JTaylor

Thanks. Now how does this apply to Suicide Bombers who have reasoned their actions so thoroughly that they're prepared to martyr themselves for their cause?

JTaylor

Nope. Human beings are the only animals capable of contemplating their own demise. Some human beings (several billion) find comfort in the notion of an after life. To quote Marx "Religion is the opiate of the people".

P.S. Good afternoon

jonc

Have they really? No chance that they may have been "brainwashed"? (jumping on the media bandwagon, but there is that chance) who's relatives who know them best are so shocked that would even such action? who are not prepared to be reasoned with other than to destroy the lives of others. Is this form of action now considered reasonable action?

Soulgirl

Well, I can't comprehend that - we all die, there is no choice. I am quite happy to pop my clogs. Death has never been worrysome to me providing I'm not tortured to death

JTaylor

I take your point. I guess I didn't make mine as clear.

The individuals you talk of are, for me, simply vessels for delivering the payload. Desperately sad I agree. As sad as say all those soldiers (read cannon fodder) that lost their lives in WW1.

Have you seen the fourth series of Blackadder? For those who haven't, it was set in the trenches of WW1. Naturally, Blackadder spends most of his time trying to get out of the trenches before General Melchett gives him the order to 'climb out of the trenches and walk very slowly towards the enemy' which means certain death.

Mindless, futile and without reason? Tell that to the families of those who gave their lives to "conquer the Hun". Were they brainwashed? Well I would suggest that they were certainly encouraged to do this for King and Country. Is this any different from martyring yourself for Allah?

Hamas reward handsomely the families of those who give their lives in the intifada.

WW2

Dresden - 50 000 German civilians killed. Considered collateral damage and "reasonable". Of the 805 RAF aircraft which attacked, 9 were lost.

Vietnam

58,000 Americans "died for the cause". 3 million Vietnamese lives lost - the majority of whom were considered "collateral damage".

Iraq

1000 American lives lost "defending democracy" and upwards of 6,000 or 12,000 Iraqis (depending upon who's counting).

"Get to the point" I hear you cry.

The Muslims that commit these atrocities (I mean the entire defense structure, not specifically the SBs) believe that their way of life, their land, their culture, oil and future is being threatened by American Imperialism. We are allied with America and currently help occupy Muslim countries. These Muslims want to fight back. However, they do not have aicraft carriers, tanks, stealth bombers, spy satellites etc. etc. and so they must look at unconventional means to hit us (Allies, Israel et al) where it hurts.

One very effective way is via suicide bombers (deliverers of payload, conventional weapons unavailable). No matter how stomach churning, unpallatable and difficult to handle this may be, it is NOT without reason.

(I have stated previously and will state again, that as a White, Protestant, Englishman, I would have no hesitation in defending my country if called upon to do so - this would not mean that I would be blind to the motives of the enemy - whomsoever they may be).

JTaylor

Cool, that's why you're not religious. Billions are though.

moses

when death comes always ask for a quick death, its a blessing, i or u wouldnt wanna suffer a slow death like cancer, paralysing death etc, a cardiac arrest is good and quick

Soulgirl

I might have to start another thread about religion in general 'cos personally I just don't get it... believing in something that just isn't there - they make it up as they go along

JTaylor

Do it. Love theology.

Chris5-0

I'm sorry???

I've read a lot this man posts. I'm not going to get into a discussion with you mate at all, i think a lot of what you post is racist in the extreme and shows a very dangerous mind. I've been hoping you o this to shock and don't really think this way but recent events and posts show a very worrying almost psychophrenic nature to you, one minute lucid and intelligent, the next a screaming racist shouting to kill. Really think the mods need to take a good look at this mans posts and decide if we want to bring incitement to racial hatred onto this board? An afterthough addition to a post from him along the lines of 'i didn't mean all whites were bigots....' etc time and time again is not an excuse.

AsifScoob

Its taken me ages to catch up with this thread, but it has hardly improved.

As I said in an earlier post we need to wait and see what facts actually come out.

I also stated I was of the opinion that the Police must do what they think is right and I do support them for that, as I wouldn't want to do that job, but I have good mates that do.

The fact is the man was innocent, completely and I haven't seen a lot of constuctive discussion around that. Where are the "Kill, kill, kill!" brigade today?

For me, I would like to see more details on the specific circumstances of the chase etc, not a lot on News 24. Then we can decide. Its got to be clear that the inteligence needs to be better, or why did it fail?

Asif

AsifScoob

I see, fair enough and I might even agree with that explanation of it.

Would like to hear from the man himself though.

Asif

AsifScoob

Thanks for the info.

29% is hardly over and above though is it? Even people in Borneo know that!

I have to say, I absolutely hate any form of Positive Discrimination as it demeans people like me and our achievements. I actually have no personal experience of it, nor have I ever benefitted from it in any way, so I dont really know the REAL impact it has on peoples lives.

Another point for you. If there are two people going for the same job, one white and one non white and the non white person gets it solely for the colour of their skin, that is wrong. Anyones skin colour should have no bearing whatsoever in these matters.

However, a question. Can you, or anyone else, tell me that perfectly qualified white recruits have been rejected from the Police to make way for non white recruits? Surely if you qualify - you qualify?

Haven't police numbers grown overall? Is this not just an attempt to make up a lack of non white Police, that has been suffered for many years?

The point I am trying to make is that as long as a white person has not been rejected for the colour of their skin, then surely there is no PD, racism etc? All that has happened is an attempt to get MORE officers from ethnic communities, to help increase overall numbers.

Just my take on it, I may be wrong.

Asif

AsifScoob

Would't they be justified, even one little bit?

I am sure the sizeable Brazilian/Portugeese community in Stockwell would have something to say.

Asif

Soulgirl

The news reports that he has been resident in the UK for 3 years and speaks very good English. So he would have understood the instructions from the Police. Brazilian? Now what comes from Brazil?? Perhaps he was embroiled in some other unlawful skulduggery and panic set in? Just thinking out loud

JTaylor

Personally, I love a Brazilian.

Soulgirl

gsm1

We don't know if the police gave him any instructions, if they just pulled their guns or they just charged at him.

gsm1

The London Brazilian community have been out today protesting in front of Scotland Yard.

Hol

iTrader: (1)

The answer to all the worlds problems is to make me the Grand Whizzer of the universe.

Then you can all shut up, do exactly what I say, and go biuld some big space ships so we can go off and kill some Aliens on a Different planet. Preferable green ones with eight eyes and six legs.

Just like all Dictators and empires that have come and gone, whether they be Cristian, Muslim or Sith.

Dribble dribble blah blah!

Jza

FFS!!!

IF they had let him carry on... run on to the train and BLEW THE **** OUT OF 50 PEOPLE.. what would you say then.... ?

Poor Police cannot win in this situation.... its a life and death call in matter of milliseconds... sorry - but after 2 sets of bombings - why the **** would you run from armed police??

Jza

TelBoy

Somebody else sees it for what it is.

Go on moses, insult me again. Or tell me why i'm "not worth it", we haven't done that one for a long time. I see right through you and you hate it. The more you say, the more apparent it becomes.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Amen brother

The bloke said I was blasphemous - unforgivably hypocritical

gsm1

Try reading through the thread and gathering a little more info first.

Hol

iTrader: (1)

No-one liked my Grand Whizzer idea then???

moses

it shows u what kind of a weakminded weasel u are, u need others help against me, how sad tel, i always knew u were a weasel anyone and u got exposed again

lol maybe u didnt notice 98% are anti moses here

and does it bother me, no i luv it

and maybe stand on your own 2 feet and not hang onto someone elses b-o-l-l-o-c-ks to respond to me



u just cant help it can u, to keep on baiting me and try to get me to bite

silly rat

TelBoy

No, ALL i want is for you to be honest.

With yourself first and foremost. Do you have moments where you have to convice *yourself* you're not racist, and that your views are perfectly justifiable? I'll put a decent amount of money that you do go through that process on a fairly regular basis, expecially when you start spouting off on here. Do you actually realise you've incited racial war, and see a clear distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims in that event, British or otherwise. Do you actually realise you posted that??

Try making one fekkin reply to me in your life without weasel or rat or some such bollocks - you might actually look less of a fool than you do when you use that sort of language.

moses

i dont reply properly to weasels and rats and twisters
and a liar and def a weasel 100 times fold , what u are saying above is a show and all bull****, in your game to twist my words and make me look a fool when u are the fool , u remind me of the evil viziers of old who poison minds of their comrades, the snidey type who hide behind a veil with their twisty evil minds

it doesnt matter to u what i say or not your mind has been made up already and all this is a game for u, a coward indeed u are

and stop trying to get me to bite and do u really think i give a damn of what people think of me, go get a life telboy or even i will put up money for a blow up doll if u wish

and a racial war u say, dont make me laugh when u guys are already divided and made up your mind about us and other muslims

go back to your sewer

u r the evil man who accused me of probably glowing when the london bombs happened didnt u.

tel i curse u like no other i hope u get the most severe of punishments for your accusation and the evil u plot and lies u tell and the words u twist of mines

u aint good enuff to be a human

Turbohot

Amen!

Yes,the system sucks!

vava voom

iTrader: (6)

I for one thing telboy is a ****!! haha