gso

Leslie

Fair enough Wurzel!

Les

Petem95

Zoo had some quality religious jokes in recently, I cant remember all of them, but heres a few:

The ultimate Jewish dilema: free pork!

What do you tell a Muslim women with 2 black eyes? Nothing, her husbands told her twice already..

Bush and Bin Laden are watching Star Trek, and Bin Laden comments "I see white people, chinese people, black people, jewish people, yet there are no Muslims?"

Bush responds "well you see Bin Laden, its set in the future!"

Geezer

Unrelated to this thread really, but not worth one on it's own.....

Moses,
Why do the Jews call god Jehovah and Muslims call it Alla? The old testament is the same for both religions, you have admitted that Muslims and Jews are pretty much the same thing, so why the different name?

Geezer

khany

The Quranic verse quoted is non-exsistent.

The real verse 9:11 is regarding charity and prayer.

khany

Geezer god has many names in Islam Allah being one of them, Jews do not call God Jehovah, its Jehovahs Witnesses. The reson being the following:

"JWs believe that God is not a triune God, but only "Jehovah God" (Let God Be True, pp. 100-101); they teach that Trinitarianism is a belief in three gods, and thereby, Satan-inspired polytheism. Rutherford wrote: "... sincere persons who want to know the true God and serve him find it a bit difficult to love and worship a complicated, freakish-looking, three-headed God. The clergy who inject such ideas will contradict themselves in the very next breath by stating that God made man in his own image; for certainly no one has ever seen a three-headed human creature" (Let God Be True, 2nd ed., pp. 101-102)"

Geezer, Christianity , Judaism and Islam are closely related religions in terms of belief but have key very important differences which are the following:

1. The difference between Judaism and the other two religions is that it is restricted to one racial group - the Jews, while the other two are not restricted to any particular racial group. The difference between Judaism and Christianity is that the Jews believe that God is whatever created the Universe, and its shape or image is unknown, while the Christians believe that God has a human shape, that Jesus is his son, and that Jesus is also God, and that God is the Holy Trinity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost).

2. The difference between Christianity and the other two religions is that the Christians believe that God has a human shape, that Jesus is his son, and that Jesus is also God, and that God is the Holy Trinity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost), while Jews and Muslims believe that God is whatever created the Universe, and has no shape or image. The difference between Christianity and Judaism is that Christianity is a universal religions, while Judaism is restricted to one racial group - the Jews.

3. The difference between Islam and Judaism is that Islam is a universal religions, while Judaism is restricted to one racial group - the Jews. The difference between Islam and Christianity is that Muslims believe that God is whatever created the Universe, and has no shape or image, while the Christians believe that God has a human shape, that Jesus is his son, and that Jesus is also God, and that God is the Holy Trinity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost).

Hope that has cleared it up for you.

Regards

Ted Maul

wrong.

jews aren't a race, they are a religion. you can convert to judaism no matter what race you are. a yeminite jew and a russian jew share no common racial link, but they are both jewish.

Geezer

Sort of, except for one glaring problem. The Jews are not a racial group, they are a religion, nothing more. They are just a collection of people who share a common belief. The people in the area of the middle east where Judaism originated are Caucasian like you and me (I am assuming you are not Negroid or Mongoloid).

Therefore, Judaism is not for one racial group anymore than Christianity or Islam is. In fact, there is a strong community of Jews in Ethiopia, supposedly where the ark of the covenant is kept, and they are Negroid.

Still the question remains about the origins though. Islam and Judaism essentially worhsip the same God, but there is no mention of Islam before Mohammed comes along in the 7th century, so what did Muslims call themselves before that and when did the split in defintion of God come?

Geezer

Ted Maul

Judaism came first, before Islam and Christianity. or put it another way, Judaism got it wrong first..

khany

Judaism is, to be sure, a universal religion but it is a universal religion lived through a particular people. There's the rub; those singles willing to examine Judaism as a meaningful option rarely figure that identification with the Jewish people is essential.

Judaism claims special status for the Jews as the chosen people - a status which cannot be acquired except through birth and which makes a Jew superior to any non-Jew (goyim) whatever their beliefs.

Geezer

But then there are very few 'real' Jews left. Judaism obviously excepts anyone into it's fold, the same as the others.

Still waiting for someone to explain what happened between the end of the old testament and Mohammed coming along. Where were all the Muslims then?

Geezer

khany

Before the birth of Islam, there was no political unity in the arabian peninsula. The nomadic tribes of the region subscribed to a primitive religion of naturism, whereby they attributed spirits to inanimate objects such as stones and trees. They had no formal priesthood but, when in need of advice, consulted soothsayers who would respond with brief, enigmatic oracular utterances.
Within Makkah itself tribes worshipped idols placed around and over the Kaaba. As the trade routes of the arabian peninsula grew in importance in the fourth century AD, towns developed, especially along the west and east coasts. Among these towns was Makkah, made up of a number of tribal groups, the most important of which was the Quraysh tribe. It was from the Quraysh that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was descended and Islam as a religion was revealed hence the followers of Islam, Muslims became known.

Geezer

So Mohammed was a Jew?

Geezer

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Well there you go it is official!! Jews think they are better than everybody else!!!

khany

He was a prophet of God and was an Arab.

OllyK

The big difference between the Judaism, Islam and Xianity IMHO is prophets. The Jews are still waiting, the Xians have JC (who I am still waiting for preacha to prove actually existed here) and the Muslims believe JC was a prophet, but only to fortell the coming of the true prophet Mohamed.

Oh and I believe it was in Genesis 1:26 "And God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness." so that bit about only Xians thinking god had form is cobblers as well.

TheBigMan

Religion is booolaarks.

In fact no, scrap that. Religion is designed to give people a set of moral guidelines in life. It's people that have gone way OTT with it that have given religion a bad name.

Religion does not cause wars - people taking it way too far (thus losing the whole concept) are what causes wars.....and **** threads like this.

Ted Maul

oops, wrong again..

you can convert, very hard, takes 7 years!, BUT, the converted are considered extra holy by jews as they have undergone the conversion process and were not just born into it.

Geezer

But the original Jews are all Arabs anyway. There was no special race in the middle east 5 odd thousand years ago. Judaism was a religion that sprung up out of the local population.

So, if Mohammed was not a Jew, and he didn't appear until the 7th century, how does the Koran (Quran, whatever) have the same stories and prophets and the old testament? Either he was a Jew, or he hijacked another religion to use a power base to gain influence in the region and bolster his new religion (probably much like the Chrsitians did).

Geezer

khany

You learn something everyday Ted, so why does it take 7 years any more info or link you can point me to?

Brendan Hughes

Why not? Jesus was.

Ted Maul

7 years for orthodox, 1 year for reform/progressive. different 'sects' have different rules, and if you convert the reform way, you are not jewsih according to orthodox. dont know where you would look, my comments above are just what I've picked up over the years. had a look on google and got

http://www.convert.org/index.html

TheBigMan

Jesus?!?!

Jesus??

God??

ITS ALL BOLLOX!!!

Amazing in this day and age that people still believe in all this tripe.

Science has, through out history been proved correct. Religion never has - and never will......cos it's simply not true.

Geezer

Jesus is a historical figure, it's what Christians claim him to be that is contested.

I agree that bit is bollox.

Geezer

khany

The Quran was revelaed to Mohammed through archangel gabriel in a cave in mount Hira near Mecca. As Muslims we believe this to be the true word of God, therefore there are many references to the life and times of Isah pbuh (Jesus) and Musa pbuh (Moses) as in the Quran god reminds mankind of the divine message sent through prophets before Mohammed pbuh.

So to answer your question, as Muslims we believe the Quran is the word of God....not Mohammed himself, he was a chosen prophet through which god delivered the message including the stories and refrences to the bible and Torah.

Regards

Geezer

That's all well and good, but the old testament talks of the Jews as being the chosen people etc., so if God speaks to Mohammed are you saying that suddenly he has done a u turn and that they are no longer his chosen people?

Is God admitting he is wrong? A fallible God?

"Look Mohammed, I said a lot of things I regret, and now I'd like to set things straight. Go and tell everyone to kill the Jews and treat their women badly and hopefully no one will notice"

Doesn't sound very likely does it?

Geezer

Ted Maul

Newton 'proved' that Force = Mass x Acceleration, but this was proved wrong later..

personally I'm agnostic, and I think anyone who doesn't contemplate the notion of religion with some merit is as misguided as the religious

khany

You are presuming that we as Muslims believe what is written in todays version of the old Testament as the true word of God???????

We do not....therefore we do not believe God said the Jews are the chosen people.

Anyone who believes that there is one God and prophet Mohammed is the messenger of God, is a Muslim.

Dont know which Quran you have got ure sources from regards to kill all jews and treat their women badly as it does not say that in the Quran.

I take it you are Jewish Geezer?

khany

This reaction is called Atheist Arrogance, how can you say with certainty 'there is no God' and feel that others should join you in the 'reality-based community' ?

TheBigMan

PMSL.

In 200 or 300 years when all this crap has been finally proved wrong and the numpties with sod all else in their lives all have nervous breakdowns.