**

nah. cobblers. we've been merely arguing about one single facet of the problem as it exists here, in the UK - i never said socranie & malik's approach is a panacea but if you want to believe i did then that, my odd wee friend, is up to you. your stated belief that it's all the west's fault is what i take total issue with because it is a fatuous generalisation, up there with "all foxhunters are toffs," coincidentally another NSR gem from one of the morlocks in scoobynet's lower vaults.

we differ on where the fault lies: the geo-politics of terrorism are incredibly complex. i go for shades of grey, you don't. sort of goes hand-in-hand with the absolutism of atheism wouldn't you say?

i'm now going to drop this because it has become truly boring. i suggest you do the same. you may of course have the last word as you will be unable to stop yourself.

 

I heard on radio 2 today "don't tell anyone that I listen to it"

Someone said that if somebody preaches political hatred they should be locked up, no ifs, no buts, locked up. But as he said, all the fecking do gooders would say 'oooh that is against the poor chaps human rights', BOLLOX IS IT, if they want to preach all that fecking crap they should be locked up for life in one of Her Majesty's Pleasure holiday camps that we have


Think about the human rights of the people that died in the bombings !!!


Perhaps if the ******** try again, they might just blow themselves up at home and involve no one else - now that would be very, very funny in the name of alla and all that



This country is fecking itself from the inside out with all these cases of human rights bollox. Would we get away with it in their country? No, like **** would we, we would be told to **** off or be shot but the ******* play the ace card over here

 

[QUOTE=Holy Ghost]**

There has been no generalisation that it's all the west's fault. The only person making generalisations is you. There are complex reasons but to just totally ignore them and instead believe that evil just exists and you need to get to Mordor to destroy a ring to resolve it is complete and utter guff.

IOW - I have no argument left. It's amazing, after the simplistic arguments about how we were going to combat terrorism by invading Iraq and Afghanistan the whole issue has now become very complex. No, there's no relationship between invading Iraq and last week's events, this terrorism business is all very complicated and we can't discuss it right now.

 

thanks tim and exactly thats why i posted the definition of white according to moses and i dont mean the white race mate, my brothers and sisters christians, athiests commies, muslims and others grew up with me in school , played footie together, i dont see them as a colour thats the difference bud i dont see u if u were my friend as a colour only people i see as white r the racist scum white bigots, i hope u understand what i mean lile national front, inciters and haters etc and supremists

and al qaida aint racist, alot of them members r white too mate converts and all and bosnian, their zealots, their first war is against the weak among their own and the evil dictators like in the muslim world and also the occupiers of muslim lands and yes their evil coz they dont make a distinction against the occupying force and innocent civilians in all lands

they believe anyone not doing anything to throw out the invaders and r applying to work for them and their puppet regimes as soldiers or police deserve death

and by killing civilians in iraq the motherfeckers wont kill their own kids the ******** , the civilians will uprise and throw out the occupying force

according to their sick mind, they think it will work, its like spain, bomb spain and force their people to draw back their forces kind of ideology

and by the we always talk about al qaida, most aint al qaida, their inspired by them


and holy ghost if bnp keep up what they r doing and inciting and hurting muslims


their will be a war in the uk and no bull****, they will force innocent and moderate muslims to think going to extremes to protect their own and hurt the ones who hurt them and burn their homes and mosques

and a few handful of them will bring devastation to bnp meets and other area's to punish them, the more the white bigots incite the more recruits for fundamentalists , trust me, it happens

more u oppress a community more their gonna seek other ways to get u back and their will be an all out war and innocents will suffer coz of a minority of sick white bigots and extremists in our community who will take advantage of getting more foot soldiers

u saw what the minority r doing in iraq, thats all it needs to create hell

i hope it never happens but scum posts like here and their mentalities wont help

 

Fair enough, if you want to do a runner, then run off. Although I do think you have changed your tone and, hopefully, over the days to come you may look for answers to questions hitherto unthought of.

If you believe in the 'shades of grey' faults, you must know what they are (assuming you possess a capability to think, albeit limited). Why can't you tell me what they are?

You've continually failed to provide a reason for the root cause of terrorism but have no problem in knocking others' views. A very immature attitude.

Atheism is not about absolutism because atheism doen't claim to know anything more than what is already verifiably known; in which case religion is absolutism because it claims to know everything, unverifiably.

 

No, I do get it……

Those trying to destabilise Iraq are mostly foreign, the Iraqis just want to get on with it’s well documented

Liberating Iraq and Afghanistan has disrupted Terrorist orgnisations – no question

Once again – you can’t appease or negotiate with these people – so which side are you on, the Iraqis (and most people who live in the west) or the terrorists????

 

were on the side of justice not tony blair or bush who make and bushs cronies who make billions from war

were with the just not terrorists or the west but with the iraqis not the puppet iraqi regime but the civilians who want the west out

 

So what is it then?

 

you couldn't resist ... nor perhaps could i.

i haven't changed my tone one jot. you've a simplistic, primary-colour world view & i can't help that. i'm not going to get involved in a root & branch discussion of terrorism because you won't listen. it's wasted breath. i don't want to give you my view on the wider picture or my reasons why terror is more than simply a case of the west reaping what it has sown. it's just not worth it. you subscribe to the "our fault" theory quite clearly - even if gsm1 can't read its screen properly - and that's that.

by the way, atheism is "the belief or theory that God does not exist" - OED. that's absolute. i rest my case

sayonara.

 

i posted it yesterday go have a look at what i class in words as white

rod stewart
becks
sipie
leslie
tim grove
and alot of others here
martin o neil
gordon strachan
john kerry

etc etc etc not white

bush
blair
nick griffin
scumbags here some of them
serb butchers
neocons


etc etc

 

Which is which?

 

man i made it so simple

above category aint white

below r white

thats my definition in characters not words, that was in a different thread

 

Righto, I see your definition now. It'd have been clear enough for me if you'd only have put 'white' after the second 'etc etc' but fair enough, thanks for clarifying.

I don't really agree with your definition but that's my opinion. For example Gordon Strachan is definitely white (tell the wee man to stop trying to raid my fecking team btw - we might have loved him here at Southampton but he's doing my head in keepin on saying he wants this and that player from us now - anyway, I digress) as is Martin O'Neal. In fact O'Neal is whiter than a polar bear who's wandered through a bleach factory! My point is it's very fanciful to suggest people don't have different colour skin unless they're extremists. We should all be able to look past skin colour but we should all be proud to be who we are. I find it slightly insulting that you imply being white is a bad thing.

 

Actually you are with the terrorists or the West – it is that simple


Most of Iraq just want to get on with life, under the protection of a solid government – that’s why the trouble is localised and without mainstream support

I’m not even gonna dignify you comment about billions of dollars, except to say if you have a pension you may well find that you’re making money in some form or other from the defense /oil/construction industries (and do I hope you have planned for the future).

So lets see, you live in the west, enjoying it’s freedoms but cry foul when you see others embracing it, because you think they should live under a murderous totalitarian dictator??? Why is this???

And don’t give me any nonsense about Bush & Blair, just answer the question….

 

This is the paradox a lot of people have. Especially people like Moses who are torn between two cultures. Like it or not, the West is rich in all aspects due to a multitude of things such as long standing democracies, the English language, freedom of expression, lessened religious doctrine and of course historical looting of natural resources from other parts of the World. This richness has bought consumerism, education, health and standard of living that continues to outstrip the third world. This unbalanced nature continues to suck dry further resources, including the people, from the poorer parts of the world.

Moses is British, but sees his 'brothers' loosing out to the West in every aspect and sees them as being belittled, humiliated and ultimately controlled. He hates this as we can plainly see, but what he can't see or accept, is that his current lifestyle, standard of living and quality of life are all directly related to this imbalance and 'unfairness'. He'll come on here preaching how the West are bad etc etc etc.. whilst nipping down to Norris to get his Evo over 500 BHP (or whatever)..

He, and any other person who 'hates' the west whilst living in and enjoying it's luxuries are hypocritical. But he ultimately has a point.. Hence his confusion and inability to integrate fully.

(Hi Moses.. Long time no joust, eh? )

 

If he don't like they way of the west then he can **** off and join them


What these bombers need is their bollox cut and stuffed in their gobs then shot feckingbastidswhankersto$$ers ashalfs

I' feel better for getting that off me chest

 

rod stewart??? rod feckin stewart???


How did he end up in this debate??

 

Because Moses in his infinite wisdom says they are "White" believe it or not

 

ANY country in the world can turn itself into a rich country, it's how the country is run. Corrupt leaders, Oil profits going to a select few, repressive regimes and the confusion created when nation states do not have secular governments (as in Sharia law) all contribute to their misfortune and poverty (as well as pride).

Capitalism, freedom and democracy work - they may not fit with a utopian view by hippies and socialists but no other system ever does work.

 

And around the corner I go

 

He He

 

I disagree that ANY country can turn itself into a rich one.. You could argue that any Government is going to be corrupt to a greater or lesser extent, but there's plenty of country's who are reasonably run and still poor relative to the G8.. Should Italy be in the G8?

Natural resources, location, skill sets, education, funding & resourcing all play a major part.. I agree that any country with all that can still be poor if the Government is wholly corrupt..

I do agree that Capitalism, freedom and democracy do work, and that it's not perfect..

But unlike Moses, I know where I'd rather be..

 

You still haven't answered what the root cause of the terrorist attacks is

Keep throwing your dummy out of the pram with lines like 'i don't want to give you my view on the wider picture or my reasons why terror is more than simply a case of the west reaping what it has sown. it's just not worth it.'

You truely are a 'rabid intellectual dwarf'.

sayonara.

PS - what is more absolute: the belief or theory that God does exist or the belief or theory that God does not exist?

 

By the way, Holy Ghost, I am all ears. Talk away. Saying that I 'won't listen' futher diminishes your stance on this topic because I have repeatedly asked you the same question over and over again and you continue to dodge it.

You should be ashamed of yourself, like any other troll who comes to scoobynet trying to get a bit of attention. Anyway, they do say ignorance is bliss, so enjoy life in your cocooned intellect.

By the way, what do you think are the root causes for the terrorist attacks in the UK?

Sayonara^2

 

So you're a financial adviser now? Maybe you could sort out a Few ISAs for Moses.

And you continue to support dictators while they suck your dick and when they get a bit out of hand they suddenly become 'dangerous' and you want to go and 'free' the people. Why is this??? It's up to the Iraqis what they do with their government, it's their country. As for your argument about foreign fighters doing the suicide bombings, I'd love to see where this is 'well documented'.

Why don't you try answering some questions for a change. You're quick with the simplistic nonsense but don't answer squat.

 

Here is a Sky News report out of London. There are too many points to make up front, so I've inserted comments in caps and brackets as you go:

BOMBER DIED IN TUBE BLAST

It is "highly likely" one of the Tube bombers died in the attacks on the Underground network, police say. [LATER IN THIS PIECE WE'LL LEARN THAT IT'S LIKELY ALL THE BOMBERS ARE DEAD.]

The suspected bombers travelled down from the West Yorkshire and met at Kings Cross station shortly before the attacks were launched on Thursday morning, police said at a press conference.

Their images were captured by CCTV cameras.

Personal documents have been found at all four bomb scenes and although the four attackers are thought to have died [OH THEY'RE ALL CONVENIENTLY DEAD BUT THE BOMBS THEMSELVES WERE ON TIMERS, WHICH WOULD HAVE GIVEN THE KILLERS TIME TO WALK AWAY FROM THE BOMBS---I SEE---IT WASN'T SUICIDE BOMBINGS, IT WAS JUST FOUR COINCIDENTAL SCREW-UPS BY THE TERRORISTS THAT RESULTED IN THEIR DEATHS] police were careful not to say whether Britain had suffered its first suicide bomb strike.

Anti-terror police said they had traced the bombers and six arrest warrants have been issued for addresses in West Yorkshire.

Police said there was forensic evidence that meant it was "very likely" the bomber responsible for the train explosion at Aldgate died there. [WHAT EVIDENCE? WILL WE EVER SEE IT?]

One of the four men had been reported missing by his family on the day of the attacks and his property was found at the bus blast scene. The second man's property was found at the scene of the Aldgate blast and the third man's property at both the Aldgate and Edgware Road blasts. [PROPERTY? PLANTED BY OPS AGENTS? DESKS, CHAIRS, JEWELRY? ENCASED IN STEEL VAULTS?]

One man has just been arrested in west Yorkshire in connection with the attacks. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of Scotland's Yard anti-terrorist branch, said: "The investigation quite early led us to have concerns about the movement and activities of four men, three of whom came from the West Yorkshire area. "We are trying to establish their movements in the run-up to last week's attack and specifically to establish whether they all died in the explosions. [THEY'RE ALL LIKELY DEAD. NO MAYBE NOT. LOOKS LIKE YES. WE CAN'T TELL. BUT WE HAVE THEIR 'PROPERTY' RIGHT THERE AT THE BLAST SCENES. MAYBE IT WAS PLANTED SO THEY COULD ESCAPE. TYPICAL AL QAEDA. PRETEND TO BE A SUICIDE BOMBER AND THEN ESCAPE. FORGET THE OTHER COVER STORY ABOUT THE AL QAEDA MO BEING SUICIDE AND GOING TO PARADISE. THIS IS DIFFERENT. BUT IT'S THE SAME. IT'S AL QAEDA.] We executed six warrants under the Terrorism Act at premises in the West Yorkshire area."

These included the home addresses of three of the four men. A detailed forensic examination will now follow and this is likely to take time to complete." [THE PUBLIC HAS NO RIGHT TO LEARN THE DETAILS OF THAT EXAMINATION. NOT NOW. NOT EVER. WE'LL ONLY RELEASE THE CONCLUSIONS.]

He continued: "We know that all four of these arrived in London by train on the morning. We have identified CCTV footage showing the four men at King's Cross Station shortly before 8.30am on that morning, July 7. [THEY POSED FOR A JOINT PICTURE FOR THE CAMERAS? BUT THEY WERE BRIGHT ENOUGH TO LEAVE 'PROPERTY' AT THE BLAST SCENES AS EVIDENCE OF DEATH, AFTER WHICH, WITH THEIR MUGS ON CAMERA, THEY ESCAPED. SURE, THAT MAKES SENSE.]

"One of them who had set out from West Yorkshire was reported missing by his family to the casualty bureau on July 7. We have been able to establish that he was joined on his journey to London by three other men. We have since found personal documents bearing the names of three of those four men close to the seats of three of the explosions." [IN PRISTINE CONDITION, NO DOUBT, WITH LARGE RED ARROWS POINTING TO THE NAMES, RIGHT THERE AT THE VERY CENTERS OF THE BLAST SCENES. IMMORTAL IDs.] As regards to the man who is missing, some of his property was found on the route 30 bus in Tavistock Square. Property of a second man was found at the scene of the Aldgate bomb and in relation to a third man property with his name was found at the Aldgate and Edgware Road bombs." [BUNDLES OF CLOTHING WITH HIS NAME SEWN ON LABELS? CLOTHING MADE OF ASBESTOS?] We have strong forensic evidence that it is very likely that one of the men from West Yorkshire died at the explosion at Aldgate."

Sky News terror expert Steve Park said the documents may have been deliberately planted to "send police the wrong way". [STEVE PARK HAS JUST RECEIVED A NEW ASSIGNMENT REPORTING ON BIRDS IN ALASKA. ANYWAY, WHO WOULD HAVE DONE THE PLANTING OF EVIDENCE? TERRORISTS? AFTER THEY POSED FOR A JOINT PICTURE IN FRONT OF A TV CAMERA ON THEIR WAY TO LONDON? SAY IT, STEVE. OPS AGENTS OR POLICE MUST HAVE PLANTED THE EVIDENCE.]

The news comes as armed police search a house in Leeds after the Army used a controlled explosion to get in. [I THOUGHT THEY HAD PEOPLE OVER THERE WHO COULD PICK LOCKS. AND IF THEY REMOTELY SUSPECTED EXPLOSIVE MATERIALS MIGHT BE IN THE HOUSE, WAS THE CONTROLLED EXPLOSION DONE TO GAIN ENTRANCE OR TO DESTROY REAL EVIDENCE?]



No one was in the house at the time but armed officers had been used as a precaution. Five other homes in Leeds had earlier been raided by police hunting the terrorists behind last week's attacks.

Neighbours at one of the addresses said a 22-year-old man who lived there with his family had gone missing. Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said the raids were "directly connected" to Thursday's atrocity.

Hours later, police evacuated Luton railway station and car park to recover a vehicle suspected of being linked with the terrorist attacks. The car was blown up in two controlled explosions. [BLOWN UP WHEN? BEFORE OR AFTER EVIDENCE WAS OBTAINED FROM THE CAR. SEEMS LIKE THE AUTHORITIES ARE BUSY BLOWING UP KEY EVIDENCE. WAIT A FEW MINUTES. THEY'LL BLOW UP AREAS OF THE SUBWAY SYSTEM WHERE THE BLASTS WENT OFF.]

end Sky News article

This has to be one of the most transparent and amateur efforts at stitching together cover stories I've ever run across. Right up there with 9/11 and the OKC bombing.

 

Michael Moore must be drooling like a hungry dog with a can of Pedigree Chum in front of his face.

 

I dont see how kicking people out of the country they were born in and have contributed to as much as any true 'white-british' person just because of the colour of their skin or because of their faiths. Thats a very **** viewpoint and IMO makes me very sick to hear. Britain is multi-cultural and I personally love it that way.

And BTW where does a 'British-White' 'Muslim' stand on your **** segregation strategy??

Bob

 

GSM,

I would preder to modify what you said to" You are either on the side of the terrorists or or the people who have no wish to go around murdering the innocent" Since most of none Western civilisations also decry terrorism I feel that that is fairer and more accurate. Nothing PC intended about that either.

CoobyS, You would not recognise a troll if he hit you on the head! Got a mirror at home?

Les

 

Leslie, I didn't say it, I was laughing at it.
All these silly soundbites like 'You're either with us...or blah blah' are simply to appeal to the herd mentality and to gag anyone that chooses to question their leaders.