khany

Similar people like you were probably saying this 200 - 300 years ago, religion will never go away.

jasey

I asked God if he existed and I didn't get a reply -So he either doesn't exist or the ****** is ignoring me

TheBigMan

There will be a time, eventually when the all this will be proved nonsense.

Maybe I am arrogant but it really is utter ****e.

However, I do like the morals religion is based on and if it isn't taken to extremes I believe it will always have a place - regardless of whether it's fundamentally a load of horse ****.

Geezer

Nope, I am an agnotsic, erring on the side of atheism. And for the record, my historical background is not Jewish either.

My statement about killing Jews reflects the current state of affairs in the world where Islam and Judaism are at odds. My statement about treating women badly refers to treatment of women in Islamic states and things like arranged marriages which still go on over here (admittedly Islam is not the only religion to continue this despicable practice)

So why is the Islamic version of the Old testament any more likely to be accurate than the Jewish one, or a modern one? I mean, Mohammed lived in the 7th century, several thousand years after the events depicted in the Old Testament, so he is no more likely to know them than you or me.

If he was not a Jew and God spoke to him, why is God more likely to recount an accurate story to him, and not other prophets? Were they less worthy? Was Jesus the black sheep of the family? Could it not be that as someone without a Jewish background he misinterpreted the word of God and so the Quran is fundamentally flawed?

I find all the religions utterly nonsensical, I am not having a dig at Islam here, but the inconsistencies are pretty insurmountable (except for those with blind faith).

Geezer

khany

You cant see the wind, it doesnt speak to you however, you can feel it and you know its there.

jasey

What's farting got to do with God ?

Geezer

You can't feel God though!

Geezer

TheBigMan

Yep, and the world is flat.

Ted Maul

we used to think the world was round

TheBigMan

....and as knowledge increased that theory too was proved incorrect.

OllyK

The Christians would like you to think JC is a historical figure, otherwise they look very silly. Unfortunately outside the gospels written up to a century or more after JC's supposed death, there is very little to substantiate his existence. At best it seems to be a story based on the lives of 3 or 4 rabbis covering a century or so mixed in with quite a bit of pagan mythology particularly the egyptian gos Osris.

Have a read of these for a bit of background:
http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html
http://mama.indstate.edu/users/nizra...efutation.html

OllyK

Wrong?? It needs a little bit of refining at relativistic velocities (thank you Einstein) I'll give you, but 99% of the time Newtonian physics still holds true.

OllyK

Hate to say it but the existence of a god is your claim, you have to prove it.

TheBigMan

...and until that day, a big bloke with a beard, looking over us in laughable.

Do ants have a god, Cats, Dolphins?? We are no different to them?? Yes, more articulate but fundamentally we ar biological and, quite frankly our **** still stinks.

Only a human could come up with religion to try and gain some pathetic grip on things they can't explain.

OllyK

Seeing as you can't disprove anything, I don't see that happening. People have believed without evidence (hence the term faith) for thousands of years, I am sure they will continue to do so.

The Muslims, Jews and Xians have to realise of course they are one step away from becoming athiests, they only have 1 god left to reject and they are there. When they stop to think why they reject all the other gods, they may then realise why I reject theirs (paraphrased from a far greater philosopher than I)

TheBigMan

As I said in time it will "fade out".

Religion seems to be a fashion that has lasted too long. It'll only take one event to prove it's all shat.

khany

To try and answers your questions above Geezer i will try and explian the best I can. Firslty i am a muslim but i am no islamic scholar just a normal british born in the UK brought up in a muslim family so probably cannot provide you with the detailed answers you require but i will do my best.

Historically, prior to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there was not much hostility between Jews and Muslims, apart from some occasional local tribal conflicts. The Jews, however, had been subjected to many persecutions at the hand of the Christians for a mixture of religious, racial, and social reasons. This deeply-rooted hatred of the Jews by the Christians, became known as "anti-semitism".

So, by the commonality of values and history up to the 20th century, it would appear, that, if there were to be a deep rift between the three Abrahamic religions, it would have been the Judeo-Islamic belief in One God, against the Christians, who would be seen by both the Jews and the Muslims as idolaters and historical enemies of them both. Then how did it come about that Jews and Christians had joined together against the Muslims in a "Judeo-Christian Tradition"?

The reason for this seeming paradox, is that the term "Judeo-Christian", has little to do with religion or past history. It is a late 20th century political phenomenon. "Judeo-Christianity" is a mixture of American geo-political ambitions with Israeli Zionism, justified by references to the Bible by some Evangelical Christians. And the reasons the "Judeo-Christians" see Islam as the enemy is not religious, but political. Politicians need an enemy, because hatred and fear of an enemy helps them to generate popular support for themselves. The desire of the Israeli and American politicians to dominate the Middle East makes Islam an ideal enemy, because this gives them justification for their wars. The "Judeo-Christian values" are not the values of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, but just another political ideology used to justify crimes against person and property by politicians.

You are right this does go on espicially in 'so-called' Islamic states....however i do stress to you this is a cultural thing, in true Islam the women has to give her total uninfluenced consent to marrige, forced marriges are not allowed. Treating women as inferior is also a misconception of what Islam teaches and thoes that do it in the name of Islam are grossley incorrect.

I have not read the jewish version of the old testament or the modern day one just what has been revealed in the Quran so i am in no position really to compare the three in totallity, i suppose it comes down to our version is the true word of God where as the others arent and vice versa depending on if you are a Christian or Jew.

We believe as muslims that throughout mankind God sent prophets to convey his message which was the same to all prophets but over time, mankind strayed away from the truth and needed reminding. We also believe that there will be no prophet after Mohammed, we also believe like the Christians that Jesus will return.

OllyK

It's a faith, religion never has had any evidence to support it, indeed it doesn't need any. You can't disprove an omnipotent god as he can just change the rules to suit himself.

Critical thinking needs to be promoted in schools, which need to be secular, however all religions should be taught from a neutral standpoint and the logical inconsitencies pointed out.

I find it very hard to believe that anybody can truely read the bible, cover to cover and still believe in the Judeo / Christian god afterwards.

TheBigMan

It cannot be proved - however in time it can be proved wrong.

Also - I do not feel that religion should be taught in schools at all. There are more important things to worry about.

jasey

Khany - You're making it more complex than it is.


The Arabs have the Oil and the Yanks want it

Jap2Scrap

Agreed. School isn't the place for religion.

Look at last week's example of when school meets religion. It doesn't work.

Churches/Mosques/Synagogues are for religion. School is for education.

khany

Yes that is the crux of it....but the Yanks cant be seen as stealing it you see as that would look very bad. Instead they have to be seen as doing good by introducing democracy and spreading freedom and behind the scenes taking the oil

TheBigMan

Religion for home. Allow parents to decide how to brainwash their children.

At school, a moral study - maybe touching upon certain elements of religions however non religious specifics.

We don't want our youth growing into hypocrits either!!

OllyK

The existence of god is a non-falsifiable hypothesis - period. You could prove the existence of god by having him appear to everybody, but you can never disprove him, if you think you can feel free to suggest a test that could be used.

All you can do is promote critical thinking, show the weakness in all religion and hope that people see it for what it really is.

OllyK

School is not the place to "practise" your religion, it is very much the place to educate children about ALL religions and the inherent logical fallacies within them however.

jasey

Your not including the Jedi-Religion in that sweeping generalisation I hope - Use the Force Olly

OllyK

I don't know much about it, but if it is based on having faith in a supreme creator then yup - it's included. From what I do know it would seem to be closer to "Yellow bamboo" - now that is funny!

khany

Hi Olly....I take your point you do need evidence to support a claim although this very fundamntal we take for granted is currently being debated upon in Parliment under the new terrorist act. In fact we may be able to lock people up on the notion he/she might comit an act of terrorism in the future....rather like Time cops....minority report styleee

Anyway....in reading the Quran you will find such detailed information regarding topics which in that time no man would know about in any detail only God, that is our proof...the Quran is our proof of the exsistance of God.

If your intereseted or curios some videos and info here where scientists have examined the Quran.

http://www.islam-guide.com/truth.htm

Regards

Turbohot

5 pages filled in a day and a half!
Plenty of Muslims here!

TheBigMan

Yeah, I think you are right on that. These people will use any and all means to argue you cannot prove it wrong. Let's hope people just develop and, basically wake up.