't you drink your beer outside rather than forcing the majority to change what they are doing?

How many of them have you petitioned to provide you with the service you want?

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the proposal is to allow a free vote on the outright ban of smoking in pubs - yes or no?

 

AFAIK, they are still banning smoking in their pubs by May 2006 as originally planned. So maybe there IS a percieved large market for non-smoking pubs. These pubs will grow. Yes, personally I'd rather see it done commercially rather than legally, however some things need a push along.

 

There we go - a pub has recognised an opportunity and has provided for it. I suspect they may even be doing better than before. However the other pubs around provide a choice by allowing smokers to smoke. This is what we need - not draconian blanket bans.

 

lol right, one minute your asking me to make a complaint to management, I tell you how much difference it'll make (diddly squat) and now you want me to start doing petitions. you maybe but I am not a prat who interrupts peoples social activities to ask them to sign petitions etc.

 

Ok so Wetherspoons are taking the initiative. Why not delay the ban for 2 years and watch what happens, if W'spoons do well others will provide a similar service and the ban can be dropped.

As I keep saying the non-smokers have refused to vote with their feet and stay away from the smoking only pubs, this gives the indication you aren't bothered.

 

So instead of getting up off your **** and doing something, you sit in the corner and whinge? Then you wonder why these places "think" there is no market for non-smoking facilities.

It strikes me that you actually aren't that bothered about being in a smokey environment. You don't boycott the place and you don't complain to the people that can change things, so it's apparent that playing snooker with your mates is more important to you than your health or being in a smoke free environment. Your choice! Let the somkers have one as well.

 

It is, but that doesn't stop you smoking elsewhere, does it?

It's a compromise.

 

I have. I used to go to pubs all the time. Nowadays, I can't be ar$ed due to smoky atmospheres etc. There are also many who never go to pubs in the 1st place as well.

 

I'm a non smoker. Don't go to pubs very often for the above reasons. Went to a pub two weeks ago. Haven't stopped coughing since. Clothes stank for hours until I washed them, so what's it done to my insides?
It's an intrusive, disgusting habit and one that non smokers should not be made to endure. As I said already, I DON'T go to pubs because of this.
Yve

 

Olly, I dont go out at the weekends and sit in the pubs etc. Although I do enjoy a game of snooker, me making a minor complaint to the manager or boycotting the place will do no help at all. you want me to make a petition next? jeez, you'll be asking me to run for parliment next so I can have a real say about getting it banned. Which would result off course in me having no time to play snooker anyhow.

 

OllyK - "As I keep saying the non-smokers have refused to vote with their feet and stay away from the smoking only pubs, this gives the indication you aren't bothered."

As said above, I HAVE voted with my feet. ..... Therefore, I don't socialise with my brothers. We only have the one pub within reach of the three of us. But I'd prefer to keep my lungs thank you.
Yve

 

Playing devil's advocate here though, did you mention how unpleasant you found it to the landlord before leaving??

 

Like the rest I have voted with my feet and now dont go to the pub as I dont like the smell of smoke / fact it irritates my eyes.

Have to admit I didnt complain to the landlord as realise it would not have made a great deal of differance, nor would he be interested as I dont drink that much, but if there was a petition at the bar or somewhere saying why no longer frequent the pub I would of signed it.
Richard