Danes upset Islam bigtime
06 February 2006, 01:27 PM
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On the news this morning about some **** pretending to be a suicide bomber, with all the shoulder harness stuff they use etc.
Talk about an incitement. They're as bad as the yanks in some respects at having a total misapprehension for how they are perceived in the world at large.
Talk about an incitement. They're as bad as the yanks in some respects at having a total misapprehension for how they are perceived in the world at large.
06 February 2006, 01:27 PM
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bring back national service, and lets see how many muslims are loyal to this country. i would say 10% max. and iam not anti muslim (yet) having lived in muslim countries for 4 years and i can speak arabic,i sort of know how they think
06 February 2006, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sbradley
I posted this on the other thread before (obviously) it got locked. It's relevent here and there's too much to retype, so sorry if it's bad manners or poor netiquette but I'm copying it here.
Background first. I'm married to a Christian Arab, I am a white christian Englishman. I'm ex forces and politically would consider myself a liberal conservative. So right of centre but not by very far.
I am really struggling to get my head around the fact that any religious, political or social group can be allowed to hold protests of the type we have seen over the last couple of days in this democracy (I know, I'm stretching a point there) and not be called to account. We've just seen the BNP being prosecuted on far flimsier grounds, yet other groups appear immune to prosecution. My opening statement, giving my ethnic and political position is sufficient to condemn me as 'racist' in some circles, yet anyone else, including even Scots, Welsh and Irish, can proudly proclaim their nationality from the rooftops with impunity.
And why the Hell not? Being proud of one's nationality does not make one a racist. That's an entirely different creature, relying on a belief in racial superiority rather than national pride.
But I digress.
Moderate Muslims assert that anyone who advocates violence in the name of Islam is not a Muslim. That's reassuring to hear. Or it would be if it was heard louder. If those moderates who claim that the angry voices in the street do not represent their faith got off their backsides and shouted those extremists down.
Because folks, it isn't us you need to tell. You need to tell your Imams and Mullahs that they aren't representing the Koran, the will of God or the teachings of the Prophet. You need to tell them that they aren't representative of what you all feel and believe. Because until you do, and until they change their tune then we simply won't believe you. How could we?
I'd love to deny that the West has done anything to provoke resentment in the Arab world. But I can't. History is riddled with, at best, poor judgement and at worst simple dishonesty, double standards and blatant profiteering when it comes to our dealings with Arab nations.
BUT.
We have opened our doors and provided shelter from some of the most oppressive regimes in the world. And those people who have accepted our protection and our hospitality ought to show the proper appreciation. They have come to live in Great Britain - a non secular, predominantly Christian democracy. And they should accept us for that, not try to convert us to an Islamic Republic.
The British have a long history of being gracious hosts. But I truly believe that if our guests continue to behave in the way we are currently seeing then Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech may yet be proven accurate. Because we may be tolerant but we have a limit. And I'd say that limit is rapidly being approached.
So to all good Muslims reading this I say this. Put your house in order and remember your obligations as either guests in this country or British citizens, before sufficient damage is done that all the good, caring, hardworking moderates get consumed by the fallout.
SB
Background first. I'm married to a Christian Arab, I am a white christian Englishman. I'm ex forces and politically would consider myself a liberal conservative. So right of centre but not by very far.
I am really struggling to get my head around the fact that any religious, political or social group can be allowed to hold protests of the type we have seen over the last couple of days in this democracy (I know, I'm stretching a point there) and not be called to account. We've just seen the BNP being prosecuted on far flimsier grounds, yet other groups appear immune to prosecution. My opening statement, giving my ethnic and political position is sufficient to condemn me as 'racist' in some circles, yet anyone else, including even Scots, Welsh and Irish, can proudly proclaim their nationality from the rooftops with impunity.
And why the Hell not? Being proud of one's nationality does not make one a racist. That's an entirely different creature, relying on a belief in racial superiority rather than national pride.
But I digress.
Moderate Muslims assert that anyone who advocates violence in the name of Islam is not a Muslim. That's reassuring to hear. Or it would be if it was heard louder. If those moderates who claim that the angry voices in the street do not represent their faith got off their backsides and shouted those extremists down.
Because folks, it isn't us you need to tell. You need to tell your Imams and Mullahs that they aren't representing the Koran, the will of God or the teachings of the Prophet. You need to tell them that they aren't representative of what you all feel and believe. Because until you do, and until they change their tune then we simply won't believe you. How could we?
I'd love to deny that the West has done anything to provoke resentment in the Arab world. But I can't. History is riddled with, at best, poor judgement and at worst simple dishonesty, double standards and blatant profiteering when it comes to our dealings with Arab nations.
BUT.
We have opened our doors and provided shelter from some of the most oppressive regimes in the world. And those people who have accepted our protection and our hospitality ought to show the proper appreciation. They have come to live in Great Britain - a non secular, predominantly Christian democracy. And they should accept us for that, not try to convert us to an Islamic Republic.
The British have a long history of being gracious hosts. But I truly believe that if our guests continue to behave in the way we are currently seeing then Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech may yet be proven accurate. Because we may be tolerant but we have a limit. And I'd say that limit is rapidly being approached.
So to all good Muslims reading this I say this. Put your house in order and remember your obligations as either guests in this country or British citizens, before sufficient damage is done that all the good, caring, hardworking moderates get consumed by the fallout.
SB
06 February 2006, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by scooby-si
bring back national service, and lets see how many muslims are loyal to this country. i would say 10% max. and iam not anti muslim (yet) having lived in muslim countries for 4 years and i can speak arabic,i sort of know how they think
^^ You only need an international cricket match to fathom that out...
Last edited by TelBoy; 06 February 2006 at 01:33 PM.
06 February 2006, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
^^ You only need an international cricket match to fathom that out...
06 February 2006, 02:54 PM
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Here's a thought, are there any muslims on SN that agree with all the protests and think it's totally out of order for a Dane to draw such horrible pictures, and that your reactions of violence are what is needed to resolve the issue?
I'm one of the first to make what would be taken as racist comments when I see things like this, and I'm not alone here, but I'm curious to see if there are any muslims on here who can clearly explain exactly what the problem is.
I'm one of the first to make what would be taken as racist comments when I see things like this, and I'm not alone here, but I'm curious to see if there are any muslims on here who can clearly explain exactly what the problem is.
06 February 2006, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Markus
Here's a thought, are there any muslims on SN that agree with all the protests and think it's totally out of order for a Dane to draw such horrible pictures, and that your reactions of violence are what is needed to resolve the issue?
I'm one of the first to make what would be taken as racist comments when I see things like this, and I'm not alone here, but I'm curious to see if there are any muslims on here who can clearly explain exactly what the problem is.
I'm one of the first to make what would be taken as racist comments when I see things like this, and I'm not alone here, but I'm curious to see if there are any muslims on here who can clearly explain exactly what the problem is.
06 February 2006, 04:39 PM
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I'm not a muslim, but I can understand why they would be upset by the publishing of these cartoons. It is part of their religion that you do not worship the image of the Prophet Mohammed. It's not something which is negotiable to Islam.
Whilst I'm sure that Muslims are offended by publishing cartoons perportedly representing the Prophet, what is specifically unacceptable to them is that one of the cartoons had the Prophet wearing some type of "bomb-turban". In other words it directly links the Prophet with terrorism. Put yourselves in their shoes for a minute, if something very important to you was maligned in such a way, wouldn't you be offended?
So whilst it is perfectly understandable why it would upset Muslims, the next question is what is a proportional reaction to it? In my opinion the best reaction would have been to hold peaceful demonstration, make views known through letters pages in newspapers or by contacting local representatives, MP's etc. But to wave very offensive posters mentioning beheading and holocaust is not acceptable, full stop. It shows a remarkable lack of judgement by those participating and does harm to their own religion.
Whilst I'm sure that Muslims are offended by publishing cartoons perportedly representing the Prophet, what is specifically unacceptable to them is that one of the cartoons had the Prophet wearing some type of "bomb-turban". In other words it directly links the Prophet with terrorism. Put yourselves in their shoes for a minute, if something very important to you was maligned in such a way, wouldn't you be offended?
So whilst it is perfectly understandable why it would upset Muslims, the next question is what is a proportional reaction to it? In my opinion the best reaction would have been to hold peaceful demonstration, make views known through letters pages in newspapers or by contacting local representatives, MP's etc. But to wave very offensive posters mentioning beheading and holocaust is not acceptable, full stop. It shows a remarkable lack of judgement by those participating and does harm to their own religion.
06 February 2006, 05:01 PM
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Sorry, haven't read the whole thread.
But for those who say "why aren't the Muslim leaders controlling/condemning these people", here's a paragraph buried at the bottom of the Guardian article:
"Friday's demonstration was condemned by a range of Islamic organisations, from the moderate Muslim Council of Britain to the more radical Hizb-ut-Tahrir, which Tony Blair is seeking to outlaw because of claims it backs terrorism. Hizb-ut-Tahrir organised a less incendiary protest in London on Saturday, which passed off without incident."
From here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonpro...703494,00.html
So you'll note: leaders have condemned it. You'll also note the (cursory) press coverage this condemnation received.
Thankyou to those organisations. Unfortunately, bloody newspapers are quite happy to stoke the fire, rather than trying to calm it.
But for those who say "why aren't the Muslim leaders controlling/condemning these people", here's a paragraph buried at the bottom of the Guardian article:
"Friday's demonstration was condemned by a range of Islamic organisations, from the moderate Muslim Council of Britain to the more radical Hizb-ut-Tahrir, which Tony Blair is seeking to outlaw because of claims it backs terrorism. Hizb-ut-Tahrir organised a less incendiary protest in London on Saturday, which passed off without incident."
From here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonpro...703494,00.html
So you'll note: leaders have condemned it. You'll also note the (cursory) press coverage this condemnation received.
Thankyou to those organisations. Unfortunately, bloody newspapers are quite happy to stoke the fire, rather than trying to calm it.
06 February 2006, 06:23 PM
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Rather than Blair sending more troops to Afghanistan, he should pull out the ones that are already there. Then send all the protesters out there to live under the Taliban. They don't like the Western way of freedom, so F##K OFF with there own kin. Send that ******* from Liberty (Shami Chakrabati) out as cheif spokesperson, to plead there case. They will find justice is served by the butt of an AK47.
There they are wasting British taxpayers money on policing their ****e & probably scrounging off the state (as they don't seem to have a job to go to), whilst Proper Brits are having to go to court to try & get life saving drugs for cancer.
They soon got Nick Griffin the leader of the BNP in court, to *** lick the ethnics asses. He's described as an extremist. An extemist to me flies planes into buildings, blows up trains etc. At least he went to court & paid for it himself, not legal aid like the rest of the scum.
I once had a Boss, who's moto was FIFO (Fit in or F##k off).
There they are wasting British taxpayers money on policing their ****e & probably scrounging off the state (as they don't seem to have a job to go to), whilst Proper Brits are having to go to court to try & get life saving drugs for cancer.
They soon got Nick Griffin the leader of the BNP in court, to *** lick the ethnics asses. He's described as an extremist. An extemist to me flies planes into buildings, blows up trains etc. At least he went to court & paid for it himself, not legal aid like the rest of the scum.
I once had a Boss, who's moto was FIFO (Fit in or F##k off).
06 February 2006, 06:23 PM
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To Brendan. Yeah they condemn it in the press, for us 'westerners' to wring our hands over. But do they condemn it in their own mosques which we have no access to? Or in their local communities? In their own homes? I very much doubt it.
Last edited by _RIP_; 06 February 2006 at 06:25 PM.
06 February 2006, 06:37 PM
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Having had my original moan, I have now had a look through some of the other posts.
Why does everybody feel so much for them.
They offend the west,
Burning Western flags at protests abroad, I don't like, but to do it in our own Country - Very Offensive.
To show Westerners beheaded on Islamic websites - Very F##king Offensive.
Obviously they think it is OK to do this in Islamic circles.
Well the cartoons were in Western papers. They should stick to reading Al-quds Al-Arabi.
As previous, FIFO.
Why does everybody feel so much for them.
They offend the west,
Burning Western flags at protests abroad, I don't like, but to do it in our own Country - Very Offensive.
To show Westerners beheaded on Islamic websites - Very F##king Offensive.
Obviously they think it is OK to do this in Islamic circles.
Well the cartoons were in Western papers. They should stick to reading Al-quds Al-Arabi.
As previous, FIFO.
06 February 2006, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
On the news this morning about some **** pretending to be a suicide bomber, with all the shoulder harness stuff they use etc.
Talk about an incitement. They're as bad as the yanks in some respects at having a total misapprehension for how they are perceived in the world at large.
Talk about an incitement. They're as bad as the yanks in some respects at having a total misapprehension for how they are perceived in the world at large.
P.s Except from muslims.
06 February 2006, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
^^ You only need an international cricket match to fathom that out...
06 February 2006, 08:49 PM
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History will tell some funny stories in a million years...Dinosaurs destroyed by a meteor, Wooly Mammoths destroyed by the Ice Age......Humans wiped out by a war because some one drew a cartoon.
06 February 2006, 10:26 PM
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I see the so called suicide bomber was on the tube this evening appologising for his actions,,,
now call me a cynic, but whats the betting that this will now go no further??
when in reality he should be arrested and charged.
i had to wonder at the comment, form the bib, stating that arrests would be made at the appropriate time...
so exactly when was a good time? supposing mateyboy had been the real deal..
bet that would have made great reading at the enquiry...
Mart
now call me a cynic, but whats the betting that this will now go no further??
when in reality he should be arrested and charged.
i had to wonder at the comment, form the bib, stating that arrests would be made at the appropriate time...
so exactly when was a good time? supposing mateyboy had been the real deal..
bet that would have made great reading at the enquiry...
Mart
06 February 2006, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mart360
so exactly when was a good time? supposing mateyboy had been the real deal..
06 February 2006, 10:54 PM
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anyone watching newsnight at the moment?
christ on a pony ... a little flavour as to why the middle east is so fcuked up.
five people talking, one loony ranting at the rest and nobody listening to each other.
christ on a pony ... a little flavour as to why the middle east is so fcuked up.
five people talking, one loony ranting at the rest and nobody listening to each other.
06 February 2006, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Daft Lad
God just imagine how pissed off all the protestors would be if the police had thought he was a real bomber and shot him!
06 February 2006, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Holy Ghost
anyone watching newsnight at the moment?
christ on a pony ... a little flavour as to why the middle east is so fcuked up.
five people talking, one loony ranting at the rest and nobody listening to each other.
christ on a pony ... a little flavour as to why the middle east is so fcuked up.
five people talking, one loony ranting at the rest and nobody listening to each other.
06 February 2006, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Daft Lad
God just imagine how pissed off all the protestors would be if the police had thought he was a real bomber and shot him!
breaking news as at 10.10pm: the individual dressed as a suicide bomber on friday turns out to have spent two and a half at her majesty's pleasure for class-A drug dealing offences, now out on early release.
extraordinary.
so who paid him to do what he did? pathetic. all of it.
Last edited by Holy Ghost; 06 February 2006 at 11:01 PM.
06 February 2006, 11:04 PM
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06 February 2006, 11:15 PM
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I got sick of listening to 5 people trying to say something & not succeeding. Tuned out & turned off with my own opinions not swayed one way or the other - apart from wishing someone would have shut the loud one up.
Me and probably a lot of others.
Me and probably a lot of others.
06 February 2006, 11:18 PM
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Just heard an excellent comment on the prog about ****/white power music.
One of the female performers said that being accused of racism now is seen as such a bad thing a lot of people choose to stay quiet instead of voicing their opinion (racist or otherwise). A bit of insight from an extremist
One of the female performers said that being accused of racism now is seen as such a bad thing a lot of people choose to stay quiet instead of voicing their opinion (racist or otherwise). A bit of insight from an extremist
06 February 2006, 11:35 PM
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Hello guys here we go...
Right regarding the cartoons from an Islaamic standpoint they are things Muslims are not too happy about for two reasons:
1. The Prophet Muhammad never wanted his image depicted in a good or bad way due to the fact that people who overpraised him (above his station) would possibly end up giving the characteristics of divinity and Lordship or being something similar to that and as Muslims we are ordered to worship Allaah Alone without attributing any partners in that worship in any way shape or form.
2. The issue of the suicide bomb cartoon is insulting because the Prophet mentioned the evil people like Bin Laaden, Zarkawi, Al Qaeda etc. as being the people who had left the religion and to kill them was permitted due to the harm and trials and tribulations that they bring. Killing, bombing, kidnapping, hijacking etc. So to attribute something like that to the Prophet Muhammad is totally unfair. If you want to put down Bin Laadin and his evil followers then that is totally fine but the Final Prophet to mankind (as we Muslims believe) is unfair and unjust.
Regards the comments on Mary and Jesus Son of Mary then whoever wrote the evil statements regards them (if he is Muslim) should recant as Muslims love and honour Jesus and Mary in fact we believe as Muslims the best of all the women were Mary, Aisha (the wife of the Prophet) and Aasiyah (the wife of the Pharaoh that Moses was sent to). To insult any Prophet or Messenger sent by God is a major sin in our religion and can cause you to leave the religion which is a very serious issue as any Muslim will know.
As regards to the extreme, ignorant, short sighted and plain stupid responses that Muslims again have got themselves involved in then they should fear their Lord. Demonstrating and threatening to kill people, causing such commotion that people get killed even a 14 year old boy! and as for the devil who had the audacity to dress up as a suicide bomber then he should be straight to the local anti terrorism padded cell. Would he have liked that if he had members of his family maimed and killed in the underground bombings?!!! Such a sincere apology reading from a piece of paper!!! Regards the encitement of racial hatred well the protesters were doing that and they should be prosecuted and taken off the street so they do not have any opportunity to 'poison' daft, naive and ignorant young minds and even those young minds does it not occur to these people that Islaam even gives fruit bearing trees rights in the middle of war...our Prophet did not allow Muslims at war (clear war one army against another army on a battlefield...if the case ever occured - New York and Central London IS NO BATTLEFIELD BY THE WAY) to harm innocent women, men, children, animals or fruit bearing trees let alone kill and maime let alone kill yourself by commiting suicide. Suicide in Islaam is FORBIDDEN and the reward for the one who commits suicide is Hell. They won't be getting 70 virgins they will be getting a Fire 70 times hotter than the fire of this world!!! So there are many vrigins still available unlike the cartoon suggests.
Regards the destroying of property then this is also forbidden as it is property and wealth that does not belong to those people and the people in those places may have seen the side of the Muslims being upset so why harm them and their property. Even protesting is not from Islaam as it causes distruption to peoples lifes, affects resources (police etc.) and usually leads to violence, damage to property and bloodshed. This is not the way of the Muslims.
These people claim to love the Prophet so much then ask them do they establish their prayers in the Mosque (all five as much as they can including the morning 6.45am prayer), do they grow their beard as the Prophet and all his companions did, do they recite and memorise the Quraan as it should be correctly and as it should be understood, do they treat Muslims and Non Muslim with kindness and gentleness (clearly not), do they have the correct belief in their Lord as the Prophet taught us, what do the know about the life of the Prophet? These are just some of the things...you see they all clam to love Muhammad so much that it leads them to these extremes but if the truly loved Muhammad they would know his traditions and if they knew his traditions then they would not have acted in this way. Doesn't Islaam just look great Muslims!!! Are you bloody fools happy now. What has angered most of the Muslims that understand their religion is the insulting of our Prophet whos wife we refer to as our mother and the Prophet has a higher station than our fathers so if someone insulted your father or mother in a slanderous way would you not be upset? What has also angered us is the response of the ignorant masses of Muslims and the evil inciters.
I hope that sheds some light on this affair...TBH I only responded to this because my good friend Michelle told me about it and Bravo2zero asked for my view on all this.
Aaquil...
By the way if you saw me down the street you would probably think 'Bin Laadin' I am a practising Muslim by praise be to my Lord me and that devil are worlds apart.
Right regarding the cartoons from an Islaamic standpoint they are things Muslims are not too happy about for two reasons:
1. The Prophet Muhammad never wanted his image depicted in a good or bad way due to the fact that people who overpraised him (above his station) would possibly end up giving the characteristics of divinity and Lordship or being something similar to that and as Muslims we are ordered to worship Allaah Alone without attributing any partners in that worship in any way shape or form.
2. The issue of the suicide bomb cartoon is insulting because the Prophet mentioned the evil people like Bin Laaden, Zarkawi, Al Qaeda etc. as being the people who had left the religion and to kill them was permitted due to the harm and trials and tribulations that they bring. Killing, bombing, kidnapping, hijacking etc. So to attribute something like that to the Prophet Muhammad is totally unfair. If you want to put down Bin Laadin and his evil followers then that is totally fine but the Final Prophet to mankind (as we Muslims believe) is unfair and unjust.
Regards the comments on Mary and Jesus Son of Mary then whoever wrote the evil statements regards them (if he is Muslim) should recant as Muslims love and honour Jesus and Mary in fact we believe as Muslims the best of all the women were Mary, Aisha (the wife of the Prophet) and Aasiyah (the wife of the Pharaoh that Moses was sent to). To insult any Prophet or Messenger sent by God is a major sin in our religion and can cause you to leave the religion which is a very serious issue as any Muslim will know.
As regards to the extreme, ignorant, short sighted and plain stupid responses that Muslims again have got themselves involved in then they should fear their Lord. Demonstrating and threatening to kill people, causing such commotion that people get killed even a 14 year old boy! and as for the devil who had the audacity to dress up as a suicide bomber then he should be straight to the local anti terrorism padded cell. Would he have liked that if he had members of his family maimed and killed in the underground bombings?!!! Such a sincere apology reading from a piece of paper!!! Regards the encitement of racial hatred well the protesters were doing that and they should be prosecuted and taken off the street so they do not have any opportunity to 'poison' daft, naive and ignorant young minds and even those young minds does it not occur to these people that Islaam even gives fruit bearing trees rights in the middle of war...our Prophet did not allow Muslims at war (clear war one army against another army on a battlefield...if the case ever occured - New York and Central London IS NO BATTLEFIELD BY THE WAY) to harm innocent women, men, children, animals or fruit bearing trees let alone kill and maime let alone kill yourself by commiting suicide. Suicide in Islaam is FORBIDDEN and the reward for the one who commits suicide is Hell. They won't be getting 70 virgins they will be getting a Fire 70 times hotter than the fire of this world!!! So there are many vrigins still available unlike the cartoon suggests.
Regards the destroying of property then this is also forbidden as it is property and wealth that does not belong to those people and the people in those places may have seen the side of the Muslims being upset so why harm them and their property. Even protesting is not from Islaam as it causes distruption to peoples lifes, affects resources (police etc.) and usually leads to violence, damage to property and bloodshed. This is not the way of the Muslims.
These people claim to love the Prophet so much then ask them do they establish their prayers in the Mosque (all five as much as they can including the morning 6.45am prayer), do they grow their beard as the Prophet and all his companions did, do they recite and memorise the Quraan as it should be correctly and as it should be understood, do they treat Muslims and Non Muslim with kindness and gentleness (clearly not), do they have the correct belief in their Lord as the Prophet taught us, what do the know about the life of the Prophet? These are just some of the things...you see they all clam to love Muhammad so much that it leads them to these extremes but if the truly loved Muhammad they would know his traditions and if they knew his traditions then they would not have acted in this way. Doesn't Islaam just look great Muslims!!! Are you bloody fools happy now. What has angered most of the Muslims that understand their religion is the insulting of our Prophet whos wife we refer to as our mother and the Prophet has a higher station than our fathers so if someone insulted your father or mother in a slanderous way would you not be upset? What has also angered us is the response of the ignorant masses of Muslims and the evil inciters.
I hope that sheds some light on this affair...TBH I only responded to this because my good friend Michelle told me about it and Bravo2zero asked for my view on all this.
Aaquil...
By the way if you saw me down the street you would probably think 'Bin Laadin' I am a practising Muslim by praise be to my Lord me and that devil are worlds apart.