Floyd’s ‘economy’ Stage III
04 June 2012, 01:10 PM
#661
Come and have a go Floyd, it's good fun and as cheap as you want to make it.
Return to sump catch can is the way forward, have that on my JDM STi and used to have it on my last RA, it doesn't use a drop of oil.
Return to sump catch can is the way forward, have that on my JDM STi and used to have it on my last RA, it doesn't use a drop of oil.
08 June 2012, 08:26 AM
#662
I'm considering both John 
Last Bank Holiday Monday, I went to try Blyton Park race track. Some very exotic cars there including some Clio Cup cars - boy, they were quick!
This was a chance to try out my new chassis settings on a short track (1.55 miles), with challenging corners and pretty much no resting points on the lap. This is a handling track! The roll is noticeably reduced and the grip increased. Tyre squeal is low and the car is still well balanced. I did fear that the car would become snappy on the limit but no such behaviour was detected. I don't think I have to worry about understeer although there is some if I push too early. The car tends to wash all 4 wheels wide generally when over the limit. The tyre grip is such that it seems to grip and then hop rather than slide in some corners. I still can't get as fast as an E36 M3 on slicks though, when using R888's - this M3 is on -4deg camber and lifts a front inside wheel most corners and has amazing turn in. On exiting the bends I've noticed the inside rear on my car starts to spin up.
The brake discs were new but no time to get new pads so some bedding in was done in a hurry. Luckily this wasn't an issue and the brakes worked very well.
My laps times came down to 1:12 but no truely clear laps to see if I could go faster. I couldn't find anything on the net to compare with.
So, in summary, chassis mods have worked but I want MORE! Adjustable rear arms for more rear camber so I can then wind more camber on the front. Also, I want to reduce the wasted power from the spinning rear wheel - LSD on rear?
Last Bank Holiday Monday, I went to try Blyton Park race track. Some very exotic cars there including some Clio Cup cars - boy, they were quick!
This was a chance to try out my new chassis settings on a short track (1.55 miles), with challenging corners and pretty much no resting points on the lap. This is a handling track! The roll is noticeably reduced and the grip increased. Tyre squeal is low and the car is still well balanced. I did fear that the car would become snappy on the limit but no such behaviour was detected. I don't think I have to worry about understeer although there is some if I push too early. The car tends to wash all 4 wheels wide generally when over the limit. The tyre grip is such that it seems to grip and then hop rather than slide in some corners. I still can't get as fast as an E36 M3 on slicks though, when using R888's - this M3 is on -4deg camber and lifts a front inside wheel most corners and has amazing turn in. On exiting the bends I've noticed the inside rear on my car starts to spin up.
The brake discs were new but no time to get new pads so some bedding in was done in a hurry. Luckily this wasn't an issue and the brakes worked very well.
My laps times came down to 1:12 but no truely clear laps to see if I could go faster. I couldn't find anything on the net to compare with.
So, in summary, chassis mods have worked but I want MORE! Adjustable rear arms for more rear camber so I can then wind more camber on the front. Also, I want to reduce the wasted power from the spinning rear wheel - LSD on rear?
11 June 2012, 07:40 PM
#663
Video of Blyton here: http://gallery.me.com/nickoak#100025
Not quite a full session as a bit was cut out due to a Saxo upsetting the flow. Tyres had got hot and squirmy at the end and I eventually ran wide. Camera car was the E36 M3, excellently track prepared and well driven and riding on full slicks.
As you can see from the video, roll is still present so some more stiffening and lowering will be tried. The M3 catches me in the corners, which makes me look slow. This isn't really the case, he's just bonkers on the brakes and has far better turn in and grip. Git! I can leave him on the straights but often get held up and he can eat me back up.
Interesting comparing my video with Steven's on 22B from sprints there. He sees 130mph on the straights and I probably touch 110mph (need to check logs) but I think I'm quicker through the bends. He also brakes far earlier than me and I think I can brake later!
Not quite a full session as a bit was cut out due to a Saxo upsetting the flow. Tyres had got hot and squirmy at the end and I eventually ran wide. Camera car was the E36 M3, excellently track prepared and well driven and riding on full slicks.
As you can see from the video, roll is still present so some more stiffening and lowering will be tried. The M3 catches me in the corners, which makes me look slow. This isn't really the case, he's just bonkers on the brakes and has far better turn in and grip. Git! I can leave him on the straights but often get held up and he can eat me back up.
Interesting comparing my video with Steven's on 22B from sprints there. He sees 130mph on the straights and I probably touch 110mph (need to check logs) but I think I'm quicker through the bends. He also brakes far earlier than me and I think I can brake later!
Last edited by Floyd; 20 June 2012 at 07:19 PM.
18 June 2012, 09:16 PM
#664
MOT passed today, no advisories. Brakes need a service though; a wear plate has fallen out of one AP caliper and a rear caliper is starting to weep from a piston seal - are these simple to service? Also discovered a weep of oil from a rocker cove and the gearbox. Both will be attended to when I swap the engine.
Still getting 300 miles to a tank on cruise.
I've started to look for rear adjustable lateral links.
Still getting 300 miles to a tank on cruise.
I've started to look for rear adjustable lateral links.
19 June 2012, 09:40 PM
#666
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Floyd, with your track driving experience i think you would be more competitive than you think, from what i remember your spec is fairly similar to mine so its definatley doable.
I have found the MLR Sprint races so far to be nowhere near as heard on the car as i thought they would be especially as you are only ever out for one flying lap and then the car can cool down for 25 mins whilst the rest of the field goes through.
I have found the MLR Sprint races so far to be nowhere near as heard on the car as i thought they would be especially as you are only ever out for one flying lap and then the car can cool down for 25 mins whilst the rest of the field goes through.
20 June 2012, 01:25 PM
#668
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Video of Blyton here: http://gallery.me.com/nickoak#100025
Not quite a full session as a bit was cut out due to a Saxo upsetting the flow. Tyres had got hot and squirmy at the end and I eventually ran wide. Camera car was the E36 M3, excellently track prepared and well driven.
As you can see from the video, roll is still present so some more stiffening and lowering will be tried. The M3 catches me in the corners, which makes me look slow. This isn't really the case, he's just bonkers on the brakes and has far better turn in and grip. Git! I can leave him on the straights but often get held up and he can eat me back up.
Interesting comparing my video with Steven's on 22B from sprints there. He sees 130mph on the straights and I probably touch 110mph (need to check logs) but I think I'm quicker through the bends. He also brakes far earlier than me and I think I can brake later!
Not quite a full session as a bit was cut out due to a Saxo upsetting the flow. Tyres had got hot and squirmy at the end and I eventually ran wide. Camera car was the E36 M3, excellently track prepared and well driven.
As you can see from the video, roll is still present so some more stiffening and lowering will be tried. The M3 catches me in the corners, which makes me look slow. This isn't really the case, he's just bonkers on the brakes and has far better turn in and grip. Git! I can leave him on the straights but often get held up and he can eat me back up.
Interesting comparing my video with Steven's on 22B from sprints there. He sees 130mph on the straights and I probably touch 110mph (need to check logs) but I think I'm quicker through the bends. He also brakes far earlier than me and I think I can brake later!
20 June 2012, 08:05 PM
#670
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Just got myself the harrys lap timer software, but not had a chance to use it yet, how did you mount it in the car Floyd?
With regards to tyre temps i have not got any further than a quick feel with my hand across the tyre to make sure that its reasonably the same temp across the whole surface.
For instance at Oulton Park rally circuit the road surface was so slippy that the hand test revealed the tyres to be stone cold after a lap. So the next time i did a 4 wheel burn out before hand and took two seconds off my lap time!
With regards to tyre temps i have not got any further than a quick feel with my hand across the tyre to make sure that its reasonably the same temp across the whole surface.
For instance at Oulton Park rally circuit the road surface was so slippy that the hand test revealed the tyres to be stone cold after a lap. So the next time i did a 4 wheel burn out before hand and took two seconds off my lap time!
20 June 2012, 10:07 PM
#672
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Internal sucker mounts are not allowed under the MLR sprint regs so i think i'm going to have to get a bit more creative with my iphone mount. I have been using GG compound R888's and they seem to grip pretty well from cold, i can't see any other way of maintaing tyre heat other than using the softest tyres possible that are allowed under the regs.
21 June 2012, 09:57 PM
#675
Forget T1R's. R88's have been a great all round tyre - super grip and long lasting, with stability for lots of laps before getting squirmy. MPCS are great too but tend to peak on grip and then become unstable in a big way. Grip is pretty good though.
21 June 2012, 10:33 PM
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I think i managed to overheat My 888's at Blyton as the the rubber is graining really badly on them now although not down to the treadwear markers yet. But as i purchased them in 2004 i don't think they have had a bad innings!
I'm tempted by a set of CR311's if i manage to swing work to do the MLR/22B sprint Castle Combe.
I'm tempted by a set of CR311's if i manage to swing work to do the MLR/22B sprint Castle Combe.
22 June 2012, 08:09 AM
#677
The key to longevity, as with all tyres, is to get the wear, even. A laser pyrometer to check temps across the tread after a few laps to see if you need to adjust camber and toe. Adjusting pressures is the easiest fix but it also should be the last tweak on the chassis set up. Optimising the grip from tyres pays huge dividends. Not trying to tell you how to suck eggs here but this is what I've learnt.
22 June 2012, 03:28 PM
#678
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I ran R888,s and although grippy they get real warm and grippy but once past their tempt hey start to marble. T1r's were better. In the wet but need another set quick for next track day I've Dunlop slicks if it's warm for the 17" and need something for the 18" OZ Supers
09 July 2012, 01:26 PM
#680
Small update. While I gather parts for the next significant upgrade, I try to pick on small things to improve. Any bracket or part that I can get to easily, is removed and either lightened or fabricated out of aluminium.
The first one was the Clutch reservoir which the OE bracket looks like this:
Remade in ali with nylon fasterners (it doesn't need to be very rigid here as there's not much to carry):
The next was the nearside TMIC bracket.
The original was a mixture of OE steel and some ali angle. I was never very happy with this and always intended to complete later. I finally decided on some 14mm ali tube:
These new brackets weigh next to nothing - so I call 'em 'no-weight brackets'. lol
I'll keep my eye on them to see if they crack/break but they should be OK.
The first one was the Clutch reservoir which the OE bracket looks like this:
Remade in ali with nylon fasterners (it doesn't need to be very rigid here as there's not much to carry):
The next was the nearside TMIC bracket.
The original was a mixture of OE steel and some ali angle. I was never very happy with this and always intended to complete later. I finally decided on some 14mm ali tube:
These new brackets weigh next to nothing - so I call 'em 'no-weight brackets'. lol
I'll keep my eye on them to see if they crack/break but they should be OK.
Last edited by Floyd; 09 July 2012 at 01:30 PM.
09 July 2012, 02:07 PM
#681
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Just got myself the harrys lap timer software, but not had a chance to use it yet, how did you mount it in the car Floyd?
With regards to tyre temps i have not got any further than a quick feel with my hand across the tyre to make sure that its reasonably the same temp across the whole surface.
For instance at Oulton Park rally circuit the road surface was so slippy that the hand test revealed the tyres to be stone cold after a lap. So the next time i did a 4 wheel burn out before hand and took two seconds off my lap time!
With regards to tyre temps i have not got any further than a quick feel with my hand across the tyre to make sure that its reasonably the same temp across the whole surface.
For instance at Oulton Park rally circuit the road surface was so slippy that the hand test revealed the tyres to be stone cold after a lap. So the next time i did a 4 wheel burn out before hand and took two seconds off my lap time!
17 September 2012, 06:52 PM
#686
A bit more progress has been made. The original right hand TMIC bracket wasn’t stiff enough so I’ve swapped it for a beefier version. Not because the other one broke; it just seemed to flimsy for my next Ring trip. I also made a LH bracket, which consisted of two aluminium tubes bent around the Turbo heat shield. This was really hard to get right and although much lighter than the original bracket, it was probably not worth the effort in my time. Hey ho!
17 September 2012, 06:54 PM
#687
The next mod had been kicking around for a while and necessary to extend the life of brake pads and more importantly, the wheel bearings. I have big vented discs and a small attempt at a cooling duct (see previous detail earlier in this thread) but it’s just not enough to cool the heat generated by extreme track work. I investigated the best way to do this and some internet searching threw up these options:
Method 1 cover:
Method 2 cover:
The deflector plate is simple and has been used as an OE option on Porsches – this can’t be bad then. Trouble is that I’m not paying that price, there’s no evidence it works on a Subaru and it would be hit and miss as to how far you have to extend the plate below the car and into the airflow.
If I made my own plate then there would be too much testing involved so I parked this idea.
Method 1 cover:
Method 2 cover:
The deflector plate is simple and has been used as an OE option on Porsches – this can’t be bad then. Trouble is that I’m not paying that price, there’s no evidence it works on a Subaru and it would be hit and miss as to how far you have to extend the plate below the car and into the airflow.
If I made my own plate then there would be too much testing involved so I parked this idea.
17 September 2012, 06:56 PM
#688
The other method is to duct the air from the front of the car to the back of the disc, which I’ve done already, but in a very inefficient way.
The problem is finding the best route and attachment method as there’s not much room on full lock especially with race rubber (road rubber in picture):
I actually favour method 2 above as it concentrates the air to the disc ‘eye’ and protects the ball joints. I decided to have some sort of connector collars attached to a backing plate that would help the air into the ‘eye of the discs and around the bearing area. This plate would also protect the rubber gaiters on the ball joints from the heat of the disc – the original backing plates do this but don’t fit with the AP discs.
This is my first attempt, and while a bit ‘Frankenstein’ these are only designed for an initial trial. A proper option will be made once proved. I have decided to use the ‘wedges’ to scoop high pressure air from the front of the car as well as the splitter scoops for secondary cooling.
The problem is finding the best route and attachment method as there’s not much room on full lock especially with race rubber (road rubber in picture):
I actually favour method 2 above as it concentrates the air to the disc ‘eye’ and protects the ball joints. I decided to have some sort of connector collars attached to a backing plate that would help the air into the ‘eye of the discs and around the bearing area. This plate would also protect the rubber gaiters on the ball joints from the heat of the disc – the original backing plates do this but don’t fit with the AP discs.
This is my first attempt, and while a bit ‘Frankenstein’ these are only designed for an initial trial. A proper option will be made once proved. I have decided to use the ‘wedges’ to scoop high pressure air from the front of the car as well as the splitter scoops for secondary cooling.
17 September 2012, 06:58 PM
#689
I can’t go too big on the ducts because of the available space next to the hubs and also the space next to the wheel on full lock. So two tubes are required.
The big duct tube will go low and the smaller tube will go higher near the ABS sensor. Holes were made through the wheel arch liner and the undertray for each tube. The wedge was cut and opened up as it’s quite restrictive, then the big duct was attached to the back of it. Lots of playing around was done to get the length right and trials to make sure it didn’t foul anything.
I need to make a jubilee type attachment for quick release on the small tube because it goes through the undertray and can’t be release otherwise!
When the car is on the ground the ducts are raised and bend into the cavity near the A/R bush. Time will tell if I have this right...!
The big duct tube will go low and the smaller tube will go higher near the ABS sensor. Holes were made through the wheel arch liner and the undertray for each tube. The wedge was cut and opened up as it’s quite restrictive, then the big duct was attached to the back of it. Lots of playing around was done to get the length right and trials to make sure it didn’t foul anything.
I need to make a jubilee type attachment for quick release on the small tube because it goes through the undertray and can’t be release otherwise!
When the car is on the ground the ducts are raised and bend into the cavity near the A/R bush. Time will tell if I have this right...!
Last edited by Floyd; 17 September 2012 at 07:03 PM.
17 September 2012, 07:16 PM
#690
While the car was dismantled, I replaced the brake pads with fresh EBC yellows. Sadly the once cheap 'yellows' for my caliper have just about doubled in price, even with hefty discounts available. But, there is another EBC pad that fits my caliper at half the price! This comes at a cost though as I have to modify the inside radius to clear my bigger bell on the brake disc. 10 mins with an angle grinder solves that... So, I've gone from DP4031R to DP4002R. The new pad is also slightly thicker, which is tricky when fitting.