Diablo

Jees, is this still going?

He was an illegal in so far as his visa had expired.

He jumped the ticket barrier.

His death was tragic, but not without an element of self blame given the events of the last two weeks.

He may not have been involved in the terrorist acts, but he was neither an "innocent" bystander nor was he without blame.

He was guilty of committing at least two "crimes" if not more.

I'll grant you the punishment did not match the crime on this occasion, but, you know, sometimes **** just happens.....

Particularly when there are suicide bombers around.

Reality

He was Shot 8 Times - They really really wanted to be sure !

Scooby-doo97

iTrader: (1)

Indeed, just heard it on the news

Petem95

Was watching his cousin on TV this morning - what a tos$er, could see the dollar signs in his eyes as he came out with some crap about the Police.

Funny how when someone gets killed they are always portrayed as some sort of saint.

This sort of event must happen all the time in the US, its just one of the pitfalls of having armed Police, but its a pitfall we are going to have to put up with now that the UK looks like its going to become a regular target for this sort of attack.

hedgehog

Have the police actually come out and said that it was them who shot this bloke? I don't mean just failed to deny it was them, but actually said "it were us?" I haven't heard much news and so have no idea.

Being a native of Belfast i am aware that NI had a very highly trained unit of the RUC called the SPG (Special Patrol Group) and they were certainly beyond anything that exists in the police at present in terms of anti-terrorist capability. Even they didn't get in on security operations of this type, except to brush up the mess. The last thing you want is PC plod wandering around saying "ello ello, what seems to be the matter then?"

If this chap was shot 8 times then it would certainly look to me that someone much more highly specialised than PC plod did the dirty deed and it is interesting that the media appear to be ignoring this.

Perhaps I am wrong but this looks like a job done by a man who was trained to kill people rather than by someone who is trained, as was the case in Northern Ireland and is almost certainly currently the case with police carrying weapons, to provide a visable security presence but not get too involved in the tricky bits.

Fundamentally the police are there to uphold law and order rather than to go sneaking up on people. Sneaking up on terrorists is a much more tricky job for which you need a man who knows. In NI when terrorists were to be eliminated the SPG were usually deployed to sit in their cars along the road some distance from the event. Once everything was tidied up they were called in to clean up and usually by the time they arrived the man, or men, who knew what they were doing, and who were trained for the job, were getting into a helicopter never to be seen again.

I think the police are getting a pasting here for something that might not have involved them at all.

Soulgirl

Interesting reading on the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4717251.stm

This quote made me laugh... the silly cow

AsifScoob

Takes one to know one

GC8

The Home Office have taken advice from the Isreali government on how to deal with the threat of a live suicide bomber -the Isrealis have extensive experience-. The remark passed earlier about one shot being sufficient is nonsense, death may well follow (although its far from certain apart from on television) but it wont be instant and the victim wouldnt have been completely incapacitated. In this instance the unfortunate man was shot repeatedly in the head to prevent the possibility of his detonating a bomb (of course, there wasant one but thats not the issue in my post). In theory one well-placed shot from the front through the mouth will destroy the part of the brain used to control movement, this should prevent even a spasm causing a held detonator to be activated. In practice it appears that the Policeman in question held his weapon to the victims head and shot repeatedly, until he was sure that the man was incapacitated.

On a seperate note Im highly dubious about a 'shoot to kill' policy as mentioned elsewhere, the reason is simply that you can not order a Police officer to shoot someone. A Police officer holds a 'personal office'; unlike a soldier, who can be ordered to act. My understanding is that this means that a Police officer has to make up his own mind about a situation and act accordingly. He can be trained and advised but ultimately, he must decide what action to take.


Simon

Soulgirl

You agree with her then?

OllyK

Of course, all the suicide bombers do now is switch to a deadman trigger, a strong spring that has to be kept depressed to stop the dentonator being triggered. Shot to head, muscles relax in hand, spring forces out and dentonator goes off.

Jap2Scrap

Thinking about this story, it's a bit of a kick in the b*ll*cks for all those who support ID cards with the statement, "You've nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong."

Tiggs

i think they mean nothing to fear from ID cards. i dont think the idea is that with an ID card nothing will kill you...otherwise people in adventure sports would all get one.

carefull with all that twisting, you might strain something.

Reality

If we'd had ID cards and the guy was here illegally he might have been sent home already - thus saving his life and the tax payer the hundreds of thousands the family will get in compo !

OllyK

Unless you have ID checks on every street corner or need it to purchase goods - ID cards are unlikely to be any more effective than current methods for dealing with illegal immigrants.

Even then, those who are outside the law anyway may well find other ways to get round the system.

Jap2Scrap

I'm not talking about ID cards per sé, more the use of that phrase in particular because it's obviously not as black and white as it would seem.

gsm1

Just a few points -

He was killed with eight bullets not five. Seven to his head and one to his shoulder according to the post mortem.

There was a rumour that his visa had expired - this supposedly came from a security source and Jack Straw later said he didn't know if it was true or not (obviously the government had nothing to do with spreading crap about his visa having expired and I wouldn't want to imply that they did either). In any case to use this as an excuse for his death is just sick.