The original post quotes a poem which is as interesting for what it leaves out as what it says. One of the qualities of the English people over the centuries has been the tolerance and openness it has shown to other cultures and peoples. There have been waves of immigration to the UK for 100's of years and they have integrated into British society. The Hugeunots of the 16/17/18th century, the Irish from 18th century to present day, Jewish immigrants from 17th century to 20th century, etc yet this isn't the message the writer wants to convey.

The poem lists battles where England lost it's sons. It implies it was just England which was fighting and losing it's sons, but....
Agincourt (history books often write about the English longbow when in fact the longbow was a Welsh weapon and it's probable that most archers in Henry V's army were Welsh mercenaries)
Hastings (when the "English" were conquered by the Normans who became the rulers. So precisely how "English" are the Engish from that point on if they were conquered by the French?)
Mons (Second World War, I don't recall there was an English Army. There was a British Army and commonwealth regiments. The US 3rd Army were also at Mons.)
Amhem - should be Arnhem surely (?) (WWII, again it was the British Army, so to imply it was just the English losing their sons is a distortion of the facts and an insult to the other nations who's sons died there).

England should be proud of it's history, but let it be a history which is based on fact.

 

FFS some of the ****e spouted on here is ridiculous. It's so petty.

If anyone who comes here and wants to live in this country they should adopt the English, Welsh or Scottish way, or indeed adopt the British way. They should learn the language and live by our rules and our heritage. I think it's great that other people come to live here and that they want to - that makes me proud. What I hate is when I hear of people living here, be it 12 months or 12 years who can only speak their native language and cannot speak English. If you cannot be arsed to learn, get out.

We could learn a lot from other countries like Australia who have far stricter immigration policies. We are running out of space, and the EU, while helping us in some ways, has had a more negative effect on us than many other nations. The very fact that the popularity of the English language around the world means that anyone (EU based) wishing to move to another country will count England in a higher category than Germany or France, where English is not the primary language - thus we penalised immediately.

People should adopt to the country they live in - and NOT the other way round. Blackboard is fine, Christmas is fine (and it's the Union Jack, not the Union flag). English is the only language (with the possible exception of Welsh who have every right to retain their heritage) - you want your children to learn to xxxx - good, move back home and teach them in state schools, or stay here, teach them at home but make they integrate into English/British society - not the other way round.

I'm bloody proud to be English and always will be. But regrettably we have allowed too many people to start to dictate what is right and wrong, and too many people have listened. Back to basics could mean a lot more. I say again...

People should adopt to the country they live in - and NOT the other way round.

Andy

 

Brit. Just to be picky.... You've distorted the poem by taking it to a level it wasn't intended..

The poem is about England and in those battles we lost English sons.. It's not removing other countries because of bigotry.. there are plenty of English only won/lost battles that could have been chosen.. It's a confused and coarse poem, but like most 'music', it means different things to different people.

 

its not just england any more its becoming law everywhere this is from another site

President, AFA
December 19, 2000

You may have noticed the news item a couple of weeks back. The city council of Little Rock, Arkansas, voted to change the name of their traditional December parade–always known as the Christmas parade--to the now politically correct title "Holiday parade." That’s right, the word "Christmas" was too religious and might offend non-religious people or people of other faiths thought the city officials–so they changed the name. I can’t wait until they find out the word "holiday" actually means "holy day." What to do then?

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is in the deep South. The Bible belt.

Staying in Dixie, you may have read that some school districts in Georgia have instructed their teachers not to refer to "Christmas break" as "Christmas break" anymore. Too specifically Christian. Might offend somebody. It is now to be called "winter break." This kind of thing is happening all over the country.

Just a couple of weeks ago the city manager of Eugene, Oregon, Jim Johnson, issued a directive banning–get this–Christmas trees from public places. You read that right he banned Christmas trees–uh, winter trees–from public places because the tree is a religious symbol and therefore–according to Mr. Johnson–cannot be displayed on city property. In his memo to all city employees, Johnson said that while it could be contended that the Christmas tree is a "holiday" or "seasonal" decoration "it is just as clearly a decoration associated with a religious holiday or tradition." Well, you go get ’em, Mr. Johnson! Round up those first amendment violating trees.

Seems after some firemen objected, Johnson offered a compromise that would allow ------mas trees to be displayed on ------mas Eve and ------mas Day so long as not one person complained. If so, the trees must be removed. By order of the law. Said he was making this order in the name of diversity. So let’s see. The way to promote diversity and tolerance is to disallow the ------mas tree?

Writes Jewish columnist Don Feder: "I’m dreaming of a white holiday. I’ll be home for holiday; you can count on me. How the Grinch stole holiday. If you are over a certain age (say 40) you can’t help but notice how Christmas is fading from our culture. I don’t mean the banishment of crèches from the courthouse steps or the prohibition of Christmas carols in public schools, due to liberal misinterpretation of the First Amendment. But beyond the public square, Christmas is rapidly being replaced with a generic holiday that, by coincidence, comes around December 25."

As far as I can tell, the only Christmas television cartoon (of the many) that still has the real message of Christmas in it is a Charlie Brown Christmas. When I was growing up there was one called "The Night the Animals Talked" about the manager scene. But it has long since gone away.

Beyond what we are losing of the real meaning of Christmas in America today, it is the true loss of our Christian heritage that troubles me most. Historical revisionism has taken over in many areas of academia and journalism. (For the doubters, I would commend the works of Peter Marshall, Jr., David Barton, Dr. Catherine Millard, Gary DeMar or an excellent book titled "Never Before in History, America’s Inspired Birth" by Gary Amos and Richard Gardiner.) If you go back and read the writings of our Founding Fathers it is clear that our country was given birth by people the vast majority of whom were Christian. It was their faith that motivated them. Wrote John Quincy Adams–our sixth president–"The highest glory of the American Revolution is this: it connected, in one dissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." That is why for nearly two centuries we had prayer and Bible reading in our schools. Nobody thought anything about it. The Christian religion was part and parcel of the American social fabric.

For some reason, many people today want to censor out anything Christian about America’s past.

Two years ago I was reading the fourth grade history book my daughter was learning from. We came to the section about the Mayflower Compact. The book spent three pages discussing this document without having the actual document itself included. The textbook stressed solely the document’s emphasis on how William Bradford and the pilgrims were to order self government. I thought that curious, why not print the Mayflower Compact itself instead of spending so much time talking about what the Mayflower Compact said? What is the length, I wondered? It must be too long to be included. It had been several years since I had read it, so I looked it up again in the encyclopedia . Nope. Not too long. It’s actually very brief, maybe 200 words long. It must have been a cold day on Cape Cod. No time to sit around making something long and wordy when it didn’t need to be. But, after reading it was clear why it was excluded from my child’s public school textbook. The word "God" is used four times in a positive context. Add that to the explicit phrase found in the middle of the Compact which states "...for the glory of God, and the advancement of the Christian faith..." as the primary reason for the pilgrims coming to this land, then I knew why it had been omitted.

There is also a move under way today to change the way we measure years from A.D. and B.C. to something called "common era." The abbreviation A.D. is from the Latin Anno Domini, which means "in the year of our Lord." Events before that time are indicated by the abbreviation B.C., which means "before Christ." The CE folks are using the same 2000 years, just taking any identification with Jesus Christ out of it. Coming soon to textbooks near you.

As you can see, this has gotten ridiculous.

The A&E channel is running a very good four hour documentary on the second millennium of Christianity. It is clear from viewing the two part series that no other force had more impact on the development of western civilization and our early American way of life than did Christianity.

Now I’m waiting for the American Civil Liberties Union to bring a suit against the United States of America on the grounds that the Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional because Thomas Jefferson penned the word "Creator" with a capitol C in it. It might not be too long before we see the headline: "Supreme Court rules Declaration of Independence Unconstitutional, Document to be Removed from National Archives."

 

The Battle of Mons took place in the First World War and there were no US forces involved as it took place in 1914, three years before America entered the war.

www.firstworldwar.com/battles/mons.htm

 

I agree with Mightyyid on the whole.

Policies that are being demonstrated at present only work against a harmonised multi-racial society.
As said before by previous threads, be proud of the country you decide to call home and integrate. When you go to a country to live you adhere by the cultures and ways of that country as much as possible, without compromising your own identities and backgrounds of course.

If you cannot accept the culture or the way of life of that country you have the choice to choose another country that may be more suited.

Saying that, when you go abroad you always expect the person to speak English. Why should they?

 

Rubbish, if you bought a villa in Spain and moved out there you wouldnt adopt the spanish culture and way of life. Well some might... The difference is though when an Englander moves to another country generally theyre well off and not looking for handouts....

We expect people to speak English abroad because its Europes second language.... Most people abroad speak English hence we're lucky and dont need to make as big an effort to learn another language as other countries, whats the point in learning French when you visit France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Greece etc... ?

 

Dave, just to pick you up on this but many emigrants from the UK don't even bother to learn the rudiments of Spanish over there which really winds me up but what is even worse they fail to register as residents which causes two problems:

Firstly, the local town halls are funded on the local population which if not registered affects their funding negatively.

Secondly, when the coffin dodgers use the Spanish health service the Spanish are unable to recoup their costs from the British government forcing Spaniards to increase their contributions to cover those of the ignorant Brits who, although well off, can't be arsed to go through the most basic of bureaucratic processes.

You can imagine the ill feeling this ferments in what is one of the poorest regions (Andalucia) of Spain.

I agree although I'd argue that English was Europe's first language and although there is very little need to learn a second language if you are a native English speaker (unless you live there) I'd suggest that Spanish would be a good starting point as after English it is the most widely spoken language.

 

So you're saying you'd be a Brit abroad Davegtt, reject that country's way of life or culture and insist you lived exactly as you would have done back here?

What would be your reasons for moving out there then? So you can get a 365 day tan? So you can say to your mates back home you have a villa in spain? You enjoy Paella that much?

I know that if I made such a life changing decision as to move to another country I would WANT to feel part of that country and get involved in their way of life or culture as much as possible.
If you don't won't you always feel like someone on the periphery - a foreigner dare I say?

 

Im not disagreeing with any of this, not sure I see the point of your post???? or is it just a generalist passing statement?

Although Europe isnt a country, its a continent remember, each individual country has its own first language, the countries as a whole in Europe use English as the 2nd common language.

Problem with picking Spanish as a good starting point is you have to remember Spanish is the most common language because of so many latin countries in the South American region rather than Spain alone. there are many variations of spanish from what I recall when I was learning it at school.

 

I used Spain as an example, probably a bad example because Id suggest the majority of people moving out there if not working in a bar filled with Brits anyhow would probably be retirement folk, who no, dont adopt the Spanish way of life. the spanish way of life is a siesta during hot hours of the day where as the average retired brit abroad would be on a permentant siesta, and those that are working over there are in Brit dominated areas such as Benidorm as a quick example of the top of my head. 18-30s working in bars full of english folk....

Take somewhere like Germany for example then... I dont know, lets say the average person moved out there to live and work, course you'd have to learn to speak the lingo if you want to be accepted and find a job there but I can't see your lifestyle changing dramatically... can you? You'd still fancy a traditional English Breakfast wouldnt you rather than what the average German would eat for breakie? What culture would you have to adopt and change your way off life moving to somewhere like that? pretty much none. The main problem lies with extremely different countries like Iraq etc and lets be honest, not many people would want to move out there and take up that way off life so its hard to do a role reversal.

 

Your original point was that most British emigrants to Spain are not looking for handouts and that they don't need to assimilate. I'm pointing out that although they are do generally have a higher income that doesn't mean they shouldn't assimilate to some degree and because they don't it causes problems. How many times have you been into a garage where the guy on the counter can't speak English properly? It winds me up so it will have the same effect abroad.

Castillian Spanish is the same the world over although and just as in English, there are local dialects and accents so its not that difficult to learn. Ultimately, people emigrate for a perceived improvement in their quality of life but all too often it they end up taking more than they give which invariably leads to resentment by the idiginent population.

 

no no no, I never said dont learn the language did I... Although in general most Spaniards etc are very tollerant (more so than us) and acknowledge that your making the effort to speak their language even if your gash at it...

I know its not difficult to learn, I did it for a few years at school and enjoyed the language, Ive let most of it slip now though but would love to take the time out and go to college on a night course or something to learn it, just for the sake of it, even though Italian and German would be more useful to my work...lol

 

Actually Andy, it should only be referred to as the Union Jack if it's hanging of the back of a Naval vessel (whilst in port IIRC), when it's flying anywhere else it is indeed correct to refer to it as the Union Flag

 

too right they should remove the word christmas and call it holiday instead. 99% of people here think christmas is when you give presents, get drunk, watch loads of telly, be with family...nothing religious about it, so call it holiday. Christ would be turning in his grave seeing how people 'celebrate' his birth.

and someone mentioned about other religions and the days they take off for it. I once got asked by a boss that as I'm taking off jewish holy days then I'd be working christmas. I said of course, but for the fact that they are public holidays..if they wern't then I'm sure all non christians (err nearly everyone) would work.

redfive, brit in japan and all the others that try to get people to think correctly...good luck to you but its not worth it.

 

I've never thought of it like that - good point.

 

Fair play brezhnev, the "Battle of Mons" was during the First World War fought by the British Expeditionary Force. I'd done a Google search and there was fighting in and around Mons during the Second World War too, but then that's probably no surprise as the whole of western Europe was under occuation.

Thanks for the correction.

 

You're both correct. Having had this debate several times its almost impossible to prove which is correct, although I side with you.

 

I am proud to be English and British.

I find it very upsetting to see both going down the tubes under the influence of the sorry bunch who pander to Billy and also the PC idiots who spend their days thinking up new edicts to try to justify their existence and to also confuse our immigrants who cannot understand what the fuss is all about.

Les

 

WTF is bar bar black sheep?



Judging by this and your poor English I'd advise sitting next to your son at school and pick up some modern education

Baa, baa, black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir,
Three bags full.

One for the master,
One for the dame,
And one for the little boy
Who lives down the lane.

Baa, baa, black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir,
Three bags full.

 

Chap

I stand corrected - never knew that and am glad I do now. I suppose tradition got in the way of correctness, so thanks.

Andy

PS who says you don't learn on this forum...

 

All the same we should still salute to it whatever you call it, OUR national flag carries either a white background with a red cross in red, or red, white and blue of the union jack/flag.

It doesn't have any green in it, so if you're so proud to fly a pakistani flag in your car or wherever **** off back there where it belongs

 

It doesn't have any green in it, so if you're so proud to fly a pakistani flag in your car

How do you fly a flag in your car?

or wherever **** off back there where it belongs[/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE]
They hang off the rearview mirror deep, have a look around son you'll spot 'em

HTH

 

Ah, so you are just one more chav then. You really are new around here (and in the galaxy) aren't you ?

Good luck with your "flag".

 

They hang off the rearview mirror deep, have a look around son you'll spot 'em

HTH [/QUOTE]

No Pakistanis where I live Robbie. Just good old white folk like me.

 

Turned out nice again hasnt it?