Americans and the IRA
17 March 2005, 06:11 PM
#31
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:-)
thursday trivia: if JFK hadn't injured his back in his last of innumerable white house presidential poolside ****-a-thons, he wouldn't have had to wear a rigid armpit-to-hip back brace. it kept him stiffly upright and visible in the limo for the fatal head shot.
i'm sure there's a moral there somewhere but i know not what.
thursday trivia: if JFK hadn't injured his back in his last of innumerable white house presidential poolside ****-a-thons, he wouldn't have had to wear a rigid armpit-to-hip back brace. it kept him stiffly upright and visible in the limo for the fatal head shot.
i'm sure there's a moral there somewhere but i know not what.
17 March 2005, 06:19 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Jap2Scrap
It's the romanticism of the Irish. Everyone seems to think they're great but really they're just the same as everyone else. For evidence see how many English people go out celebrating St Patrick's day tonight and stay in watching Eastenders as April 23rd slips by.
Only kidding - you're right though - I'll be celebrating St Georges day fo shizzle.
As for the yanks love for republican terrorism - it is blind loyalty to decendants they never met - or more likely just because generally americans are a little bit s l o w... Even their leader is a simpleton... There's only 2 clever americans - Hawking and Gates
17 March 2005, 06:24 PM
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17 March 2005, 06:34 PM
#34
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I was just listening to a report a few moments ago and according to this journalist in NY hardly any Irish Americans know about the McCartney case or the visit by his sisters and support for the IRA is still very strong there.
17 March 2005, 09:02 PM
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After 9/11 it would clearly be hard for the US administration to be anything but publicly anti-IRA.
But these recent high profile criticisms at such an opportune time? They're almost certainly the result of the British Government calling in some political favours with the US in order to put immense pressure on the IRA, without our own government leaving themselves open to criticism of being too harsh with Sinn Fein and trying to destroy what's left of the peace process.
Gary.
But these recent high profile criticisms at such an opportune time? They're almost certainly the result of the British Government calling in some political favours with the US in order to put immense pressure on the IRA, without our own government leaving themselves open to criticism of being too harsh with Sinn Fein and trying to destroy what's left of the peace process.
Gary.
17 March 2005, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by David Lock
I just can't believe how naive the Americans are. For years many of them have thought of the IRA as oppressed freedom fighters with Gerry Adams as the saviour/hero of the day. Now they have just woken up to the fact that actually the IRA go around killing people and are actually quite a nasty bunch! And Gerry Adams may not be all he is cracked up to be. So the likes of Bush, Edward Kennedy, Hilary Clinton have just realised what has been blindingly obvious for years. Can they really be that naive? Worrying really. These are the people running the world.
Typical ignorant english perspective (an I mean ignorant in the sense that you don't even know 10% of the facts)
David - Tell me this - Why does the IRA exist? - Did the british army never kill anyone? Google Peter McBride for your answer. Given that a number of members of the British Army have killed innocents, should it follow, by your reasoning the the british army are actually quite a nasty bunch?
What we really need to make progess in Northern Ireland are people who can see and understand both points of view. In my experience, this immediately eliminates 99% of the population of England (and about 95 % of the population of NI unfortunately)
17 March 2005, 10:29 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Dracoro
And 95% of the population of Eire too I assume?
more than likely, but they mostly tend to ignore us having decided years ago that there is no future in paying billions to keep the peace. It didn't take them long to get rid of articles 2 and 3 of their constitution
18 March 2005, 06:02 AM
#39
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Don't be so hasty to equate simplicity (Bush) or ignorance (Americans in general) with stupidity.
Americans are no more trusting of their politicians than you lot are of yours and England has its fair share of ignorance.
Living in such a large country, Americans tend not to think so much about the rest of the World as someone who lives on a relatively small island and historically, the scant international news coverage here hasn't helped that any.
If there's one good thing that came out of September 11th it's that the American media is more likely to cover events abroad (albeit still biased towards American interests) and your average American is now more aware of events beyond their continent.
As for Dubya, he may not have the brains of an Einstein or the spin'n'polish of Blair or Clinton but he's smart enough to surround himself with knowledgeable people and listen to them, and he's not afraid to stand up and say what he thinks.
By the way... the Clintons and Kennedys are Democrats (left of center), while Bush is a Republican (right of center). Lumping them together makes about as much sense as lumping (old) Labour and the Tories together.
Americans are no more trusting of their politicians than you lot are of yours and England has its fair share of ignorance.
Living in such a large country, Americans tend not to think so much about the rest of the World as someone who lives on a relatively small island and historically, the scant international news coverage here hasn't helped that any.
If there's one good thing that came out of September 11th it's that the American media is more likely to cover events abroad (albeit still biased towards American interests) and your average American is now more aware of events beyond their continent.
As for Dubya, he may not have the brains of an Einstein or the spin'n'polish of Blair or Clinton but he's smart enough to surround himself with knowledgeable people and listen to them, and he's not afraid to stand up and say what he thinks.
By the way... the Clintons and Kennedys are Democrats (left of center), while Bush is a Republican (right of center). Lumping them together makes about as much sense as lumping (old) Labour and the Tories together.
18 March 2005, 10:04 AM
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I agree FB.
I spent 9 years out of my 13 in the Army in Ulster as a specialist. I am also the son of a Northern Irish Catholic.
I have read this thread and as usual most of it is ill informed ****e, sorry.
I would comment that what annoys me is that in the bars of Boston and NY people who are 3rd and 4th generation Irish descent collect for 'the bhoys' or 'the cause'. I nearly got filled in, in Las Vegas last September in the bar Nine Fine Irishmen in my hotel New York, New York. I commented to three of these guys who were banging on about 'the cause' WTF did they know as they:
a) Had never been to Ireland, let alone NI. They were from fecking Altanta !!
b) Were at best 4th Generation.
c) Watching Patriot Games was not a mandate for political activism.
When I pointed out what I did in the Army he called me a murderer !!!!!.
And please dont drag the fecking Kennedy's into this. They succeeded 'despite' being Irish Catholics. Subsequent acts by a lesser memeber of the family is just bandwagon jumping cos he couldn't be like his big brothers.
Also please dont parallel 9/11 with a freedom struggle that has gone on for centuries. Acts of random terrorism no matter what there scale against the U.S. are totally different from Northern Ireland, end of.
The RA will never go a away. Same as the UDA or the UVF. It is not about 'the struggle' any more, it is more akin today to urban gang warfare for 'turf', drugs, protection, extortion, etc, etc.
I really must stop reading these threads
I spent 9 years out of my 13 in the Army in Ulster as a specialist. I am also the son of a Northern Irish Catholic.
I have read this thread and as usual most of it is ill informed ****e, sorry.
I would comment that what annoys me is that in the bars of Boston and NY people who are 3rd and 4th generation Irish descent collect for 'the bhoys' or 'the cause'. I nearly got filled in, in Las Vegas last September in the bar Nine Fine Irishmen in my hotel New York, New York. I commented to three of these guys who were banging on about 'the cause' WTF did they know as they:
a) Had never been to Ireland, let alone NI. They were from fecking Altanta !!
b) Were at best 4th Generation.
c) Watching Patriot Games was not a mandate for political activism.
When I pointed out what I did in the Army he called me a murderer !!!!!.
And please dont drag the fecking Kennedy's into this. They succeeded 'despite' being Irish Catholics. Subsequent acts by a lesser memeber of the family is just bandwagon jumping cos he couldn't be like his big brothers.
Also please dont parallel 9/11 with a freedom struggle that has gone on for centuries. Acts of random terrorism no matter what there scale against the U.S. are totally different from Northern Ireland, end of.
The RA will never go a away. Same as the UDA or the UVF. It is not about 'the struggle' any more, it is more akin today to urban gang warfare for 'turf', drugs, protection, extortion, etc, etc.
I really must stop reading these threads
18 March 2005, 11:14 AM
#41
again i dont know how true in context it all is (and relevance to this thread) but what fooked me off that i dont want to have or hear anything to do NI irrelevant of how a minority it might be, was seeing on the tv, the parents of one religion spitting at the children of the other religion as they walked through 'their turf' to get to school...whether i clearly have no clue about any facts its clearly wrong full stop...
*flamesuit on*
*flamesuit on*
18 March 2005, 11:26 AM
#42
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It does happen, but even more so when it suits for the cameras to be there. Give someone a camera to point and you will have a world full of actors and extras.
18 March 2005, 11:57 AM
#43
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[QUOTE=daiscooby]
And please dont drag the fecking Kennedy's into this. They succeeded 'despite' being Irish Catholics. Subsequent acts by a lesser memeber of the family is just bandwagon jumping cos he couldn't be like his big brothers.
i'm interested in your post daiscooby. i'm under the impression - rightly or wrongly - that the kennedys did the most in post-war america to develop the romantic myth of irish roots (that you clearly fell victim to) and manipulate it for political ends. ie to cement their own political base in massachussetts & illinois. in effect, turning the irish-american constituency into the powerful and vocal force that it became, sympathetic 'struggle baggage' post-60s and all.
i'd say this has a great deal of relevance to how the irish question has been viewed in the US - up until most recently. would you agree?
And please dont drag the fecking Kennedy's into this. They succeeded 'despite' being Irish Catholics. Subsequent acts by a lesser memeber of the family is just bandwagon jumping cos he couldn't be like his big brothers.
i'm interested in your post daiscooby. i'm under the impression - rightly or wrongly - that the kennedys did the most in post-war america to develop the romantic myth of irish roots (that you clearly fell victim to) and manipulate it for political ends. ie to cement their own political base in massachussetts & illinois. in effect, turning the irish-american constituency into the powerful and vocal force that it became, sympathetic 'struggle baggage' post-60s and all.
i'd say this has a great deal of relevance to how the irish question has been viewed in the US - up until most recently. would you agree?
18 March 2005, 12:11 PM
#44
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[QUOTE=Holy Ghost]
And please dont drag the fecking Kennedy's into this. They succeeded 'despite' being Irish Catholics. Subsequent acts by a lesser memeber of the family is just bandwagon jumping cos he couldn't be like his big brothers.
i'm interested in your post daiscooby. i'm under the impression - rightly or wrongly - that the kennedys did the most in post-war america to develop the romantic myth of irish roots (that you clearly fell victim to) and manipulate it for political ends. ie to cement their own political base in massachussetts & illinois. in effect, turning the irish-american constituency into the powerful and vocal force that it became, sympathetic 'struggle baggage' post-60s and all.
i'd say this has a great deal of relevance to how the irish question has been viewed in the US - up until most recently. would you agree?
To a certain extent they used and fostered the 'struggling Irish in America' but only to rally the normally split and traditionally appathetic Irish vote in America. The WASP's ( white anglo saxon protestants ) formed the mainstay of the political establishment and industrial clout ( and still do ). The Kennedy's were the first and last to break this monoploy in terms of descent and religion to reach the Oval Office in modern times, but only by courting a lot of other areas than fond remembrance of the Emerald Isle. Please ignore the born again Paddy, Bill Clinton
Only the sad figure of Ted Kennedy jumped on the modern 'struggle' bandwagon to flag a flawed and hopeless mission to be the 3rd Kenenedy brother to gain political success.
The 'struggle' amongst modern American Irish is almost like going to confession on a Saturday morning or Mass on a Sunday. It a perceived legacy of duty. Oh the joy in the O'Casey's household each time a ginger headed child is born to be called Sean ( my name ) or Aisling
Originally Posted by daiscooby
And please dont drag the fecking Kennedy's into this. They succeeded 'despite' being Irish Catholics. Subsequent acts by a lesser memeber of the family is just bandwagon jumping cos he couldn't be like his big brothers.
i'm interested in your post daiscooby. i'm under the impression - rightly or wrongly - that the kennedys did the most in post-war america to develop the romantic myth of irish roots (that you clearly fell victim to) and manipulate it for political ends. ie to cement their own political base in massachussetts & illinois. in effect, turning the irish-american constituency into the powerful and vocal force that it became, sympathetic 'struggle baggage' post-60s and all.
i'd say this has a great deal of relevance to how the irish question has been viewed in the US - up until most recently. would you agree?
Only the sad figure of Ted Kennedy jumped on the modern 'struggle' bandwagon to flag a flawed and hopeless mission to be the 3rd Kenenedy brother to gain political success.
The 'struggle' amongst modern American Irish is almost like going to confession on a Saturday morning or Mass on a Sunday. It a perceived legacy of duty. Oh the joy in the O'Casey's household each time a ginger headed child is born to be called Sean ( my name ) or Aisling
18 March 2005, 12:19 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by daiscooby
To a certain extent they used and fostered the 'struggling Irish in America' but only to rally the normally split and traditionally appathetic Irish vote in America. The WASP's ( white anglo saxon protestants ) formed the mainstay of the political establishment and industrial clout ( and still do ). The Kennedy's were the first and last to break this monoploy in terms of descent and religion to reach the Oval Office in modern times, but only by courting a lot of other areas than fond remembrance of the Emerald Isle. Please ignore the born again Paddy, Bill Clinton
Only the sad figure of Ted Kennedy jumped on the modern 'struggle' bandwagon to flag a flawed and hopeless mission to be the 3rd Kenenedy brother to gain political success.
The 'struggle' amongst modern American Irish is almost like going to confession on a Saturday morning or Mass on a Sunday. It a perceived legacy of duty. Oh the joy in the O'Casey's household each time a ginger headed child is born to be called Sean ( my name ) or Aisling
Only the sad figure of Ted Kennedy jumped on the modern 'struggle' bandwagon to flag a flawed and hopeless mission to be the 3rd Kenenedy brother to gain political success.
The 'struggle' amongst modern American Irish is almost like going to confession on a Saturday morning or Mass on a Sunday. It a perceived legacy of duty. Oh the joy in the O'Casey's household each time a ginger headed child is born to be called Sean ( my name ) or Aisling
18 March 2005, 12:20 PM
#46
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Buying from MaccyD's supports the IRA, or it used to, as they used to give a percentage of their takings to them. Not sure if they still do this or not. Ive got an Aunt thats married to a Sergeant in the USAF and they avoid MacDonalds at all costs because of this.
18 March 2005, 01:10 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by 555wrx
Buying from MaccyD's supports the IRA, or it used to, as they used to give a percentage of their takings to them. Not sure if they still do this or not. Ive got an Aunt thats married to a Sergeant in the USAF and they avoid MacDonalds at all costs because of this.
S**t. I've been avoiding the wrong fast food joint all these years...
Russ
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