Adam M

Let me get this straight,

you opted out of buying an impreza because a few people posting on ONE subaru related site annoyed you? Sounds like you really have your priorities right when it comes to choosing your next car!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

It's when people come on here and make no attempt to write correctly. My head starts spinning trying to de-code 'sms' type messages. If people can't be bothered to write in a clear manner then why should people give clear responses?


Bob.

PS. A Fiat Coupe is not quicker than most UK Imprezas, but that's a separate topic and has been done before.

al125

iTrader: (2)

Harvey
Nice one for the link gives me some stuff to think about. I don't know what you put in the old post but from memory it was no think bad.

Adam M
I think what was meant was that if you take all the negative aspects of this post then put it all together then that is what people stereotypically believe all Scooby owners are like. this is not true as the have been some people on this post that have been helpful but for some one to post on here for the first time asking for advice and get no think but **** taking and sarcastic comments then you see the problem.

BOB'5
Is this aimed at me and if so why?

PS. his one is

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I know it was nothing bad and that is why I am puzzled. I have had no reason to say anything bad.........other than the truth which sometimes hurts

Craig_g

lol..... nice one al,

As Al said, the main subaru forum is where people who are new to subarus come to get information and help to build an understanding of the car(s). When a question is asked, people expect advice.......not **** taking. This is seriously what put me off buying an Impreza. At the end of the day, if I had a problem with my car, I'd want people to help, NOT take the ****. As I've stated, it's not all of you but there is always a select few who spoil it for everyone.

BOB'5, is my spelling and grammer o.k.?
P.S. mine has had a bit more work since that dyno run, plus the exhaust manifold was blowing at the time.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

al125: No.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Craig
I'll answer seriously if I think the post is not a wind up - the list of mods in this example is soo stupid that it must be a wind up

al125

iTrader: (2)

Fangoria

Let me get this straight, you are basically calling me a lier?

Craig_g

Fangoria, why is the list of parts stupid?

ZEN Performance

The problem with the spec list is that it has been put together by someone that doesn't know enough. It has come from about 4 different sources, and there is a lot of stuff in there that is redundant because there are higher spec parts also in the list.

I would say that you need to figure it from the top down. Power is ultimately limited by the turbo, so start there, and move onto the parts needed to support the power everything needed to support these key parts.

If you want to go for 500hp from the start, you have some of the right parts, but you can weed a lot of stuff out. If you want to do it in a few stages, to get things like a new ECU system up and running, then you need careful planning to avoid doing the same job twice but in a different way. For instance you can install a big turbo on any engine, and get all the installation problems out the way, and test things like the fuel system, ECU and boost control at a low power level. Only when you have all the relavent parts ready, do you really need to put your high spec engine into the car, to run for full power.

I can quite see why some people haven't contributed to this thread. If someone askes me what's required for 500hp, it's a long list, some of it is essential and some nice to have, but you need to see the big picture in order to be successful. Once you have your power, how are you going to transmit it? How are you going to stop and get the car to handle? How are you going to reliably get fuel into the engine?

The finishing of such a project takes TIME, lots of it. If you look at Mikee's setup, he has arguably some of the best results given his spec, but it works because everything on his car works together nicely.

The right shopping list doesn't make the car.

Paul

al125

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Paul, wich parts of the list would you change and apart from the HKS Fuel cut and HKS down pipe wich outher bit will become redundent due to uprated parts.

Craig_g

There has already been about £8k spent on this engine before this rebuild. I am not totally sure what has gone into this, but i do know, befor this rebuild, it was quick. and the lad who owns the car loved his two blue screen 'thingys' (apexi avc-r and afc II iirc)

al, why don't you put together a full spec list?

al125

iTrader: (2)

Because i carn't remember it all

Craig_g

lol

Put what you know of it together and the rest will come.

al125

iTrader: (2)

The full list might look like this:



Twin Up rated 255LPH Walbro fuel pump with possible swirl pot

SX up rated fuel reg

Modified fuel rail with equal fuel distribution

850cc injectors

4 brand new coil packs

HKS 40I spark plugs

HKS SPF induction kit

HKS tubular manifold

Custom exhaust up and down pipes

Custom DP Motorsport 3" down pipe back with single rear can ( no cat )

GT30R turbo

HKS FMI

Turbosmart external waste gate

Apexi power FC and remote commander

Apexi AVCR boost controller running 2 - 2.2 bar

WRX bottom end

Bored and honed closed deck block

HKS 2.2L stoker kit

API STI version IV head's and cam gear

API light weight cam pulleys
API 14mm stood kit

API Triple layer metal head gasket

API up rated engine mounts

API up rated 6 speed box with prop, viscose rear dif and shaft's

Exedy lightened fly and duel plate carbon clutch

325mm Brembo discs with gold 4 pot Brembo calipers

Performance friction Carbonmatalic front pads

New STD rear discs with EBC Redstuff ceramic pads

Goodrich braded brake lines

Oil cooler with relocation filter kit

Front and rear upper strut braces with front lower as well

API coil over kit made by the same place as Cusco

New drop links all round

17" Wolfrace alloys with 215/40/r17 Toyo TS1's

ZEN Performance

Up rated 225LPH Walbro fuel pump you will need something more to ensure reliability
FSE power boost valve it's just a fuel pressure regulator, get a decent one, something like an SX, Aeromotive, Fuellab or Sard

Modified fuel rail Modified for what? threaded fittings I guess, nice but not essential

740cc injectors Yup!

4 brand new coil packs if it's an early car, they may not be enough to provide a reliable spark at high boost

HKS fuel cut defense not required

HKS 40I spark plugs would use HKS plugs if you paid me to, they have a habit of exploding

HKS SPF induction kit no need for a model specific induction kit, sort a suitable filter and inlet once the turbo model and location is decided

HKS tubular manifold needlessly expensive compared to the alternatives

HKS group N down pipe downpipe may be custom unit, or specific to turbo model and location

Custom DP Motorsport 3" down pipe back with single rear can ( no cat )

GT30R turbo

HKS FMIC expensive option unless you want to use it in standard form

Turbosmart external waste gate good but pricey

Apexi power FC and remote commander need to add a MAF converter or use a non MAF based ECU with the large turbo

Apexi AVCR boost controller runing 2 - 2.2 bar [i]good choice of controller, but you won't need that much boost[i]

WRX bottom end

Bored and honed closed deck block yup

HKS 2.2L stoker kit nothing special

API STI version IV head's and cam gear heads could come from anywhere, I would think seriously about replacing all the valves for something stronger

API 14mm stood kit overkill, you shouldn't need more than 12mm with the correct head gasket, and an ARP stud kit should do the job without any machining of the block required

API Triple layer metal head gasket cometic item most likely, thickness will depend on the way the engine build goes

API up rated engine mounts STI uprated engine mounts

API up rated 6 speed box with prop, viscose rear dif and shaft's okay for track use in standard form, but go with 5speed box with uprated gearkit if you want to drag race due to ratios and weight

Exedy lightend fly and dule plate carbon clutch don't touch the carbon clutch, it's pants, go with the exedy cermetallic twin plate for less money and better performance

325mm Brembo discs with gold 4 pot Brembo calipers put some decent brakes on, for the money you may as well buy AP or Stoptech, cheaper in the long term

Performance friction Carbonmatalic front pads if you want to trash your wheels and discs, there are other solutions, but better off buying proper full kit

New STD rear discs with EBC Redstuff ceramic pads Jury's still out on the redstuff

Goodrich braded brake lines yup, but some brake kits come with lines

You need to think about:

Oil cooler
Gauges to monitor engine, water temp, oil temp and oil pressure, preferably EGT
Quality fluids, the right oils make a difference
What compression ratio to build the engine with?
What valves to run that won't snap?
What inlet manifold and intercooler pipe arrangment to use?
Ignition module, perhaps a CDI unit of some sort like an MSD DIS-4 for instance.
What diffs will you fit? Standard viscous ones may be okay for some, but to get the most from the car you may want to fit STI plated or Quaiffe parts.
Suspension and handling?

But most of all, you need to look at EVERYTHING together.

Paul

R19KET

al125,

Please can you give us a list of only what you have so far (engine related). Please don't include ANYTHING you don't have.

That way we can see what you have that will work, and what you may need to get.

For example, you don't need two blocks,

WRX bottom end
Bored and honed closed deck block
HKS 2.2L stoker kit

Do you already have the HKS stroked engine ?

Mark.

ZEN Performance

al125,

I see you have updated your list, it's looking a little better.

I'm going to be blunt here.

If you want 500hp, then you're best option is to go somewhere that can supply all or nearly all of the parts together in such a way as they are definitely going to work together. Buying bits from here there and everywhere, unsure of why or for what purpose is fraught with danger and hidden cost. Speak to some people that have done this sort of thing before, with a subaru, and know the problems you are going to run into. Even if you do the work yourself, getting the right parts that will work together properly is going to be a good start, and that doesn't necessarily mean the best of each type of part.

Paul

al125

iTrader: (2)

Paul, be for i start can i thank you very much for takeing the time to give me some realy good advice and for you input. You are What this post was surpose to be about.



Going for a twin set up now with a swerl pot





The SX one is now the plan as i belive they will run upto 8bar if needed



This was not for the look but for an equal distrobution of fuel between the injectors as i was told with the OE set up 2 run lean and 2 run rich. Just 3 Y peices realy





Now droped in favour of 850cc



This is one of the over looked things that we need to ...... well look at LOL





One word ...... E-bay





And i though the Denso stuff was good, Recomendation PLZ but i think i already know you guys like the NGK's



On the car already but as you say it may well have to go and the ABS is a right pain to work around.



Is the HKS one any good? What would you pay for a HKS one for it to be worth it? What are the outher options as the Megan ones are ****



E-bay ....... Custom pipeing to replace it



Fitted 12 month ago mate, dose look good tho.





As long as it's good Oh and the price was not that Bad.



As far as i know this is all taken care of



It gave me some think to talk about down the pub mate. Yeh i know it may be a bit much but 1.8bar+ is what we were going to go for



The WRX bottom on this car had a closed deck block anyway but it has been honed for the 2.2 KIT



It was not much more than forged pistons and steal rods so not a bad move i though. The is up rated burings in there as well.



I found it hard to find them and API had a set of reworked that he said would be fine for the power. Don't no if they are the OE valves and springs so will look into that mate.



May be over kill but no harm in being careful. I was led to belive this would be needed if the engine was to remain reliable ( stay in one pice )



This is true and not defonate, the compretion ratio will be looked at and a gasget selceted to suite.



There the ones



The 6 speed has been bought and it was for the strenth over any think els. Dave at API has these box's on car's with over 500Ft Lb with plated Diff's and they hold up fine.



This has not been bought yet and i am willing to go with you recomendation.





Money at the time mate, they can be sold on at a later date and replaced with some AP 6POTS



So the pads are no good then? have you tried them? What did you think?



Redstuff are Sh!te IMO and will be off the car soon





This is just to make the curent set up work as AP 6 pots will bo on at a later date



These exact 3 gauges are going in from the Defi range with the Defi link



Taken every think on bord and again mate thanks alot, this is what the Scoobynet forum should be all about

Oh yeh, thermal washers for the expantion tank to stop heat transfer to the intake manifold, thermal spacers to space the intake manifold from the block and may be a 180 rotation of the intake as well. What do you guys think about rotating the intake?

al125

iTrader: (2)

I will get the list of were we are upto tomorow and post it up, The closed deck block is the WRX one that was on the car already so no mate just one block.

ZEN Performance

A rotated inlet manifold isn't essential, but it can be nice to have. See how you go with the turbo side of things first, a GT30 can be fitted in a number of ways, it is something you could change later. STI valves "should" be okay for the power, but probably best used with the STI cams and springs. If you want to go uprated cams (beyond STI) and valve springs, then I would recommend uprated valves at the same time. But for the goals of this project I would stick with the STI complete heads and be a little conservative on the mapping side, don't run it too lean.

I think you are on a better path, and have a much better understanding of what's going on since the first post good luck.

Paul

al125

iTrader: (2)

Paul, can you tell me what you think of the HKS manifold and what would be a good price to get it for, also what you think of the Performance friction pads. Cheers mate

AlanG

What are you aiming to do with the car? Road? track? 1.4 mile? Are you aiming to go beyond 500bhp?

Just wondered with your comments on fuel set up i.e. twin pumps and swirl pot and 850 injectors.

I own a 500bhp classic, built as a road car only, but run a single pump and 740's, hence the curiosity.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

al125 : To help you with your spelling. Not lier but liar.
There is a very easy way to remember this : Tony Blair = Bliar.


As with Alan above, there is no need for 850 cc injectors. 740s are good to nearly 600 bhp. No need for twin fuel pumps and a swirl pot. Keep it simple, it helps on the budget and it adds to the reliability if properly speced in the first place and installed properly.
Paul/Zen seems to think there is a problem with a single Walbro. There will be a reason but I have no doubts as yet that a single Walbro is good for over 500 bhp but my choice would be a Bosche Motorsport pump.

No offence intended but from your posts to date, you are not displaying a great knowledge or understanding of what is required, hence your need for help. As Paul explained so clearly, it is not just a bit from here and a bit from there. It all needs to come together and compliment each other part/modification.
Paul says you should start at the turbo and work on from there. I start at the bottom and work up as that is most logical for me.
Most things designed by committe do not work too well IMHO so while you might get various interesting ideas on here and enjoy the banter, unless you just want to dream on, you need to decide who is likely to be a competant engine builder and start talking to them. Look at their track record. What have they built. What is their sucess record and what are their failures. It all needs to come together and if you choose the right builder/specifier, you are ahead already as they have done it before and know what works. You can always ask questions as to why or what if.

There are enough ideas on here already to thin it down to a workable spec/plan/solution.

Finally, don't waste their time or yours if you have not got the budget together, but, if you have and make a sensible approach and it is clear you are serious and funded , I am sure you will get their full attention. People putting together serious specs always have to wonder if this is just another dreamer? Some people like to kick tyres, some guys go to the pub, others play with the keyboard etc but you will need to establish your credibility.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Not calling anyone a liar - a few years back we used to have people on here who did this as a wind up (serious!)

Paul has gone through in more detail
and as AlanGarrod states - need to u/stand the real purpose I guess

Alan - 500bhp, really?

al125

iTrader: (2)

Primarily this car will be a fast road car but he would like to be able to both Track and 1/4 Mile in it as well. I think the is the plans and the money to take it further next year and as you dont want to double handle any thing the last thing you want to happen is find the new 740cc injector that you put in only 6 month ago are maxed out.

R19KET

Al,

740's are good for circa 600bhp, and can be modified to flow 1000cc, good for circa 800bhp.

Having tested a LOT of injectors, IMHO, I would strongly suggest that a minimum of 3.5bar/atmospheric is run on these injectors. 4bar would be better.

With regard to fuel pumps, the Walbro is "marginal" at these levels, and whilst some people will get away with using one, others won't. I would agree with Harvey, and fit a Bosch '044 pump, or similar.

The HKS manifold is expensive, and there are various options, including HKS copies, that will cost about 1/2 the money, and work just as well.

Don't fall into the trap of buying Jap' brands for the wrong reasons !

There are lots of products out there, that are as good, or better, that will save you a fortune.

Mark.

AlanG

You've been away too long Steve..

525bhp / 560Ib ft on a GT30R

AlanG

al125.

I'm still intending to keep the 740's if i go further with this engine (clutch dependant) and probably use the same pump which is in-tank (not a Walbro), though if you're going to do track, 1/4 mile stuff perhaps the external pump would be a better option.

al125

iTrader: (2)

TBH mate i dont have the time to mess round on the net as all my spare time is spent on my car, i know what you mean and would think twice myself be for wasteing my time replying to what could be some one ******* around. This mate of mine realy dose not have net accses so i am doing him a favour by asking what he can't.


740cc it is then.
I think 1 Walbro will be tryed and if it's no good then a 2dd will go in. The XS fule reg will now be the one to use and about 4bar is what it will be runing. Every one keeps saying that the HKS manifold cost to much for what it is and that the is beter out ther for less so can any one point me in the right direction.


Nice one mate, that is the sort of thing we are hopeing for.