Whens the engine up to temp?
16 February 2005, 06:00 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by olliecampbell
Im surprised noone has done a gearbox temp sensor, but i suppose that would be a bit hard as theres no way of getting into the gearbox.
16 February 2005, 11:45 PM
#32
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Did a test on the way home from work this morning
@ 1.3 miles the car showed normal water temp.
@ 1.4 miles the oil gauge registered 50c
@ 2.0 miles the oil was 70c
@ 3.1 miles the oil was 80c
@ 5.4 miles the oil was 90c where i stays really unless i'm on the motorway or booting it. The most i've ever seen was 105c on a really hot day with the foot to the floor
This test was done in 30 and 40 limits under 3k and off boost
@ 1.3 miles the car showed normal water temp.
@ 1.4 miles the oil gauge registered 50c
@ 2.0 miles the oil was 70c
@ 3.1 miles the oil was 80c
@ 5.4 miles the oil was 90c where i stays really unless i'm on the motorway or booting it. The most i've ever seen was 105c on a really hot day with the foot to the floor
This test was done in 30 and 40 limits under 3k and off boost
@ 1.6 miles the car showed normal water temp.
@ 1.7 miles the oil gauge registered 50c
@ 2.1 miles the oil was 60c
@ 2.8 miles the oil was 70c
@ 3.7 miles the oil was 80c
@ 8.6 miles it finally hit 90c
This test was done on the same route as the first test and keeping to the same speeds as the first test. In fairness - if i wasn't doing this test, i would have started using the power once i'd hit 70c.
17 February 2005, 03:28 PM
#33
The oil temperature is the important figure and the oil manufacturers will tell you not to stress an engine with less than 80c oil temperature.
Different cars heat up at different rates. New age may warm up faster than classic. Road conditions, the route and ambient temperatures all play a part. As already stated the oil will take 10 mins to operating temperature after the water is showing normal.
I can do a commuter run early morning, mid winter, some 30mph and 40 mph limits followed by 60mph and a dual carriageway with speeds up to an indicated 80mph, all easy driving off boost. 17 miles and on the cold wet or slushy days the oil is still not at 80C. In the summer it can take 10 mins and 80C is reached in the first 6 or 7 miles on the same journey.
An oil temp guage costs from £50-£100.
If I were buying a secondhand Subaru and the owner thrashed it after 4 miles "because everything is up to operating temperature" i would realise there were major gaps in his mechanical understanding and sympathy and walk away.
Different cars heat up at different rates. New age may warm up faster than classic. Road conditions, the route and ambient temperatures all play a part. As already stated the oil will take 10 mins to operating temperature after the water is showing normal.
I can do a commuter run early morning, mid winter, some 30mph and 40 mph limits followed by 60mph and a dual carriageway with speeds up to an indicated 80mph, all easy driving off boost. 17 miles and on the cold wet or slushy days the oil is still not at 80C. In the summer it can take 10 mins and 80C is reached in the first 6 or 7 miles on the same journey.
An oil temp guage costs from £50-£100.
If I were buying a secondhand Subaru and the owner thrashed it after 4 miles "because everything is up to operating temperature" i would realise there were major gaps in his mechanical understanding and sympathy and walk away.
17 February 2005, 08:57 PM
#35
I don't doubt your figures. Some cars warm up quicker than others and like I said, it depends on the type of running and the ambient temperature. The engine is a pretty heavy lump of aluminium and no way is it fully warmed through at this time of year after four miles at normal driving speeds, off boost.
17 February 2005, 10:32 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by chrisp
17 February 2005, 11:53 PM
#37
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Your welcome to join me at 7:30am harvey when i drive to work
The car had been parked up from 7pm the previous evening. The weather was damn cold and the car had a complementry layer of frost. I drove off boost and under 3k and didn't go over 45mph. The gauges i have are Defi so i think the test was pretty fair across the board.
You can see in the second test it took 0.8 miles longer to get to 70c and 0.6 miles to get to 80c and then 3.2 miles longer to hit 90c, so the weather has obviously had some effect.
In fairness though - the first test was probably done at around 12c (7am) so the second test was only 12c behind (estimated) so i think the results are probably fair.
Anyway - i shall repeat the test in the morning and see what happens
The car had been parked up from 7pm the previous evening. The weather was damn cold and the car had a complementry layer of frost. I drove off boost and under 3k and didn't go over 45mph. The gauges i have are Defi so i think the test was pretty fair across the board.
You can see in the second test it took 0.8 miles longer to get to 70c and 0.6 miles to get to 80c and then 3.2 miles longer to hit 90c, so the weather has obviously had some effect.
In fairness though - the first test was probably done at around 12c (7am) so the second test was only 12c behind (estimated) so i think the results are probably fair.
Anyway - i shall repeat the test in the morning and see what happens
17 February 2005, 11:57 PM
#39
Scooby Senior
.............what a fcukin nugget 
I read your post harvey and saw you doubted my figures so wrote all that above. I've just re-read your post and saw you don't doubt me after all
Brun - must stop speed reading
I read your post harvey and saw you doubted my figures so wrote all that above. I've just re-read your post and saw you don't doubt me after all
Brun - must stop speed reading
18 February 2005, 12:00 AM
#41
Scooby Senior
engine is a pretty heavy lump of aluminium and no way is it fully warmed through
18 February 2005, 05:29 PM
#42
Scooby Senior
Here's today's test. It wasn't frosty this morning which i think shows in the test compared to yesterdays
Yesterdays test followed by todays
@ 1.6 miles the car showed normal water temp.
@ 1.7 miles the oil gauge registered 50c
@ 2.1 miles the oil was 60c
@ 2.8 miles the oil was 70c
@ 3.7 miles the oil was 80c
@ 8.6 miles it finally hit 90c
@ 1.2 miles the car showed normal water temp.
@ 1.3 miles the oil gauge registered 50c
@ 1.8 miles the oil was 60c
@ 2.6 miles the oil was 70c
@ 3.6 miles the oil was 80c
@ 8.3 miles it finally hit 90c
Yesterdays test followed by todays
@ 1.6 miles the car showed normal water temp.
@ 1.7 miles the oil gauge registered 50c
@ 2.1 miles the oil was 60c
@ 2.8 miles the oil was 70c
@ 3.7 miles the oil was 80c
@ 8.6 miles it finally hit 90c
@ 1.2 miles the car showed normal water temp.
@ 1.3 miles the oil gauge registered 50c
@ 1.8 miles the oil was 60c
@ 2.6 miles the oil was 70c
@ 3.6 miles the oil was 80c
@ 8.3 miles it finally hit 90c
18 February 2005, 06:13 PM
#48
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Quite often with the warm up at the start of the journey and 2 miles or so cool down at the end I don't get chance to extend (I love that term) my scoob, maybe for about 100 meters if I'm lucky..!!! (Then the first, and only spool up isn't great..!!) 
.
It's no wonder I use so much optimax, it's those de-tours I take to get a bit..!!!
Oh the joys...
Jason
.It's no wonder I use so much optimax, it's those de-tours I take to get a bit..!!!
Oh the joys...
Jason
18 February 2005, 06:29 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by jowl
Never thought I'd be so please the girlfriend lives 20 miles away.
Gives me a nice time to warm up before I get there
Gives me a nice time to warm up before I get there
19 February 2005, 07:00 PM
#50
Hi Brun: I accepted your observations as being correct but I know that it takes my engines far longer to warm right through which is the important point where you can start to drive more vigerously. Not just on these two scoobies but on numerous previous cars.
I am measuring the sump oil temperature whereas you have to be measuring the localised temperature to see these readings in normal driving. I guess your sender is on the back of the block on the drivers side?
The localised heat will always be higher than the sump temperature but it is the sump oil temperature that the moving components will see at the beginning of the oils journey round the engine.
I am measuring the sump oil temperature whereas you have to be measuring the localised temperature to see these readings in normal driving. I guess your sender is on the back of the block on the drivers side?
The localised heat will always be higher than the sump temperature but it is the sump oil temperature that the moving components will see at the beginning of the oils journey round the engine.
19 February 2005, 07:51 PM
#51
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I would always let the car warm up for a 2-3 mins to get the oil circulating and temp registering. Then wait for the temp guage to rise and sit for a few mins (bout half way up the guage) before giving it some boost.
Only wind her up a bit after a couple of miles of driving. The cooling down period after is almost as important as the warm up! Dont forget
Only wind her up a bit after a couple of miles of driving. The cooling down period after is almost as important as the warm up! Dont forget
19 February 2005, 08:58 PM
#53
20 February 2005, 11:09 AM
#54
Scooby Senior
Cheers Harvey - you're quite right, i have my sender under the intercooler on the drivers side. Do you fancy doing a similar test to mine with your gauges? It would be nice to see the differences. It never actually crossed my mind that readings would be different in different parts of the engine.
Dammit Tony - i'm never gonna use the turbo again on the way to work if i follow your rules Looks like i'm gonna have to drive to long way round to work to have myself some fun
Dammit Tony - i'm never gonna use the turbo again on the way to work if i follow your rules
Looks like i'm gonna have to drive to long way round to work to have myself some fun
20 February 2005, 11:29 AM
#55
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I boot mine when the oil (from an upper gallery like Brun) reaches 80C, I will use a little boost and revs say 0.5 bar and 4000 RPM when the temperature is between 70 and 80. However, I don't keep an engine long enough to know the long term consequences
20 February 2005, 11:34 AM
#56
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Whilst were on the suject of warm up/down, I understand why the cool down is so important for the turbo charger but how come this dosen't seem to bother TDi engines, theres certainly enough of them on the road..?
I suppose it's because they don't run so much pressure/boost/RPM..?
Jason
I suppose it's because they don't run so much pressure/boost/RPM..?
Jason
20 February 2005, 11:16 PM
#58
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what would you's suggest to someone that only has 3.5 miles to drive to get to work?
i never really boot it, jus cos there's no time or space to.
i've got a 52 wrx, no oil gauges yet.
i never really boot it, jus cos there's no time or space to.
i've got a 52 wrx, no oil gauges yet.
21 February 2005, 02:13 AM
#60
Brun: Following our exchanges I observed what happened yesterday with an ambient temp 4C. The route was 2mls at 30mph with one roundabout. A short 40mph and one roundabout followed by 60 limit for a further 4.8 mls, including three roundabouts and a little queuing at one. Toal was 7mls and sump temp was 70C.
On colder days with rain or slush the temperature gets to the mid 70s after 18mls with the same route followed by dual carriageway and cruising off boost up to an indicated 80mph where the commuter traffic permits.
I had an oil sender in the sump plug but that was unsatisfactory as it was a pain with frequent oil changes and I broke it in the end. The solution was to remove the sump and get the sender brazed in place so it is now totally reliable.
"what would you's suggest to someone that only has 3.5 miles to drive to get to work?"
As your local labour council will be spending your taxes on cycle ways, with nicely coloured paint so you know what they are, why not invest in a pushbike. Alternatively get a mate to pick you up, car sharing is environmentally friendly and very P.C. The fewer cold starts you have the better so you could have a banger for short journies and dirty jobs.
Even TDIs should be run off boost for a couple of miles prior to shutdown if they have been caned, if you want them to last. BTW, I tampered with my J reg Tipo TDI, just a bit more fuel, a bit of boost and minor porting. As the boost guage was going off the O/E instument scale I decided to fit an after market 7 colour boost guage out of curiosity. No wonder it gives hot hatches a surprise. 2 bar from 2,100 rpm to 4,300rpm if you need it.
JB : Is your engine telling you something?
My attitude, particularly for high power engines is the fewer cold starts and the less thermal gradient during operation the better.
On colder days with rain or slush the temperature gets to the mid 70s after 18mls with the same route followed by dual carriageway and cruising off boost up to an indicated 80mph where the commuter traffic permits.
I had an oil sender in the sump plug but that was unsatisfactory as it was a pain with frequent oil changes and I broke it in the end. The solution was to remove the sump and get the sender brazed in place so it is now totally reliable.
"what would you's suggest to someone that only has 3.5 miles to drive to get to work?"
As your local labour council will be spending your taxes on cycle ways, with nicely coloured paint so you know what they are, why not invest in a pushbike. Alternatively get a mate to pick you up, car sharing is environmentally friendly and very P.C. The fewer cold starts you have the better so you could have a banger for short journies and dirty jobs.
Even TDIs should be run off boost for a couple of miles prior to shutdown if they have been caned, if you want them to last. BTW, I tampered with my J reg Tipo TDI, just a bit more fuel, a bit of boost and minor porting. As the boost guage was going off the O/E instument scale I decided to fit an after market 7 colour boost guage out of curiosity. No wonder it gives hot hatches a surprise. 2 bar from 2,100 rpm to 4,300rpm if you need it.
JB : Is your engine telling you something?
My attitude, particularly for high power engines is the fewer cold starts and the less thermal gradient during operation the better.