At least we don't get to work out our own Taxes!

Hold on a minute.....

Naaaaah. I see a problem here.

 

F**k all this TV licence crap, who gives a **** about licencing fees right now. This is about punative fuel taxes.

I just hate it when a thread goes OT.

This protest IS happening NOW and it affects us ALL.

I wish some people would just keep their feeble minded thoughts to themselves sometimes. But without restricting freedom of speech mind

Dont buy a TV licence, f*k u must be 16 m8. Yeah, lets all run about with handguns, wae no road tax and hold up the petrol stations.

I thought as mainly Scooby drivers the fuel crisis/tax topic might be as close to home as you could get.

But hey, I only spend £3500 in petrol costs, just to drive to work mind. Paaa, track days, couldny afford it.

Jye (lets keep the humour out of a serious topic, and if I want this kind of humour Ill ask my neighbours five year old to tell me a joke)

p.s. In fact, thats insulting a five year old



[This message has been edited by Jye (edited 13 September 2000).]

 

Ok, sorry....back on track here. Question : What would make the typical brit get out into the street and start doing real damage.....say a real riot, as a form of protest. (not saying you should start one by any means) As stated in my first post, you seem pretty reserved when it comes to emotional topics.....from an outside point of view. It would seem that you will go wild over a soccer match, but not paying thru the **** for petrol. Just curious.

Lovejoy

 

Jye,

> Dont buy a TV licence, f*k u must be 16 m8.

Err, no. Mate ;-)

Craig

 

The last major protests/riots in the UK were for another unfair tax, the POLL TAX.

That was another indescriminate tax on the general public and affected everyone.

The difference then was that we could choose to refuse to pay at the time and force the government to change its policy over time as the money was not coming in and the courts filled up with non-payers.

I was one of the millions who refused to pay the poll tax on principle even though it actually made me better off personally.

It took them 5 years to get any money from me as i fought the *******s all the way, it was people like me that got rid of the poll tax, going allong with what is wrong and just moaning just gets you shafted!! Sometimes the only action that makes things happen is direct action.

Now with petrol tax we have no option, we all use the car for esential reasons and we dont have any option but to pay at the pump.

The hauliers have been negotiating for 3 years and all they have seen is the price rising to the point they will go bankrupt, the time has come to use direct action, what other option did they have???

Just to go OT re the TV license. The detector vans do not have equipment to see you using the TV, they simply have a list of non payers and go knocking on doors.

It always makes me laugh when i see the detector van adverts and on the streets, another case of propoganda brainwashing the public!!!

I am a fully trained electronics engineer in case you wondered, i used to specialise in TV/Audio systems before moving onto Ultrasonics and then into IT. TV's recieve a radio wave signal and demodulate it, they do not transmit.

 

< < OT I thought TV detector vans hunted for the high pitched 'hum' of the high voltage coil in the back of the TV. These things can remain charged for weeks, and emit high fequency sound waves (very directional). The detector van points his arial thingy at houses without a licence and listens for the sound. I think. > >

Back on topic...
yes we could riot, but that doesn't neccessarily help the cause. The idea of blockading the terminals is not only to bring the country to a stand, but it also prevents the government from getting any revenue from petrol!

However, we do now appear to have reached stale-mate:- Tony is not going to give in, and because there is no single organisation to call to into talks (or to list any actual 'demands') the protestors are not going to give in until a definite statement is made to reduce taxes.

While the country is backing the protests, most of us don't know exactly what we are demanding from the government!

I think realistically, we could hope for 5p off each litre in the long term, perhaps 2p to end the blockades?

What cut in tax will end this dispute???

Dave

[This message has been edited by DaveD (edited 13 September 2000).]

 

-- Off topic --

John,

Re: "All they do is look on the database for addreses without a TV license, why do they need all the secret agent bollox?"

So the "detector vans" simply look at the list, stopping at any unlicenses premises, knock on the door, search the entire premises for equipment that is capable of recieving and decoding TV signals and slapping fines/court procedeings on anyone who happens to own said equipment but not a license? Sounds quite Orwellian to me.

I know the gasman has more power with regards to rights of entry at private premisis than a police officer... sounds like the TV licensing guys may secretly run the countries internal intelligence operations!!

Does this database thing mean that anyone who decides not to buy a license (ditch the TV) is then subject to regular inspections from TVLicensing in order to prove they don't watch TV? Do the DVLA demand regular inspections of any vehicles you have registered with a Statutory Off Road Notification in a similar vein? Why is it that the general attitude of the authorities in this country is "Guilty until proven otherwise"?

It's really annoying that you have to buy the licence even if you just want to watch independent channels or cable TV... The BBC has gone way downhill over tha last few years and I still have to fund it even though I don't watch the rubbish it's blurting out these days. Heres a thought... why not get the party in power to subsidise the BBC from it's own money, in recognition of it's loyal propaganda functions, and drop the license fee by 50% or more to everyone else... ... "And now, here is the Nine O clock news, sponsored by New Labour and the Pro Fox Hunting Lobby"...

-- back onto topic --

The BBC does seem to be operating as a pro-Blair propoganda machine at the moment.

Moray

 

Since the BBS is kinda "State" run, what kinda autonomy is there? By some of the posts, I would seem that there is none.

Lovejoy

 

1. TV detector vans are an urban myth.
2. I can't stand adverts - tv or radio.
3. The BBC may be going downhill, but it's still far superior to ITV and Ch5.
4. The media will always over hype stories like these, you need to use your own judgement to some extent.
5. I've still got just over half a tank of SUL.
6. I get to leave work an hour early to pick up my g/f and her daughter as her little Fiesta is dry.
7. I'll get me coat.

Neil.

 

Dave, ROFLMAO.

99.99999% of all houses in the UK have a TV.

All they do is look on the database for addreses without a TV license, why do they need all the secret agent bollox?

 

Graig m8, No offence meant, but are u a senile old git then, lol

I c that that Blair has been wittering on about violence and intimidation. How many times did he actually mention this in his speech? All I saw reported were 2 protesters, who had not used violence or intimidation (especialy as they were surrounded by as many police), being flung in the back of a police van.

Spin, spin, spin, the tosser is still at it, oh sorry I mean ol Alistair has been ramming his fist up Blairs **** again.

I mean this is from a guy who runs a friggin people carrier for his huge family, sods like me canny even contemplate starting a family unless I sell me Scoob and eat beans all year.

Boy did he look like he had aged tho.

 

The only person i know who doesn't have a TV is my Uncle and he most definately is wierd!!! LOL

 

A 40% reduction is a minimum that people should demand as a reduction in the duty on fuel, because if you ask for 5p you will get 2p and if you ask for 10p you will get 4p.

Aim high and then be PREPARED to negotiate, unlike our Prime minister who seems to be above dealing with the general public these days!

 

The TV licensnig people have absolutely no right of entry to a property, unless I guess they have a warrant.

However, I cannot imagine that warrants are granted without some sort of evidence of an offence being committed (i.e. a signal has been fopund to originate from the dwelling)

The TV licensing people annoy us on a regular basis (every year or so).

Them: 'Do you have a TV license?'
Me: 'No'
Them: 'Do you have a TV?'
Me: 'No'
Them: 'Do you mind if I come in and check?'
Me: 'Yes. Goodbye.'

Apparently, if you kick up a fuss (I did!) they will leave you alone for a maximum of 3 years.

The only thing I miss from the TV is the news. The rest of it is mainly crap.

Craig.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by MorayMackenzie:
<B>-- Off topic --

So the "detector vans" simply look at the list, stopping at any unlicenses premises, knock on the door, search the entire premises for equipment that is capable of recieving and decoding TV signals and slapping fines/court procedeings on anyone who happens to own said equipment but not a license? Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


Moray[/quote]

That's almost what happens. The "Detector vans" LOL just trundle around the streets making a show. Its men in suits with clipboards that come a knocking on your door.

Keep the poor uneducated blighters in FEAR, its how religion kept control of the masses in the past and now how the government keeps control of the masses in a technology led world.

If someone tells you something enough times convincingly it becomes the truth, even though it is complete bollox!!

It takes inteligence and effort to analyze and decifer all the bull**** in the world, most people cant be arsed to think for themselves these days.

Someone who thinks, is dangerous to a controll freak establishment like the government or organised religion.

Thats why i love the internet. It allows people to make points that may challenge your preconceptions and brainwashed logic.

Getting a bit deep here but the more you ask why is that so, the more you will understand what is really going on around you.

I have always used that thought process in my work to enable me to understand complex systems. The more i use that logic in daily life the more i see things for what they are.

How many people bother to think about there lives in this way, not many because its easy to sit back and accept the bull****.

 

JF, the world has lost a filosopher AND a good polician on you, now you decided to frig around with Westies & Oracle databases

Just kidding: I agree with your last analysis about 105 %, except for the internet part.

"No truth can be bigger than the brain it has to go through" is a quote from one of my favorite (ok, Dutch) comedians/entertainers.

I would agree if you say: for people who have the guts to think for themselves (and you can get a bit lonely that way ...), the internet is a blessing: so many voices, so many bits of info to analyse, so many paradoxes that make you think even harder ...

But for the rest ... you have to admit that in a post on another forum on another continent, you were a bit surprised to see that the UK was called a "socialist state".

The internet is going to give more food for thought to people who already want to inform themselves, read: that don't have preconceived ideas, or are ready to question everything they "know". It is *not* going to change the numbers of people who do so.

Sorry for the OTishness, but I thought your post was worth commenting on.

Now where's my coat ...

THe Evil One.

 

Dave,

If it is quiet down your way, wanna borrow a video? Doh!

Seriously, I dunno how come we get visited somuch. 3 visits in 3 years, so far (though I am not expecting another one for 2 years or so)

Craig.

 

JohnFelstead
Since you admittedly break the law happily where it does not suit you to abide by it, should you be a moderator??

Since I disagree with many taxes but was not prepared to break the law I like the majority ended up paying YOUR arrears for you - just look carefully at your council tax bill today carefully and you will see the arrears just get loaded on to those that do pay to make up the deficit from those that do not. Thanks.

If you would be so kind as to send me a cheque for a couple of hundred quid to set things right we will hear no more about it.

For similar reasons I am AGAINST the fuel blockades - the livelihoods and freedom of the majority get threatened by the minority. I am particularly against picketing and intimidation - this is just plain bullying and the actions of weak individuals. If anyone is unhappy at Labour's actions (including me) deal with it at the correct forum - the ballot box in the election next year.

Everybody is bleating about petrol prices - well at least 5 or 10 MILLION of you voted them in so now you have to pay the price for it. For the majority of those people that voted them in in the first place to now turn round and cry foul is just hypocrisy!!!

I bet you now Labour STILL get voted in again next year!!

 

Yes i broke the law with regards the Poll Tax, as did Millions of other people in this country.

It is the only time in my life i have done so and i don’t regret it for one minute.

The Poll Tax was damaging the health and welfare of Millions of the less educated and affluent citizens of our country. I was not prepared to stand by and watch this affront to a civilised society by a dictator who would happily have seen children in deep poverty.

Like i said before, i would have gained financially from the poll tax. I chose not to allow personal greed cloud my judgement on that issue, as it was not a healthy policy to follow for the long-term future of this country.

If it were not for the actions of people like me we would still have the poll tax now.
Sometimes the only action to take is the only one open to you, that of non-compliance. When you are faced with a government that is not interested in the welfare of the majority or the opinions of the majority then you have to ask the question what are the government for? They are there to manage the country on our behalf, we are not here to do there bidding, why do people not understand that?

I have always tried to contribute to the community i live in, i have raised thousands of pounds for the Multiple Schlorosis Society by doing sponsored events to help support people who are massively neglected by the state. I have a strong social conscience and a strong sense of justice.

I am one of the few people on this board that is not afraid to be honest with how I feel about subjects that are very varied, from trying to break down technical myths to social comments. I have nothing to gain from this approach except the hope that it contributes to other peoples understanding of a subject. I hope my contributions help to educate other people or at least get them thinking.

I am obviously not always right, I don’t have all the answers and I am always open to being educated by others who know better than me, in other words I have an open mind.

Sometimes you have to make choices in life that go against the normal “correct” procedures, even if that makes you uncomfortable and puts you at risk. There are thousands of examples of people saying “I don’t like it but it’s the law so it must be right”, the most extreme being the German government under Hitler or apartheid in South Africa.

As for whether I should be a moderator. I did not ask to be a moderator, I was asked to do it. What do I gain from being a moderator? Absolutely nothing. What is my role as a moderator? Simply to try and ensure that no one causes slander or offence, it is not to censor or force my views on others.

I respect your views and understand them, try and appreciate why I took the action I did and think about the consequences if millions like me had not acted in the way we did.

 

Dave T-S,

You're going over the top here (with regards to johnfelstead)

I wasn't aware that breaking the law disqualifies someone from being a moderator on here. And even if it did, have you ever heard of the Rehabilition of Offenders Act?

I'll qualify that last comment be saying that I have no idea what johnfelstead did and/or whether he was arrested and/or convicted of any offence. He felt it was necessary to do what he did and he was my full support.

Remember, we are supposed to live in a free society. This free society was possible beacause of the actions of many people who joined together to defeat a common enemy. In the case of the Poll Tax, it was the Tory Government. In the case of the last 2 world war's, it was Germany. Go figure.

Craig.

 

John

You little ole rebel you..

Sheesh People.. Lighten Up People.. This is worse than Castaways

We are here to discuss Scoobies, the whole Scoobies and nothing but the Scoobies..

Not why 42 is the answer...

Richard

But Hell what would I know I'm just a Welsh / Aussie / Septic..

 

Nothing is worse than Castaways....

 

richard, i hope you meant sceptic.

There have been some important issues raised this week and i think scoobynet is as good a place as any to discuss them.

We have a very varied list of contributors and readers and i am gratefull for there input.

This board shouldn't be purely about scoobies and nothing but scoobies, it would become very dull and repetative if that were the case.

(in joke people)

 

John,
I'll bet you exceed 70mph on motorways too. Tut tut.

Neil.

 

Johnfelstead (last evening's comment)
Well put.

Adamson
Please don't compare two wars with Germany with defeating governments - beating the Kaiser and Adolf was much easier!!

Both
As you say - we may not have the same opinions but at least we live in a society where by and large we can still express them.

 

Dave T-S,

What an offensive remark. Please don't trivialise such things. Making jokes about an event that killed millions of people is not funny.

Craig.

 

The BBC has been keen on using emotive language such as Blocakde, Barricade etc

Also the Govt have played the health service card very often. However my girlfriend is a nurse at a hospital and it is business at usual. They have had NO crisis notifications etc even though petrol is scarce round our way.