Ken 275

Sorry Guys, after reading this thread I've changed my opinion twice.

There was a Fat-Ac near to me recently, and the usual (these days) football colours on display at the site of the crash.

The car was driven by someone who had no DL, without consent of the owner (I believe) and was being chased by a marked traffic car. I wonder how the Police car lost sight FFS.

Driver killed and three passengers survived.

I have little sympathy. You take a car, get chased by the Police and smack a wall. You jeopardise the passengers, other motorists and any walkers-by.

The term "Joy-Riders" should be deleted from all memories as they are just thieves.

K.

easyrider

Totally agree Paul.

A good friend of mine was one of the first on scene(Ambulance),it wasnt pretty to put it very mildly.Very upsetting for them, but unfortunately they have to deal with it.I take my hat off to any of the services that have to deal with this type of incident-i should imagine there will be a few restless nights for a good few of them.
My thoughts also go to the families involved, at the end of the day, weather the kids/families were good or bad, loved ones have been lost, end of....
I also hope others learn from this, but as Paul said, i doubt it.As harsh/sick as it may seem-kids caught going down this route should be shown video footage of this stuff, as im sure it would have a lasting vision in their heads of the possible results of their actions.

warrenm2

Not this old chestnut!! The reason is that the UK has the highest crime rate and has actually below average prisoners per 1000 crimes. Spain imprisons 4 times as many criminals as England and Wales

David Lock

Yeah that old chestnut. There's about 1000 things you can read into that dodgy old chart. Not sure where Costa del Crime fits into this

si_5

Granted, none of them should have been out that late or been in a stolen car, but these kids have obviously not had a good/similar upbringing like you and I. And so this comes down to the Parents involvement, but kids will always rebel, some more than others and to different extremes. Also everybody makes mistakes when they are young and it has to do with the kind of people they are and the friends they associate with.

What makes you think that the passengers didn't want the driver to pull over while in pursuit? In a Police Chase situation (or just when anyone gets in a car) the driver is always taking responsibility for the safety of the passngers because they are the one in control of the vehicle.
The driver is possibly the one who took the biggest risk initially of breaking in the car and then driving it. It is possible that the driver was going through such an intense state of mind, he wasn't willing to get caught and at the same time disregarding the passengers own life's through his driving.

Also, 2 alternative endings...

The driver dies. 4 kids probably won't feel the same about getting in a car, but may well be willing to change for the better as their m8, just died. I'm sure at the age of 14, seeing someone close to you mangled dead as I'm sure they were, is definately going to do something to you.

or

All passengers die. The driver is now responsible for the deaths of the others in the car. Whatever way you look at it, his life is over, trust me.

So that leads me to ask you this...

If someone (the passengers in this case) makes a big mastake so early in their life because of the life/society they were brought up in, not by choice but just by it happening to them. And say the driver died, do you think that the passengers deserve a second chance? Or do you think riddens to them, they should have gone with the driver?

Simon

leonpoole

Its nothing to do with heartlesness. At the end of the day when i was a kid i knew the difference between right and wrong and would never of imagined getting in a stolen car.

Brit_in_Japan

There's a lot of assumptions being made on here to justify why people think these kids got their just deserts. The fact is we know almost nothing about these kids or the families.
- Did all of the kids who died know that the car was stolen? We don't know.
- Did the parents of those kids know they were out at that time? We don't know.

I remember from my school days stories of friends who used to get drunk at the age of 15 or 16 and think it good fun to go for a drive around the country lanes in a parents car in the early hours. These weren't bad kids, or kids from bad homes as you might usually define them. They simply went a bit wild because they were given more freedom than they should have been and they abused that freedom.

As might have been expected sooner or later, they stuffed a car. Luckily no-one was hurt and no third party was involved. And it's fair to say that when the parents found out the **** really hit the fan. And when they came to school and told us about it, rather than bragging rights, we told them they were idiots, pr!cks of the highest order. They didn't do it again.

These were kids from good families and went to a normal comprehensive. Out of that group I believe one is now a solicitor, one an architect and one a university lecturer.

So what's the point of my little story? My point is that we know very little about those involved, certainly not enough to say that they all deserved to die. If one person with a history of car theft, TWOC etc had killed himself then I suspect that there would be little tears shed outside his immediate family. But kids often do stupid things without thinking of the consequences. What is certain is that those five who died have no second chance, and that is a tragedy.

leonpoole

When i was a kid i wouldn't of dared get in a stolen car. They obviously got in the car without a second thought so i have no sympathy for the scum

Turbohot

Havent read the whole thread nor did i follow the news on this matter.
Cars can be bought again but lives cant be re-gained ever! I'm not supporting any theiving tendency here but my heart still goes out to the parents and relatives of those ignorant people who committed such a crime and ended up with such a tragic end.

Leslie

Despite the fact that the car was stolen and that they seem to have been running from the police, they did not deserve to die for the offence. The driver was being particularly irresponsible of course and thank goodness no one else was involved, but it is morally wrong to wish death upon any of them.

Les

Iwan

Exactly, when i was a kid my mates and I did plenty of silly 'youthful' things, e.g. we bought a 50cc bike from a scrapper and used to hoon around the fields (never on the roads) on it. But there was always a line for us, and it was FAR short of nicking cars and joyriding. I mean ffs in my close circle of friends we never even pinched from shops.

mightyyid

Fellas - bit harsh so to say all 5 deserved to die when in my book, no-one deserves to die but some to bring it upon themselves - but to put all 5 people in the same category as the driver is unfair. How do we know that the three in the back for example weren't shouting at the driver to slow, etc etc.

I agree getting into a stolen car is stupid, but to say that any person who gets into a stolen car (who may or may not know it is stolen) and then loses their life deserves it is a OTT really. It;s wrong, but a death sentence? Come on....

the moose

The police don't do a full-on chase, you know. They actively try to stop this sort of outcome occurring; they know the car, will have seen the registration plate, and will drop back to ensure the pursued driver doesn't get out of their depth.

Tragically, there are a load of people who think that an overloaded shopping trolley driven by an inexperienced kid is a match for (typically) a T5 with a vastly trained police officer on board.

Big Den

Come on, did all of the kids know it was stolen, next you'll be saying that they thought the driver was actually 17 and had passed his test and was fully insured!!

If you want to speculate, because as you say 'we don't know' then:

How do we know the driver wasn't being encouraged by the others to try & get away? We don't know
Had they also been drinking? We don't know
Perhaps the parents knew their kids were out at this time but just didn't care? We don't know
Maybe this was the normal weekend entertainment - steal a car & go for a drive - we don't know.
How many times had they done and indeed been caught doing this before? We don't know

The 'we don't know' list could be endless and we probably will never learn the full facts.

What we do know is:

5 Teenagers aged 14 to 16 were in a stolen car
None of them were old enough to be legally driving -Therefore, no insurance
They were out after midnight at such a young age - unsupervised
They failed to stop for the Police
The driver lost control
They were all killed
Fortunately they did not kill or injure any other people (possibly aided by the fact it was in the early hours)

Just bear in mind that they could have involved others in their selfish & inconsiderate act - ploughing into a bus or taxi queue; hitting other motorists; etc.

Yes, unnecessary deaths are tragic especially in those so young but, they did bring it upon themselves by their actions.

Maybe as has been suggested this type of incident should be shown to other offenders and perhaps it's time the governmemt got tougher and put more resources into preventing/combating this instead of the concentrating on revenue generation from scameras - IMO

Den

Diablo

Too ******* right I would.

Car theft would practically dissapear overnight.

Diablo

Ken, that wasn't the one in Dumbarton, was it?

Brendan Hughes

In a year's time, when (not if) his personality changes, and he's out late, and gets a lift in a car after he's downed 3 cans of Tennents for a dare (so not thinking straight), and he dies in a car crash - would you say "Good, he's dead"? What would you think about a load of other people saying that?

Reality

When I heard this on the news last night I said to the wife;

"That's two less car thieves and three less teenage pregnancies to worry about - Is there any real news on ?"

Sorry but I couldn't give a **** if the scum knew the car was stolen or any other such bollox - The ***** got what they deserved - end of.

Too many of these cases involve passers by getting killed and the drivers surviving to be "punished" with 6 months tagged while cleaning bogs !

Shame the Police / Ambulance have to deal with all this ****e !

shaunywrx

[/QUOTE] I repeat. This is NO LOSS to British Society.[/QUOTE]




I think this sums it up correctly, i'm not saying it was'nt a tragic thing that happened, but at the end of the day, i like to think of it as the modern day worlds version of "natural selection", if you're stupid enough to get in a car (stolen or otherwise) with some one, who has'nt taken a test and had any experience of driving a car, you're putting yourself in quite a risky situation straight away, and are obviously not one of the sharpest pencils in the box.
I do however, have some (limited) sympathy for the parents and families involved, although they should have known where there children were, and what sort of things they were getting up to, at that time of the day.

Leslie

They were very young for goodness sake, The sort of age where people can be wild especially without proper parental control. Most people go through a similar stage as they approach independence!

Reality,

Why do you feel you have to apologise for your view-surely you either believe it or you don't!

Les

Diablo

Leslie,

I was probably wild as a teenager, and if I had crashed and died, it would have been entirely of my own doing. Christ, just because they were young doesn't mean they don't have the power of reason.

Whem I was 13, I drove my mothers car to the end of the road and back. I KNEW it was wrong, and I was crapping myself the whole time.

darts_aint_sport

I would argue that most people don't go through that wild a stage at that age. Criminals maybe, but not most head-screwed-on people.

Reality

Not everybody (especially on here) thinks that everybody else is entitled to their own opinion. Just trying to stop them having a go at me by getting in my apology first .

TopBanana

It seems to me that the complete lack of compassion expressed here is the insidious root of the rot in our society, not a few young kids who stupidly nicked a car for kicks. I find it disgusting that anyone can take comfort in this sad affair - you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Flatcapdriver

Conversely, condoning or excusing their behaviour will be seen by some as the insidious rot in our society - if it is rotting that is.

TopBanana

I don't recall anyone in this thread condoning their behaviour, and I don't imagine anyone would.

JTaylor

Astonishing, even the Taliban considered death to be a step too far as a punishment for theft. They only removed a limb for the perpetrators sins. In fact I'm sure many have seen the various snippets of footage smuggled out of Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc were "justice" is being administered. Diablo, your role would be that of the bearded man in the white tunic looking into the horrified eyes of the young theif just before you ended his life. A slit to the throat is a preferred method...... the garggling stops after about a minute and within two the flickering eyes become still.

Brit_in_Japan

The point I was making is that people have been damning all the kids in the car without knowing the facts, facts which may never be known now as the five concerned are now dead. I wasn't speculating and I was hoping people would moderate some of their statements which are based on speculations. I certainly wasn't inviting a new set of speculations.

If you read my earlier post you might have picked up on the fact that kids do stupid things. Those friends of mine took a parents car without permission, whilst underage and after drinking and they stuffed it. They were lucky, but some on here would probably say the world would have been better off if they'd killed themselves and not gone on to be the upstanding members of society they now are. Can you see my point?

For the record it's now been revealed that one of the occupants was 17, though no mention if they were the driver.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Some of the replies on this thread are shocking and really quite saddening.

5 young lives were lost, how anyone can view that as anything but sad is beyond me.

Is our society that barbaric that we celebrate the death of 5 teenagers (albeit joy-riders)?

Reality

Yep.

I blame the tree huggers !